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Author Topic: The Russian psyche  (Read 3007 times)

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Offline Danchik

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The Russian psyche
« on: August 02, 2015, 05:47:39 AM »
I have in the past talked about this extensively, to no avail, but here's a decent article about what makes a Russian tick.

I have also mention, to no avail, how Russia has only spent the last 25 years in a market economy, and the West's impatience with this fact (even though it took hundreds of years to get to where they are), and also Russia's progress with this transition. A transition that many, if not all Westerners completely disregard when they so conveniently compare America/pick your Western country to Russia.

Funny how this "elephant in the room" seems to always take a back seat to apples to apples comparisons (:).

Westerners, and Americans in particular, just can't wrap their heads around the fact that not everyone wants to be EXACTLY like them. And even if Russians want to embrace the finer qualities of Western culture, that it takes time to adjust from a Soviet system, not to mention its imperialistic past, to a free market, all the while forgetting about their (America, Britain, France, ect.) own checkered past.

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/opinion/article/russia-won-t-be-rushed-by-the-west-op-ed/526542.html
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Offline Volshe

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Re: The Russian psyche
« Reply #1 on: August 02, 2015, 06:14:50 AM »

Westerners, and Americans in particular, just can't wrap their heads around the fact that not everyone wants to be EXACTLY like them.


"Умом Россию не понять,
Аршином общим не измерить:
У ней особенная стать –
В Россию можно только верить."

Ф. И. Тютчев


You will not grasp her with your mind
Or cover with a common label,
For Russia is one of a kind –
Believe in her, if you are able...


translated by Anatoly Liberman
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Online andrewfi

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Re: The Russian psyche
« Reply #2 on: August 02, 2015, 06:19:29 AM »
Surprisingly for a Moscow Times piece there's not much to disagree with. :)

There's only one thing I'd add to that: we should understand that the reason for these comparisons and criticisms, or at least the crescendo we now see, is that there is a war going on - at least from the perspective of the 'west'. During a war there are things that the leaders will always try to inculcate into their people.

There is a tendency to dehumanise the opponents, and particularly the leadership; treating them as cyphers rather than a group of individuals with personalities and attributes. The other is to denigrate the people of the opposing country, treat them as fools, barbarians as being 'less human' than the more perfect US or WE.
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Offline Manny

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Re: The Russian psyche
« Reply #3 on: August 02, 2015, 02:38:08 PM »
I was reading an article today, a link to which probably belongs in this topic:

http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/the-varieties-of-russian-conservatism/

This one also probably belongs here. I warn you in advance it is long and not for the semi-literate:

http://newleftreview.org/II/94/perry-anderson-incommensurate-russia

There is no one definitive thing you can read that gives you an insight into the Russian psyche. But we are products of our society; and many people here espouse views without much of a grasp on Russian society and history.

I agree the 'Moscow Times' article was surprisingly unbiased given the source (casual readers should not think the 'Moscow Times' is what it sounds like; it is foreign owned and mostly rather anti-Russian).
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Offline msmoby

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Re: The Russian psyche
« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2015, 01:28:24 AM »
Interesting article

Disagree with some of his analogies

1/ ... as would Manny - if he is honest - re the Falklands.

2/ Did Britain re-occupy former colonies that it had agreed belonged to another state and had been taken by force, initially and suffered eth.cleasing / planting of 'victors'  ?

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Offline Volshe

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Re: The Russian psyche
« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2015, 01:33:07 AM »

This one also probably belongs here. I warn you in advance it is long and not for the semi-literate:

http://newleftreview.org/II/94/perry-anderson-incommensurate-russia

I've bookmarked it, seems like a serious read that takes couple of hours.

I skimmed couple of paragraphs so far, these thoughts caught my attention:

"At the box-office end of the market, blending commercial spectacle and middle-brow pretension, is Nikita Mikhalkov, the country’s Steven Spielberg. Once a caryatid of the Soviet cultural establishment, after the fall of the USSR he swiftly announced his conversion to Christianity; "

Mihalkov is big in Russian society, i believe he is considered to be (by more conservative/ traditional Russians) something like "father of the nation" to an extent. It's better not to make comparisons of a kind though ("Nikita Mikhalkov, the country’s Steven Spielberg"), because albeit they might seem as a welcomed shortcut to an understanding, in the long run they lead to the situation described in the first article to which Danchik linked.

