The World's #1 Russian, Ukrainian & Eastern European Discussion & Information Forum - RUA!

This Is the Premier Discussion Forum on the Net for Information and Discussion about Russia, Ukraine, Eastern Europe and the Former Soviet Union. Discuss Culture, Politics, Travelling, Language, International Relationships and More. Chat with Travellers, Locals, Residents and Expats. Ask and Answer Questions about Travel, Culture, Relationships, Applying for Visas, Translators, Interpreters, and More. Give Advice, Read Trip Reports, Share Experiences and Make Friends.

Author Topic: Ukraine military doctrine declares Russia as opponent, supports NATO membership  (Read 562 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Online Tom Cat

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5103
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouses Country: Russia
  • Status: Just Looking
  • Trips: 20+
It's kinda hard to grasp which direction Ukraine is heading.
With each new day, they seem to alienate Russia.
In the end Russia will be the country that will most likely take on the task of supporting Ukraine. The west will soon grow tired of giving billions only to see no progress.
I doubt Ukraine will ever overcome the corruption, and have a properly functioning government.

Ukraine military doctrine declares Russia as opponent, supports NATO membership

http://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2015/09/02/2-parties-stay-within-ukraines-governing-coalition
Don't shoot the messenger, links to articles posted, don't necessarily reflect my personal opinion.

Online Tom Cat

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5103
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouses Country: Russia
  • Status: Just Looking
  • Trips: 20+
What exactly is involved for Ukraine to become part of NATO?
At this point in time, I would think the last thing the NATO alliance would want is to defend Ukraine should they provoke all out war.

Ukraine names Russia as ‘military adversary’ in official defense doctrine

https://www.rt.com/news/314131-ukraine-russia-military-adversary/
Don't shoot the messenger, links to articles posted, don't necessarily reflect my personal opinion.

Offline Manny

  • Moderator
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 15247
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouses Country: Russia
  • Status: Married
  • Trips: 20+
Ukraine military doctrine declares Russia as opponent, supports NATO membership

http://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2015/09/02/2-parties-stay-within-ukraines-governing-coalition

How very dishonest of that US news site to use Igor Derbin in a coffin to make any point about Russia. He was killed a few days ago in central Kiev during government and right sector clashes and his death is unconnected to Russia. Typical western media dishonesty.


Online andrewfi

  • Supporting Member
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 16288
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
    • Articles About Almost Anything!
For those with a short memory, just last year it was made clear that Ukraine was not considered as a potential NATO member.

In order for Ukraine go join they would have to be able to provide a couple of things that they can not do.
1. Not be involved in territorial disputes within its borders
2. Spend at least 2% of gdp on 'defence' (yes they spend more on their civil war but the country is, in truth, bankrupt and can not support the 2% level for NATO support.)

The idea is that there's a preexisting condition clause. One can hardly expect to join nato and benefit from the mutual defence part of the treaty for an existing dispute. Of course the impetus for the current administration wanting to join is exactly for that reason. The population of Ukraine consistently poll as wanting to end the civil war imposed upon them and so their support for NATO membership is similarly chimeric - historically Ukraine's populace have not wanted membership and absent the war imposed upon them that is unlikely to have changed.

"For what else is the life of man but a kind of play in which men in various costumes perform until the director motions them offstage?" -Erasmus

Online msmoby

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 6552
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouses Country: Russia
  • Status: Committed
  • Trips: 20+
For those with a short memory, just last year it was made clear that Ukraine was not considered as a potential NATO member.

In order for Ukraine go join they would have to be able to provide a couple of things that they can not do.
1. Not be involved in territorial disputes within its borders
2. Spend at least 2% of gdp on 'defence' (yes they spend more on their civil war but the country is, in truth, bankrupt and can not support the 2% level for NATO support.)

The idea is that there's a preexisting condition clause. One can hardly expect to join nato and benefit from the mutual defence part of the treaty for an existing dispute. Of course the impetus for the current administration wanting to join is exactly for that reason. The population of Ukraine consistently poll as wanting to end the civil war imposed upon them and so their support for NATO membership is similarly chimeric - historically Ukraine's populace have not wanted membership and absent the war imposed upon them that is unlikely to have changed.

Those with selective- note snot 'short' memories' will note that Ukraine WAS non-aligned and had agreed to be a non nuclear proliferation nation.... They were 'protected' by Russia UK, USA ...

That worked out well for them ..

So 'well' that most Ukrainians now SUPPORT NATO membership and as andrewfi points out .. the reasons why this cannot happen, currently

Hands up who 'benefits' most by ensuring NATO membership cannot happen ... and might ensure a frozen conflict and prolonged economic woes....  ?


Online Tom Cat

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5103
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouses Country: Russia
  • Status: Just Looking
  • Trips: 20+
Ukraine military doctrine declares Russia as opponent, supports NATO membership

http://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2015/09/02/2-parties-stay-within-ukraines-governing-coalition

How very dishonest of that US news site to use Igor Derbin in a coffin to make any point about Russia. He was killed a few days ago in central Kiev during government and right sector clashes and his death is unconnected to Russia. Typical western media dishonesty.

There's been talk that Russia might just have had played a part in the protest.
I will give you little hint. It has to do with the Minsk agreement and the sanctions against Russia. :)
Don't shoot the messenger, links to articles posted, don't necessarily reflect my personal opinion.

Online Tom Cat

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5103
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouses Country: Russia
  • Status: Just Looking
  • Trips: 20+
Even Poroshenko seems to think Russia was involved.

Poroshenko Blames Russia For Police Deaths

http://news.sky.com/story/1545646/poroshenko-blames-russia-for-police-deaths
Don't shoot the messenger, links to articles posted, don't necessarily reflect my personal opinion.

Offline Manny

  • Moderator
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 15247
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouses Country: Russia
  • Status: Married
  • Trips: 20+
Of course. Putin is your man if you want to blame something on somebody with no evidence.

My egg this morning was not as runny as I would like. I bet Putin did something to the gas. Its his fault.  :coffeeread:

Offline Volshe

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4264
  • Country: 00
  • Gender: Female
    • moderndayruth
  • Spouses Country: Narnia
  • Status: Just Looking
I wasn't sure where to put this, but... Loved it how yesterday at a press conference Serbia's Ivica Dacic hissed at EU, re. their disapproval of Serbia having joint military exercise (wording?)  with Russia: NATO is ok with it and you are not a military pact, so mind your own business! He added a crutch word bre, a very Balkan word to express strong disapproval, closest to Russian bly**aty   >:(   :king:
"I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by."
Douglas Adams