The World's #1 Russian, Ukrainian & Eastern European Discussion & Information Forum - RUA!

This Is the Premier Discussion Forum on the Net for Information and Discussion about Russia, Ukraine, Eastern Europe and the Former Soviet Union. Discuss Culture, Politics, Travelling, Language, International Relationships and More. Chat with Travellers, Locals, Residents and Expats. Ask and Answer Questions about Travel, Culture, Relationships, Applying for Visas, Translators, Interpreters, and More. Give Advice, Read Trip Reports, Share Experiences and Make Friends.

Author Topic: Exceptional: Why the World Needs a Powerful America  (Read 4855 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Manny

  • Moderator
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 19719
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouses Country: Russia
  • Status: Married
  • Trips: 20+
Re: Exceptional: Why the World Needs a Powerful America
« Reply #25 on: October 10, 2015, 02:08:02 AM »
He only likes Obama now because of Obama's epic weakness, which has allowed Russia to do what they are doing. 

See, here we see the same language as he book. What Cheney calls Obama's "weakness" often looks like sensible behaviour.

And here is the other thing: It isn't up to the US to "allow" Russia to do anything. It is exactly that mindset that causes friction between Russia and the US. And why they ignore US opinion.
Read a trip report from North Korea >>here<< - Read a trip report from South Korea, China and Hong Kong >>here<<

Look what the American media makes some people believe:
Putin often threatens to strike US with nuclear weapons.

Offline shakespear

  • Supporting Member
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 8136
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
  • Status: Just Looking
  • Trips: 20+
Re: Exceptional: Why the World Needs a Powerful America
« Reply #26 on: October 10, 2015, 09:21:08 AM »
See, here we see the same language as he book. What Cheney calls Obama's "weakness" often looks like sensible behaviour.

And here is the other thing: It isn't up to the US to "allow" Russia to do anything. It is exactly that mindset that causes friction between Russia and the US. And why they ignore US opinion.

"Sensible behavior" for a European with a laissez-faire view of international tyranny and human rights abuses. 

Lenin, speaking about moving a cause forward, once said: “Probe with a bayonet: if you meet steel, stop. If you meet mush, then push.”  This is all that Putin is doing because of the weak, indecisive foreign policy of the Obama Administration.  Putin doesn't fear the man or fear what he might do because he knows he doesn't have the character or moral fiber to take any serious action.   
"If you obey all the rules, you miss all the fun" - Katharine Hepburn

Offline Manny

  • Moderator
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 19719
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouses Country: Russia
  • Status: Married
  • Trips: 20+
Re: Exceptional: Why the World Needs a Powerful America
« Reply #27 on: October 10, 2015, 09:31:19 AM »
See, here we see the same language as he book. What Cheney calls Obama's "weakness" often looks like sensible behaviour.

And here is the other thing: It isn't up to the US to "allow" Russia to do anything. It is exactly that mindset that causes friction between Russia and the US. And why they ignore US opinion.

"Sensible behavior" for a European with a laissez-faire view of international tyranny and human rights abuses. 

The US is guilty if more international tyranny and human rights abuses than any other nation.

Lenin, speaking about moving a cause forward, once said: “Probe with a bayonet: if you meet steel, stop. If you meet mush, then push.”  This is all that Putin is doing because of the weak, indecisive foreign policy of the Obama Administration.  Putin doesn't fear the man or fear what he might do because he knows he doesn't have the character or moral fiber to take any serious action.

What you don't see (and nor does Cheney) but Putin does, is the US has attempted to appoint itself as world cop. That many countries will disregard that self appointed title cannot be such a surprise.

I doubt that Putin or Russia would "fear" the US whoever you had in there. I think you don't get the Russian mindset about these things. As Putin has pointed out, they wont be lectured by a nation that systematically goes around the world causing unrest, regime change and wars. Nor will they be bullied by US scare tactics.

Not going to change unless you get a sensible president who isn't a warmonger.
Read a trip report from North Korea >>here<< - Read a trip report from South Korea, China and Hong Kong >>here<<

Look what the American media makes some people believe:
Putin often threatens to strike US with nuclear weapons.


Offline Anteros

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 7186
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
  • Status: Just Looking
  • Trips: 1-5
Re: Exceptional: Why the World Needs a Powerful America
« Reply #28 on: October 10, 2015, 11:08:55 AM »
He only likes Obama now because of Obama's epic weakness, which has allowed Russia to do what they are doing. 

See, here we see the same language as he book. What Cheney calls Obama's "weakness" often looks like sensible behaviour.

And here is the other thing: It isn't up to the US to "allow" Russia to do anything. It is exactly that mindset that causes friction between Russia and the US. And why they ignore US opinion.

After WWI chemical weapons were outlawed.  It is up to the UN and NATO to punish the dictator Assad and take him out of power if need be, for using chemical weapons on his own people.  Contrary to your preferred narrative the refugee crisis was not caused by US actions, it was caused by Assad's heinous actions. 

When there is US leadership again you can be sure this situation will be dealt with.   :coffeeread:
Be careful what you wish for, you might get it.

Offline Manny

  • Moderator
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 19719
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouses Country: Russia
  • Status: Married
  • Trips: 20+
Re: Exceptional: Why the World Needs a Powerful America
« Reply #29 on: October 10, 2015, 11:48:38 AM »
It is up to the UN and NATO to punish the dictator Assad and take him out of power if need be,

So, not the US then, as I said.  :coffeeread:

and take him out of power if need be,

Not happening without Russia's agreement. Hard to get used to over the pond perhaps that the US is not calling the shots here.

for using chemical weapons on his own people. 

There seems to be some doubt about that. Rather like WMD of days gone by.

the refugee crisis was not caused by US actions, it was caused by Assad's heinous actions. 

Yes of course.  (:)  Nobody wants to get away from ISIS, its just Assad controlling less than half of Syria isn't it? Read that and see how silly what you said sounds.
Read a trip report from North Korea >>here<< - Read a trip report from South Korea, China and Hong Kong >>here<<

Look what the American media makes some people believe:
Putin often threatens to strike US with nuclear weapons.

Offline Anteros

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 7186
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
  • Status: Just Looking
  • Trips: 1-5
Re: Exceptional: Why the World Needs a Powerful America
« Reply #30 on: October 12, 2015, 09:54:02 AM »
It is up to the UN and NATO to punish the dictator Assad and take him out of power if need be,

So, not the US then, as I said.  :coffeeread:

and take him out of power if need be,

Not happening without Russia's agreement. Hard to get used to over the pond perhaps that the US is not calling the shots here.

for using chemical weapons on his own people. 

There seems to be some doubt about that. Rather like WMD of days gone by.

the refugee crisis was not caused by US actions, it was caused by Assad's heinous actions. 

Yes of course.  (:)  Nobody wants to get away from ISIS, its just Assad controlling less than half of Syria isn't it? Read that and see how silly what you said sounds.

1.  The USA is the leading member of NATO, in case you forgot.  The UN is headquartered in NYC in the USA, and they bow to our political leadership, in case you forgot.  Perhaps I should refresh your memory when you admitted just such, by claiming that the lopsided vote condemning the annexation of Crimea was due to US pressure?

2.  Russia's military is no match for the full-force of the US military.  We just need a real leader to unleash the beast, and we will have it come 2017.  Enjoy the illusion while you can, it won't last long.

3.  Free Syrian rebels took out 24 Russian tanks in quick order, with anti-tank missiles supplied by the United States.  Try as Obama might to avoid a conflict with Russia, it's coming and it's going to make the Afghanistan debacle which caused the fall of the USSR look tame in comparison.   :coffeeread:


http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/did-us-weapons-supplied-to-syrian-rebels-draw-russia-into-the-conflict/ar-AAflcv0?li=BBgzzfc
Be careful what you wish for, you might get it.

Offline shakespear

  • Supporting Member
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 8136
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
  • Status: Just Looking
  • Trips: 20+
Re: Exceptional: Why the World Needs a Powerful America
« Reply #31 on: October 12, 2015, 12:33:49 PM »
3.  Free Syrian rebels took out 24 Russian tanks in quick order, with anti-tank missiles supplied by the United States.  Try as Obama might to avoid a conflict with Russia, it's coming and it's going to make the Afghanistan debacle which caused the fall of the USSR look tame in comparison.   

Wait until a shipment of FIM-92 Stinger missiles arrive.