(Myself, i am being guilty as charged, when comparing Vysotsky to Russian equivalent of Jim Morrison.)

To understand Russia, a Westerner needs to forget pretty much all they know about ways their own societies function and they need to approach this phenomena with a tabula rasa attitude, then there might be progress in understanding it.

Some stuff to keep in mind, in no particular order:

Christianity which is one of the moving forces behind Western culture in fact is very influential in Russia too but it is a particular stream of Christian Orthodoxy, different even from cousin-denominations spread in Balkans and in Greece for example. Beside "technical part" of the religion being different (fasts, which are one of the cornerstones of CO are kept in a very different way, more strictly in Russia, where basically the majority keeps fasts meant for monks only in other parts), it's the fundamental believes that differ - accentuated and too often repeated believe in suffering for example and it being very beneficial for the soul.

Then we have patience in enduring suffering. Mind you, not an impulse to change things, like in the West,  or to dis-attach from it like in Buddhism, but fatalism in perduring.

Work, which became some kind of golden calf in the western civilization, which substituted in Protestantism to big extent the room given to religious fasting and praying, is not among Russian priorities, except when it is executed communally and contributes to the unity of the group conducting it (a village for example.)

Russian value abstract thinking and it could be the vastness of their land that contributes to it, the land itself seems endless (compare to my own beloved Monte which you can cross by car in 3h from one border to another.)

Individualism, so precious to the West is not held in high respect, to the contrary, the group (society, family etc.) comes first, that could be the Euro-Asian part of the equation.

The author of the article mentions Akunin, whom he seems not to understand either. Akunin is not pulp-fiction writer, firstly he has the best writing style of all contemporary Russian writers. (Pelevin who is mentioned too, does have great visions in his novels, but can't write well, if his life depended on it... Think of Aldous Huxley or Gustav Meyrink, both being my personal favorites.) Secondly, Akunin's main worth is in that in his series of novels about detective Fandorin he restituts to the Russian reader what he had been deprived of during Soviet times - an account of tzarist Russia.

These are just some scrambled thoughts over my morning coffee, if i think of more points in the day, i'll write more.
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Offline Volshe

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Dusha, Toska, Sud’ba: Russian Culture in its Key Words
« Reply #6 on: August 03, 2015, 02:01:40 AM »
This is an essay i wrote earlier for my blog, but i think it belongs here too:


"Yesterday in the evening i was gazing at the setting sun from the porch of my friends' suburban home. The sun sets very late in Moscow. Over here, Shabbat candles, which mark the beginning of the Day of Rest, are lit some two hours later than in the NYC. As i am inhaling the scent of black earth, chernozem, sprinkled by the ephemeral spring rain, i am starting to feel something, which Russians call toska.

As Vladimir Nabokov puts it, “Toska - noun /ˈtō-skə/ is Russian word roughly translated as sadness, melancholia, lugubriousness. No single word in English renders all the shades of toska. At its deepest and most painful, it is a sensation of great spiritual anguish, often without any specific cause. At less morbid levels it is a dull ache of the soul, a longing with nothing to long for, a sick pining, a vague restlessness, mental throes, yearning. In particular cases it may be the desire for somebody or something specific, nostalgia, love-sickness. At the lowest level it grades into ennui, boredom.”
I couldn't explain in any other language what i feel and, more so, why i am feeling it. In my own culture, such inexplicable lonesome inner wandering is neither understood nor welcomed - and rightly so, Balkan sensuality, our history and the mountains around inspire an all another range of emotions.

I don't know what i'd call that feeling in English either - and probably no need to label it at all because i don't feel it out of Russia. Here, my friend Lily glances at me and, without hesitation, diagnoses my state with a verse by Mikhail Lermontov :

It's boring and sad, and there's no one around

In times of my spirit's travail.


It's not that she or i will do something  about it. Toska is acceptable here, it comes and goes on its own liking and it's not that you can do much about about it anyway. Toska is not a debilitating sadness or a severe depression - you can be hit by it and go about your everyday business. It's only that you won't smile all that much. Smiling isn't a norm here anyway, so that's OK too. Other external expressions of toska are prolonged, deep breaths and a specific hand waving gesture which conveys an almost audible "don't ask..."

Polish Australian linguist Ana Wierzbicka considers toska, along with sud'ba and dusha, to be the key concept of Russian culture.

