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Author Topic: The Non-Invasion of the Baltic States  (Read 18503 times)

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Offline Manny

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Re: The Non-Invasion of the Baltic States
« Reply #15 on: July 23, 2015, 01:05:40 PM »
To suggest The Kremlin was 'reacting' in Ukraine is hardly honest.

Absolutely factual I think you will find. Crimea was a reaction to the regime change in Ukraine.

I may not OWN a place in EST - or LV / LT, but I DO know that Vilnius and the surrounding lakes/ forests are beautiful  - perhaps your need to get to EST has  not allowed you to visit many beautiful places in LT or LV

Translation: We agree there are many forests. I point I noted. Unlike you, I do own a place in Estonia and have been going there seventeen years. So I think I may have garnered a teensy weensy bit of knowledge about the place and its inhabitants in that time.

Offline Volshe

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Re: The Non-Invasion of the Baltic States
« Reply #16 on: July 23, 2015, 01:08:07 PM »


People around the world are being fed a whole lot of untruths and half truths with the express purpose of scaring them into accepting actions, restrictions and legislation that they'd never accept in a million years if they were not thusly scared.

Quite and you appear to be supporting this action - shame on you.

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Offline Anteros

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Re: The Non-Invasion of the Baltic States
« Reply #17 on: July 23, 2015, 01:08:21 PM »
Froid, it has always been hard for them to take an objective look at themselves. Or see mistakes they make. I'd be surprised if many locals agreed with my view to be honest; apart from perhaps some Russians.

Which is why the Estonians should be afraid, very afraid.  They see and hear a man over there in Moscow trying his best to rehabilitate Stalin and they know exactly what those kind of people are capable of.  Putin's warmongering may play well to his home crowd however let's hope he keeps it at home from now on.
Be careful what you wish for, you might get it.


Offline Anteros

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Re: The Non-Invasion of the Baltic States
« Reply #18 on: July 23, 2015, 01:09:56 PM »
To suggest The Kremlin was 'reacting' in Ukraine is hardly honest.

Absolutely factual I think you will find. Crimea was a reaction to the regime change in Ukraine.

I may not OWN a place in EST - or LV / LT, but I DO know that Vilnius and the surrounding lakes/ forests are beautiful  - perhaps your need to get to EST has  not allowed you to visit many beautiful places in LT or LV

Translation: We agree there are many forests. I point I noted. Unlike you, I do own a place in Estonia and have been going there seventeen years. So I think I may have garnered a teensy weensy bit of knowledge about the place and its inhabitants in that time.

I wonder if you had owned a place in Crimea if you would still own it, absent your connections.   :smokin:
Be careful what you wish for, you might get it.

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Re: The Non-Invasion of the Baltic States
« Reply #19 on: July 23, 2015, 01:47:05 PM »

I wonder if you had owned a place in Crimea if you would still own it, absent your connections.   :smokin:
Yes he would.
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Online andrewfi

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Re: The Non-Invasion of the Baltic States
« Reply #20 on: July 23, 2015, 02:53:07 PM »
Anteros, where do you get this stuff from?
The Russian government are not 'rehabilitating' Stalin and neither is the Russian state. However it would be a know nothing imbecile who was unable to recognise the advances that occurred during the time of his regime - at the same time as recognizing the bad stuff.


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Online Wiz

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Re: The Non-Invasion of the Baltic States
« Reply #21 on: July 23, 2015, 06:59:31 PM »
May I remind everybody of little history.

It appears that the Yalta agreement, of spheres of influence is till in operation and I noticed that the Russians stick to it..... and the Americans too for that matter.

Of course there are few tests, here and there by both sides but not actually good enough reasons for escalation to the point of no return, war and despite the efforts of the Pentagon hawks to support their friends in the defence apparatus.

Regrading the Baltic states and their participation in the EU and NATO, was mostly instigated by the Germans, who now have nearly complete economical control of all three of them. Of course the American's, don't like a German expansion of influence, from the country who is officially an occupied territory until 2099, after signing the complete capitulation to the Americans,  and exist and operate as a public company, not as a Nation State.

Could it be that the American's are clipping the wings of the Germans as they cannot accept a 3rd member joining the table of hegemons?

Is this the reason for the joint army exercises
in these 3 Ex - Russian Republics?
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Offline froid

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Re: The Non-Invasion of the Baltic States
« Reply #22 on: July 23, 2015, 08:28:31 PM »
His view is you are full of shit, have a verbose puppet parroting you, and that 3 years from now, or next when he needs it to shore up home support, Putin will make his next move.  Whether it is green men in Estonia, Lithuania or Latvia or even Poland it doesn't matter.  It will be bad. 

If your property was in Crimea or Ukraine you might still own it sure...but it might also be a shell crater...or it might be worth a lot lot lot less.  Especially when priced in rubles. 

Look, we're gonna spend half the night driving around the Hills looking for this one party and you're going to say it sucks and we're all gonna leave and then we're gonna go look for this other party. But all the parties and all the bars, they all suck. <-Same goes for forums!

Offline Anteros

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Re: The Non-Invasion of the Baltic States
« Reply #23 on: July 23, 2015, 09:31:37 PM »

I wonder if you had owned a place in Crimea if you would still own it, absent your connections.   :smokin:
Yes he would.

Absent the official Russian connections?  You must be smoking something other than cigarettes.   :Zzzzsleep:
Be careful what you wish for, you might get it.