You won't hear too much about Russian air strikes after that. . . . . . . . . . . .
"If you obey all the rules, you miss all the fun" - Katharine Hepburn

Offline Anteros

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 7186
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
  • Status: Just Looking
  • Trips: 1-5
Re: Exceptional: Why the World Needs a Powerful America
« Reply #32 on: October 12, 2015, 11:02:28 PM »
3.  Free Syrian rebels took out 24 Russian tanks in quick order, with anti-tank missiles supplied by the United States.  Try as Obama might to avoid a conflict with Russia, it's coming and it's going to make the Afghanistan debacle which caused the fall of the USSR look tame in comparison.   

Wait until a shipment of FIM-92 Stinger missiles arrive.

You won't hear too much about Russian air strikes after that. . . . . . . . . . . .

True 'dat!   :laugh:
Be careful what you wish for, you might get it.

Online Markje

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 8552
  • Country: nl
  • Gender: Male
  • MCMLXXIV
    • Mark's unix pages
  • Spouses Country: Crimea
  • Status: Married
  • Trips: 20+
Re: Exceptional: Why the World Needs a Powerful America
« Reply #33 on: October 13, 2015, 02:45:17 AM »
3.  Free Syrian rebels took out 24 Russian tanks in quick order, with anti-tank missiles supplied by the United States.  Try as Obama might to avoid a conflict with Russia, it's coming and it's going to make the Afghanistan debacle which caused the fall of the USSR look tame in comparison.   

Wait until a shipment of FIM-92 Stinger missiles arrive.

You won't hear too much about Russian air strikes after that. . . . . . . . . . . .

True 'dat!   :laugh:
I think we wont see Stinger missiles there, because the USA doesn't want to fight Russia. They want to fight ISIS, but with the option to remove Assad, whilst Russia wants to fight ISIS.

See the distinction? I think Russia's plan is better. Worry about Assad later, when the true terrorists are defeated.
OO===[][]===OO
My first trip to my wife: To Evpatoria!
My road trip to Crimea: Roadtrip to Evpatoria

Offline shakespear

  • Supporting Member
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 8136
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
  • Status: Just Looking
  • Trips: 20+
Re: Exceptional: Why the World Needs a Powerful America
« Reply #34 on: October 13, 2015, 08:14:57 AM »
I think we wont see Stinger missiles there, because the USA doesn't want to fight Russia. They want to fight ISIS, but with the option to remove Assad, whilst Russia wants to fight ISIS.

See the distinction? I think Russia's plan is better. Worry about Assad later, when the true terrorists are defeated.

I think there is a flaw in your thinking. 

USA wants to fight BOTH Assad and ISIS using local liberty seeking patriots.

Russia wants to remove the local liberty seeking patriots, retain Assad and make it so the only enemy to fight is ISIL.

I guess that when the time is right (missile shipment arrived) the US government will announce a formal "no fly" zone for Russian aircraft within Syrian borders.  There will be one warning and then the locals will start shooting Russian airplanes out of the sky.   
"If you obey all the rules, you miss all the fun" - Katharine Hepburn

Online Markje

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 8552
  • Country: nl
  • Gender: Male
  • MCMLXXIV
    • Mark's unix pages
  • Spouses Country: Crimea
  • Status: Married
  • Trips: 20+
Re: Exceptional: Why the World Needs a Powerful America
« Reply #35 on: October 13, 2015, 08:33:48 AM »
I think there is a flaw in your thinking. 

USA wants to fight BOTH Assad and ISIS using local liberty seeking patriots.

There are no local liberty seeking patriots, only terrorists. I think 10+ years of irak, afghanistan, Kuwait, Libya, and now Syria have thought you guys that.

Those countries need a strong dictator-like leader to keep the crazies in check, thats what you still don't get after all this time.
OO===[][]===OO
My first trip to my wife: To Evpatoria!
My road trip to Crimea: Roadtrip to Evpatoria

Offline shakespear

  • Supporting Member
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 8136
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
  • Status: Just Looking
  • Trips: 20+
Re: Exceptional: Why the World Needs a Powerful America
« Reply #36 on: October 13, 2015, 08:39:14 AM »

Those countries need a strong dictator-like leader to keep the crazies in check, thats what you still don't get after all this time.

I can't believe your memory is this short-sighted.

How'd that "strong dictator" work out for your country in 1941-1945?
"If you obey all the rules, you miss all the fun" - Katharine Hepburn

Online Markje

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 8552
  • Country: nl
  • Gender: Male
  • MCMLXXIV
    • Mark's unix pages
  • Spouses Country: Crimea
  • Status: Married
  • Trips: 20+
Re: Exceptional: Why the World Needs a Powerful America
« Reply #37 on: October 13, 2015, 08:41:59 AM »
How'd that "strong dictator" work out for your country in 1941-1945?
Aww man, godwins law. I win.
OO===[][]===OO
My first trip to my wife: To Evpatoria!
My road trip to Crimea: Roadtrip to Evpatoria

Offline shakespear

  • Supporting Member
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 8136
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
  • Status: Just Looking
  • Trips: 20+
Re: Exceptional: Why the World Needs a Powerful America
« Reply #38 on: October 13, 2015, 08:49:59 AM »
Aww man, godwins law. I win.

All humor aside, Assad is a butcher.  I figured Europeans would be sensitive and understand the negative impact such a man can have on humanity.
"If you obey all the rules, you miss all the fun" - Katharine Hepburn

Online Markje

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 8552
  • Country: nl
  • Gender: Male
  • MCMLXXIV
    • Mark's unix pages
  • Spouses Country: Crimea
  • Status: Married
  • Trips: 20+
Re: Exceptional: Why the World Needs a Powerful America
« Reply #39 on: October 13, 2015, 08:54:37 AM »
Aww man, godwins law. I win.

All humor aside, Assad is a butcher.  I figured Europeans would be sensitive and understand the negative impact such a man can have on humanity.
Assad may be a butcher, but people weren't fleeing Syria by the millions when he was in charge, like they do now when ISIS is roaming around.

OO===[][]===OO
My first trip to my wife: To Evpatoria!
My road trip to Crimea: Roadtrip to Evpatoria

Offline shakespear

  • Supporting Member
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 8136
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
  • Status: Just Looking
  • Trips: 20+
Re: Exceptional: Why the World Needs a Powerful America
« Reply #40 on: October 13, 2015, 09:41:05 AM »
Assad may be a butcher, but people weren't fleeing Syria by the millions when he was in charge, like they do now when ISIS is roaming around.

They're fleeing BECAUSE of Assad and his use of chemical weapons on them.  Isis is just icing on the cake. 
"If you obey all the rules, you miss all the fun" - Katharine Hepburn

Offline Maxx

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4164
  • Country: ge
  • Gender: Male
  • Trips: 5-10
Re: Exceptional: Why the World Needs a Powerful America
« Reply #41 on: October 13, 2015, 09:50:55 AM »
Assad may be a butcher, but people weren't fleeing Syria by the millions when he was in charge, like they do now when ISIS is roaming around.

They're fleeing BECAUSE of Assad and his use of chemical weapons on them.  Isis is just icing on the cake.

You are being deceived Shakespear. The same people running the US military and NATO are the same ones in Washington you despise. I am talking about Obama and not known to you his CIA masterminds with their false flag operations (you named one of them) and the(ir) Main Stream Media.

Online andrewfi

  • Supporting Member
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 20730
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
    • Articles About Almost Anything!
Re: Exceptional: Why the World Needs a Powerful America
« Reply #42 on: October 13, 2015, 10:27:00 AM »
Assad may be a butcher, but people weren't fleeing Syria by the millions when he was in charge, like they do now when ISIS is roaming around.

They're fleeing BECAUSE of Assad and his use of chemical weapons on them.  Isis is just icing on the cake.

You don't honestly believe that do you?
A serious matter about which to joke but if that was supposed to be humorous how about using a smiley face or something similar?
...everything ends always well; if it’s still bad, then it’s not the end!

Offline leslied

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1844
  • Country: tr
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouses Country: Ukraine
  • Status: Married
  • Trips: 20+
Re: Exceptional: Why the World Needs a Powerful America
« Reply #43 on: October 13, 2015, 10:37:23 AM »
I guess that when the time is right (missile shipment arrived) the US government will announce a formal "no fly" zone for Russian aircraft within Syrian borders.  There will be one warning and then the locals will start shooting Russian airplanes out of the sky.

Illegal under international law.  Period.  Not that the US cares about international law but if the Russians start supplying Al Quaeda cells in USA with portable SAM missiles what would you think or do?

Syria was peaceful before the west started to foment regime change.  OK Assad was a dictator but he was acting like the whitest angel descended from heaven compared to how Al Nusrah (your terrorists!) behave right now...

Sure as the civil war progressed Assad became more brutal - after all he was fighting for survival against the most brutal foes you can imagine.  I visited Syria several times before this all began.  I live 5 hours drive from the Syrian border. The west has devastated a sovereign nation and shows not the slightest remorse...

Offline Anteros

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 7186
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
  • Status: Just Looking
  • Trips: 1-5
Re: Exceptional: Why the World Needs a Powerful America
« Reply #44 on: October 13, 2015, 10:37:56 AM »
Assad may be a butcher, but people weren't fleeing Syria by the millions when he was in charge, like they do now when ISIS is roaming around.

They're fleeing BECAUSE of Assad and his use of chemical weapons on them.  Isis is just icing on the cake.

Exactly.  Furthermore Russian airstrikes are not hitting ISIS, they are hitting Assad opposition forces.
Be careful what you wish for, you might get it.

Offline Anteros

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 7186
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
  • Status: Just Looking
  • Trips: 1-5
Re: Exceptional: Why the World Needs a Powerful America
« Reply #45 on: October 13, 2015, 10:56:14 AM »
I guess that when the time is right (missile shipment arrived) the US government will announce a formal "no fly" zone for Russian aircraft within Syrian borders.  There will be one warning and then the locals will start shooting Russian airplanes out of the sky.

Illegal under international law.  Period.  Not that the US cares about international law but if the Russians start supplying Al Quaeda cells in USA with portable SAM missiles what would you think or do?

Syria was peaceful before the west started to foment regime change.  OK Assad was a dictator but he was acting like the whitest angel descended from heaven compared to how Al Nusrah (your terrorists!) behave right now...

Sure as the civil war progressed Assad became more brutal - after all he was fighting for survival against the most brutal foes you can imagine.  I visited Syria several times before this all began.  I live 5 hours drive from the Syrian border. The west has devastated a sovereign nation and shows not the slightest remorse...

Illegal under International law?   :ROFL:

This from a person who supports Russia's illegal annexation of Crimea...

My rebuttal to your bolded statement at the end is that the East (Russia) has devastated a sovereign nation as well (Ukraine) and shows not the slightest remorse.

As to the totality of your claims there certainly are two competing narratives, no doubt about that. 
Be careful what you wish for, you might get it.

Offline shakespear

  • Supporting Member
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 8136
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
  • Status: Just Looking
  • Trips: 20+
"If you obey all the rules, you miss all the fun" - Katharine Hepburn

Offline shakespear

  • Supporting Member
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 8136
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
  • Status: Just Looking
  • Trips: 20+
Re: Exceptional: Why the World Needs a Powerful America
« Reply #47 on: October 13, 2015, 11:48:38 AM »
Illegal under international law.  Period.  Not that the US cares about international law but if the Russians start supplying Al Quaeda cells in USA with portable SAM missiles what would you think or do? 

Same things the Russians would do if we provided terrorists within the Russian borders with weaponry.

It was the USA that provided Afgan rebels this type of weaponry and caused Russians defeat in that war.





"If you obey all the rules, you miss all the fun" - Katharine Hepburn

Offline leslied

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1844
  • Country: tr
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouses Country: Ukraine
  • Status: Married
  • Trips: 20+
Re: Exceptional: Why the World Needs a Powerful America
« Reply #48 on: October 13, 2015, 12:25:28 PM »
It was the USA that provided Afgan rebels this type of weaponry and caused Russians defeat in that war.

Yes, you armed the Mujahideen who morphed into the Taliban who demonstrated their gratitude on 9/11...

Offline shakespear

  • Supporting Member
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 8136
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
  • Status: Just Looking
  • Trips: 20+
Re: Exceptional: Why the World Needs a Powerful America
« Reply #49 on: October 13, 2015, 12:27:33 PM »
Yes, you armed the Mujahideen who morphed into the Taliban who demonstrated their gratitude on 9/11...

The Taliban had nothing to do with 9/11.
"If you obey all the rules, you miss all the fun" - Katharine Hepburn


 

 

Registration