Sud'ba would be fate in its most passive understanding and dusha  is Russian word for soul, to which way more is ascribed in this culture, than in any other. Wierbicka notices that "dusha" is used in numerous, if not all, sayings and expressions where in English we'd say " mind". Russian soul also gets blamed for a myriad of things for which in other languages we blame our vanity, silliness or even lust.

Wierbicka is popular in Russia - to the extent to which a linguist can be popular, you can feel from her work that she is fascinated with this culture and that she, like me and pretty much all the foreigners here, does love it, albeit most of the times it is beyond our understanding. At the predefence of my own Phd thesis, the famed professor Alla Yuryevna Konstantinovna asked me: Do you agree with Wierbicka that the language itself and its key concepts make Russians passive? I don't. I am not even sure Wierbicka sees it as passivity, she speaks more of a Russian fatalistic attitude towards life itself. That's how she sees it and maybe, just maybe, it could be explained by some tenants of Christian Orthodoxy (versus the presumed Protestant proactive attitude towards pretty much everything.)

To me all of it could be explained geographically - or, better to say, located, if not explained. The farther you go to the East, towards Asia, the more you'll feel it - this acceptance of the things as they are and you'll observe certain (more or less) patient awaiting of the circumstances to change, more and more, as you progress to the East and Far East. Maybe it has to do with the language, maybe with the weather - or we could blame it all on dusha, the black earth and that special scent that birch trees emit in the spring..."
L.R.S.



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Offline msmoby

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Re: The Russian psyche
« Reply #7 on: August 03, 2015, 03:34:35 AM »
Volshe, earlier I wondered about Russian's - apparently - operating on a group basis and my valid point re watching how they behave behind the wheel - or queue jumping - seemed to contradict that 'theory'  :chuckle:
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Offline cdnexpat

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Re: The Russian psyche
« Reply #8 on: August 03, 2015, 02:15:37 PM »
Volshe, earlier I wondered about Russian's - apparently - operating on a group basis and my valid point re watching how they behave behind the wheel - or queue jumping - seemed to contradict that 'theory'  :chuckle:

Watching an FSU woman doing the bazar is a must. She must select herself every tomato, cucumber, fruit and vegetable. She must taste salted cucumbers, grapes, apple, etc...She must squeeze the bread, the meat, the fish, and then haggle the price of each single items.  :o

Offline msmoby

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Re: The Russian psyche
« Reply #9 on: August 03, 2015, 11:05:43 PM »


Watching an FSU woman doing the bazar is a must. She must select herself every tomato, cucumber, fruit and vegetable. She must taste salted cucumbers, grapes, apple, etc...She must squeeze the bread, the meat, the fish, and then haggle the price of each single items.  :o

I would make a video of the process - but I carry the dog and bags and follow, faithfully - loving every minute of the entertainment and I am not sure the vendors would understand being filmed  :chuckle:
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Offline cdnexpat

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Re: The Russian psyche
« Reply #10 on: August 04, 2015, 12:03:51 AM »
I also carry the bags. By the time we get to the car, my fingers are blue and red. :nod:

Offline Volshe

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Re: The Russian psyche
« Reply #11 on: August 04, 2015, 12:35:37 AM »
Watching an FSU woman doing the bazar is a must. She must select herself every tomato, cucumber, fruit and vegetable. She must taste salted cucumbers, grapes, apple, etc...She must squeeze the bread, the meat, the fish, and then haggle the price of each single items.  :o

that's what 99% of Eastern European women do... and there's no logical explanation  behind it  :biggrin: If i, like, really, but really hated someone, i'd curse them to go to the green market with my mother!  ;D She puts more attention into choosing a single tomato, than she did in choosing her husband, home, work and 15.000 e fur coat together!!!  ;D ;D ;D

I also carry the bags. By the time we get to the car, my fingers are blue and red. :nod:
In high school, i had hard time explaining to my back then flame (he was/is Russian) that he doesn't have to carry my lady bag around  ;D We met again last year in Moscow, after 25y AND IT WAS THE SAME STORY!!! Some people never learn!  :GRRRR:
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Offline cdnexpat

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Re: The Russian psyche
« Reply #12 on: August 04, 2015, 12:45:32 AM »
Another FSU tradition, the birthday parties! We can't seem to spend 10 days, without having one. They religiously celebrate all birthdays of the extended families, and families of friends. it simply does not stop.
I once celebrated the birthday of the brother of my Russian teacher, in a small town in Russia. It became a three day affair, consuming huge amounts of vodka and food. :sick0012:

Offline Volshe

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Re: The Russian psyche
« Reply #13 on: August 04, 2015, 01:11:18 AM »
Another FSU tradition, the birthday parties! We can't seem to spend 10 days, without having one. They religiously celebrate all birthdays of the extended families, and families of friends. it simply does not stop.
I once celebrated the birthday of the brother of my Russian teacher, in a small town in Russia. It became a three day affair, consuming huge amounts of vodka and food. :sick0012:

i stopped celebrating my own upon returning from Russia and started hating the event with passion...

some background: during Soviet times, all the holidays, except new year and one's BDay were very politicized, not sure you can even get that, unless you lived there in those times...

everything included so much work and effort - showing up at celebrations, listening to long politically correct speeches, taking flowers to whereever they needed to be taken; those who could act/sing/dance /read verses well (i was in the last category) were preparing months ahead to take part  at the event; we had rehearsals 2x a week for several hours;
the study program was difficult as it was, basically you'd come home from school, have lunch, and start studying (around 3pm) and will study until bedtime around midnight
Saturdays we went to school;

the very little free time an average student would have was taken away with the rehearsals

it was not fun, at all

the only holidays where there was no pressure of a kind, no duties, nothing except fun and one's family and friends, were the NY and birthdays, that's why the tradition is that strong

still, myself, i started hating both  ;D
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Offline Boris

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Re: The Russian psyche
« Reply #14 on: August 04, 2015, 05:35:13 AM »
Yes, birthdays are a big deal. If you forget you are in trouble. They are by far the biggest events in our house, now.

Offline msmoby

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Re: The Russian psyche
« Reply #15 on: August 04, 2015, 11:32:14 PM »
I also carry the bags. By the time we get to the car, my fingers are blue and red. :nod:

exactly  :)

I made a video of the central market - it was 33C outside 90F ? and the building is not air-conditioned


One can see the ladies in the dairy section using cardboard to fan themselves and the condensation forms on the cabinets, making it hard to view the wares

We are pestered by a lady with a baby for money and then her Mum seated [@1 minute] takes over...I am a softie, but never give money to beggars on principle - they hang around as you are given change..

SC tries before she buys and has said to the dairy lady - just before I start the video -  'I bought some bad eggs last week from another seller- how do I know yours are OK ?' ..the lady feigns shock and says, 'we  know each other - why would I risk your custom'..and so the bargaining process continues -

To the fruit and veg section - all must be tasted first... she will only buy from sellers who permit her to try melons/ apples, first - but they know she consumes them by the dozen - so accede.... I cringe when she rejects them  :chuckle:

I follow, carrying the bags and pretend not to be interested - but wonder what the sellers think of SC's 'sponsor'  ...



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Offline Volshe

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Re: The Russian psyche
« Reply #16 on: August 05, 2015, 12:03:00 AM »
Thanks for sharing, Moby! Right, that pretty much depicts the process!  ;D Usually the men who accompany the ladies to the green markets are viewed as close-to-saints/ martyrs by the sellers (speaking from experience of course lol), as they do know what a demanding and difficult role it is!
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Offline Boris

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Re: The Russian psyche
« Reply #17 on: August 05, 2015, 06:07:51 AM »
Thanks for sharing, Moby! Right, that pretty much depicts the process!  ;D Usually the men who accompany the ladies to the green markets are viewed as close-to-saints/ martyrs by the sellers (speaking from experience of course lol), as they do know what a demanding and difficult role it is!

That's why it was important to get Tanya driving so I didn't have to go shopping. Oye!! :-)))

Offline Volshe

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Re: The Russian psyche
« Reply #18 on: August 05, 2015, 06:21:41 AM »

That's why it was important to get Tanya driving so I didn't have to go shopping. Oye!! :-)))

;D ;D ;D


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Offline Manny

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Re: The Russian psyche
« Reply #19 on: November 06, 2015, 10:01:59 AM »
One wonders how, in Egypt, Russian tourists just happened to find some Putin t-shirts.

ila_rendered

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/10-things-to-know-for-today/2015/11/06/d4ed9cfa-8476-11e5-8bd2-680fff868306_story.html
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Look what the American media makes some people believe:
Putin often threatens to strike US with nuclear weapons.