Online Markje

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Re: The Non-Invasion of the Baltic States
« Reply #24 on: July 23, 2015, 11:05:27 PM »
Absent the official Russian connections?  You must be smoking something other than cigarettes.   :Zzzzsleep:
No, I have real-life relatives living there, who own their own shit mortgage-free, a strange concept to americans, I know.
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Online msmoby

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Re: The Non-Invasion of the Baltic States
« Reply #25 on: July 23, 2015, 11:12:05 PM »
Anteros, where do you get this stuff from?
The Russian government are not 'rehabilitating' Stalin and neither is the Russian state. However it would be a know nothing imbecile who was unable to recognise the advances that occurred during the time of his regime - at the same time as recognizing the bad stuff.
This is the sort of post that worries me anout afi.

He now points out Stalin's policies that worked.... throw human fodder at the Nazis while we move out industry behind the Urals.. and a small hont as to his massive failings.

The policy here has been to promote strength and victory over facism.. that we were strong and proud. I  have watched it unfolding since the RU and former Soviet flag were merged to promote the 60th anniversary of the end of the 2nd World War in Europe.

Sadly, Stalin is increasingly seen as a leader who made the former USSR powerful and many people in Russia now seem ready to forgive his many mistakes / cruel policies which involved mass eth. cleansings and planting of Russians in places where the locals objected to the soviet yolk.

Their descendants are now settled in places like EST and LV and are not even recognised as citizens....just residents. LT at least made these people citizens. Perhaps the fact that there were far less percentage wise was an influencing factor.

Russia gets upset when folks that hought fighting for the Nazis would free them from Soviet  occupation commemerate those that died...not understanding the conceptvof my enemies enemy being my friend and the language tests that eth Russians have to pass to become citizens includes a declaration that renounces the FSU occupation..something I feel should be removed..as so many of these people were BORN in the Baltic state (parents and g parents, too)

The recent investigation by the Russian Prosecution General into the legallity of the B.States leaving the USSR simply demonstrates that the Kremlin is happy to keep the pot stirred.

Unlike Manny or Afi... I can and understand see both sides pov.



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Online shakespear

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Re: The Non-Invasion of the Baltic States
« Reply #26 on: July 23, 2015, 11:25:39 PM »
Fact is ALL the Baltic countries are members of NATO.

Any aggression toward them will be considered the same as a direct attack on a member NATO country by that aggressor.

Even Putin isn't stupid enough to start World War Three.

I see the threat level here as zero.


"If you obey all the rules, you miss all the fun" - Katharine Hepburn

Offline Volshe

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Re: The Non-Invasion of the Baltic States
« Reply #27 on: July 24, 2015, 12:47:15 AM »
His view is you are full of shit, have a verbose puppet parroting you, and that 3 years from now, or next when he needs it to shore up home support, Putin will make his next move.  Whether it is green men in Estonia, Lithuania or Latvia or even Poland it doesn't matter.  It will be bad. 


Fact is ALL the Baltic countries are members of NATO.

Any aggression toward them will be considered the same as a direct attack on a member NATO country by that aggressor.


+ 100

(Albeit i disagree that it would start the WW III ;))

Froid, pass kind regards to your visitor; how absolutely amazing he's so familiar with RUA admin and his viewpoints, so to have such a strong opinion on it, more so, that he can express it in such strong colloquial English... Is his Russian as fluent?  I always said it, most teeny-weeny nations have several things in common - they are excellent in parroting neighboring dominant cultures (that's unless they are willing to spill their own blood, like we did, but that's usually not the case, usually they merely passive-aggressively chameleonize) and they are quick learners. :)
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Online andrewfi

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Re: The Non-Invasion of the Baltic States
« Reply #28 on: July 24, 2015, 01:05:27 AM »
I would be interested to  see froid's invisible friend share his fact based insight into the benefits that would accrue to Russia from invading territory which currently provides benefits to Russia at a price that suits both Russia and Estonia, bearing in mind that any such benefits would increase in price if there were to be an invasion.

It is taken for granted that froid's invisible yet knowledgeable friend understands that price has more than just a money dimension.

Frankly, when a rational consideration is made then it becomes obvious that there is no invasion threat from Russia but that the current attitude of the Estonian leadership is destabilising and risky because it serves to alter a status quo that serves both Estonia and Russia well. The Great Aids Scare whilst similarly dishonest and which served as a template for the  current silliness did not carry the downside that Estonian posturing carries today. And, no, I do not think that Russia would invade Estonia because of that posturing.

"For what else is the life of man but a kind of play in which men in various costumes perform until the director motions them offstage?" -Erasmus

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Re: The Non-Invasion of the Baltic States
« Reply #29 on: July 24, 2015, 03:33:07 AM »


Absolutely factual I think you will find. Crimea was a reaction to the regime change in Ukraine. 

The movement - started off in reaction to the Kremlin's stunts to persuade Yanu' which way to jump...  reacting to Kremlin interference in UA policy.

Do tell us how Crimeans were in any 'danger' while 20-25K troops were present on the peninsular ....



I may not OWN a place in EST - or LV / LT, but I DO know that Vilnius and the surrounding lakes/ forests are beautiful  - perhaps your need to get to EST has  not allowed you to visit many beautiful places in LT or LV

Translation: We agree there are many forests. I point I noted. Unlike you, I do own a place in Estonia and have been going there seventeen years. So I think I may have garnered a teensy weensy bit of knowledge about the place and its inhabitants in that time.

To remind you - I was discussing your 'analysis of Lithuania's beauty ...    Do TRY to keep up and not deflect.  :chuckle: