The Western Propaganda Thread

[Texan77]

The troop placements by Russia, within Russian territory are not war games, they are a direct response to what is happening westward, in Ukraine, in Poland, in Romania. I have no doubt that the new deployments are ready for a very rapid response to what may come next from the puppets in Kiev.

Gee!!! The US will not sell the government in Kiev any meaningful arms nor will any body else. What are they suppose to use?

The last invasion of the Ukraine the Ukraine army was able to be beat with less than 2000 Russian troops and a little help for the DPR. The Ukraine can not beat the DPR now it is going to invade Russia. Andrew what's UP. You no better than this. The last heard the Russia could over run all the Ukraine in less than a week and they do not even have to be massed on the border to do that.

The only thing that is happening is the government in Kiev will not give up on the LPR and DPR so the war goes on. No one planning to invade Russia just more propaganda to support Russia's next move. 

[andrewfi]

Texan77, what are you burbling about.

The shelling of the LPR/DPR is not coming from pea shooters, the shells are not lumps of concrete.

What 'invasion' are you referring to? Is there some graphic novel that you have been reading recently?

Comment about girl friend deleted.  Against TOS - Leslied

[Tom Cat]

The western media fails to mention why relations between Russia and the west, have deteriorated.


Observer POLITICS

Putin’s Army Demands ‘NATO Soldiers! Hands Up! Lay Down Your Weapons!’



http://observer.com/2016/08/putins-army-demands-nato-soldiers-hands-up-lay-down-your-weapons/

[Tom Cat]

The Washington post is also very anti Trump.

Russia is now a threat. The U.S. should treat it like one

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/in-theory/wp/2016/08/18/russia-is-now-a-threat-the-u-s-should-treat-it-like-one/?utm_term=.5a6d6aa518da

[Tom Cat]

That little stunt, Ukraine tried in Crimea, worked well enough to get them back in the news, fearing an Russian invasion.

WATCH: Vladimir Putin’s huge fleet of tanks board ships as 'full-scale invasion' looms

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/539909/Vladimir-Putin-Crimea-Ukraine-Kerch-Ferry-Army-Invasion-Europe-Looms-Baltic-NATO-Fears

[bagalia]

That little stunt, Ukraine tried in Crimea, worked well enough to get them back in the news, fearing an Russian invasion.

WATCH: Vladimir Putin’s huge fleet of tanks board ships as 'full-scale invasion' looms

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/539909/Vladimir-Putin-Crimea-Ukraine-Kerch-Ferry-Army-Invasion-Europe-Looms-Baltic-NATO-Fears

Yes, if you can believe that Ukraine wished to upset the end of the Crimean tourist season or wished to provoke Russia into taking all of Ukraine in three days. Guess these Ukies are pretty stupid trying what did not work in Georgia.

However, if this was all about Russia arranging a fake terrorist attack just to get out of the next set of talks or to have a reason to invade, well then...

But Putin did say these were war games. I was told to believe what he says so I will. I also do not believe he would get away with another incursion in a bordering country as well as he did with Georgia. I do not believe he has the guts to do this one.

[Markje]

Here in Crimea there is a totally different viewpoint. People think it is just to show off how safe 'we' are and there is 0 chance of another donbass situation

[andrewfi]

There's often more than one level of reality going on in these matters.

That's why thinking in terms of Putin, or Trump or Poroshenko is comfortingly simple but is ultimately confusing and leads to errors in analysis and understanding.

The first thing is that there was absolutely undoubtedly a series of incursions into Crimea the other week. The Russians have shown the video of the Ukrainian secret service officer confirming this and there's no dispute as to the identity of the guy.

But where matters get confusing for those who think only in monolithic, single track, terms is this: To whom, ultimately was the sabotage team responsible? You see, Ukraine, like Russia and the USA is not a single organism with every cell concentrated upon a common goal with all policy, planning and action carried out in a direct line of command from the president. For example, in Ukraine, under the current constitution, the president has very little direct power, he can order very little to happen through the government ministries, he can not even implement policy.

Within Ukraine there are competing power structures with different policies and different goals. For example, we know that the interior ministry and military, headed by different people, compete for resources, are headed by men with different views as to how Ukraine should be run and different ideas as to how to manage challenges to the country and state. This makes it perfectly possible for one group, the interior ministry which controls the SBU, to take actions that are designed to provoke a response not just from Russia but more particularly from other elements within Ukraine - particularly the military.

Given that we already know that the Interior Ministry and Military have different perspectives on the Crimea/Donbass situation and that we already know that both groups have taken actions designed to provoke a desired response from the other it seems to me that this recent activity was designed by the SBU (Interior Ministry) to provoke a response from the military - and that's exactly what has happened. The military was forced to increase readiness and to make silly claims by the actions of the SBU.

This is not unique to Ukraine. We see a very similar situation in Syria where we have the ridiculous situation of terrorists supported by the CIA fighting terrorists supported by the US military. Each group is pursuing a different policy goal. Two elements of the US power structure are, quite literally, at war with each other.

At the moment, Russia is standing out because, although we know there are competing power blocs within the government and power vertical, we are seeing a remarkably consistent application of the tools of policy in international relations. Of course, domestically, as we also know, there is much less consistency of application, particularly in economic areas. it is this focus of power that is setting Russia apart from the US right now.

Bagalia, as you probably know, war games serve several purposes. I am sure that you are not so daft as to think that events happen in isolation. We know that Russia has changed their defence structure, I have written about that here before now. Those changes reflect current defence needs. Exercises are carried out to increase readiness for implementation of defence strategies in response to external stimuli. On another level they also serve to demonstrate to the outside world that preparedness. It is a kind of chest beating and, again, would not happen if there was no stimulus provoking the reaction. So, yes, as usual, you can believe, on the whole, that which the leadership of Russia tells you about the manner in which Russia sees the world and reacts to the stimuli upon Russia from the world.

What these exercises are not, I am sure, is a cloaking of preparation for a genuine invasion of Ukraine. There's simply no reason for such activity, no benefit to Russia and, as before, Russia does not have the strength to subdue and hold Ukraine anyway. That's a whole different thing to understanding that they could invade and defeat the Ukraine army in a matter of days.

[Tom Cat]

 wonder how much of the anti Putin push has to do with the current presidential election, and Trumps praise for Putin?

This is the reason Putin is even more dangerous than you thought

>>Link Here<<

[Tom Cat]

Separating facts from fiction.

The NY Times's Dishonest and Hypocritical Reporting On Ukraine

http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/dumbed-down-new-york-times/ri16142

[Tom Cat]

Wow, according to this article, the average monthly wage is $450.
Does anyone know what the actual number might be?

Vladimir Putin is not 'strong' when it comes to Russia's economy

http://www.cnbc.com/2016/09/09/vladimir-putin-is-not-strong-when-it-comes-to-russias-economy.html

[Tom Cat]

 

Trump and Putin poisoned Hillary Clinton, warns top doctor.

http://metro.co.uk/2016/09/13/trump-and-putin-poisoned-hillary-clinton-warns-top-doctor-6124813/

[andrewfi]

Wow, according to this article, the average monthly wage is $450.
Does anyone know what the actual number might be?

http://www.cnbc.com/2016/09/09/vladimir-putin-is-not-strong-when-it-comes-to-russias-economy.html

You can see wages and other employment data here:
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/russia/wages

When looking at the figures it is sensible to ignore any numbers expressed in dollars as the rouble is the national currency in Russia and wages are paid in that currency.

If you look at the series data you see a clear pattern of short term fluctuations against a background of steadily increasing incomes and wages. Look at the 10 year chart for a very clear illustration of that fact. A 12 month average running August 2015 to July 2016 shows average wages of 35,280 roubles per month. For convenience that is, at today's exchange rate, $543 US dollars.

For context, it is worth understanding prices in Russia. For example, overall costs are about 30% less expensive in Russia compared to, for example, Estonia. However, in Estonia, wages are about $1192 at today's XR. Comparing based upon purchasing power, one ends up with a much smaller variance: 543:786. That would seem about right.

Cost of living info: http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/country_result.jsp?country=Russia

Bottom line? Russians are not as badly off as some would have you believe. Not an earthly paradise, but a growing consumer society.

[bagalia]

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/nation-world/national/national-security/article105181221.html


Hacked emails from Russia to Donbass on propaganda. Makes me wonder if some people here got the email last year.

[Manny]

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/nation-world/national/national-security/article105181221.html


Hacked emails from Russia to Donbass on propaganda. Makes me wonder if some people here got the email last year.

Matthew Schofield is a known Russophobe in the Moby model. He writes for a US newspaper group. The article offers no proof or checkable references. His sub 400 Twitter following suggests his level of popularity.

[Tom Cat]

A bit over the top.

Russia builds huge underground shelters in Moscow as it prepares for NUCLEAR WAR with West

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/717295/russia-vladimir-putin-nuclear-way-america-aleppo-west-john-kerry-obama-syria-isis

[andrewfi]

Maybe over the top on one level, but on another it demonstrates several things:
1) In a concrete way it lets Russians know the seriousness of the situation
2) It serves as a real drill and test of emergency preparedness
3) It shows the US the seriousness of the situation
4) It shows the US that Russia means business
5) It shows the US that Russia can survive the coming attack and compares their situation with the US where preparedness is not a thing - and a few beardies with guns and rolls of TP in a shed in the woods is NOT preparedness!

[Tom Cat]

Maybe over the top on one level, but on another it demonstrates several things:
1) In a concrete way it lets Russians know the seriousness of the situation
2) It serves as a real drill and test of emergency preparedness
3) It shows the US the seriousness of the situation
4) It shows the US that Russia means business
5) It shows the US that Russia can survive the coming attack and compares their situation with the US where preparedness is not a thing - and a few beardies with guns and rolls of TP in a shed in the woods is NOT preparedness!

I do agree , what I had referred to being over the top was something I had read in another article. At the moment I can't open it, but it said 40 million Russians were to spend  oct4 tbru oct 7 in underground bunkers.  I will pose this question, if there were to be an nuclear war, realistically how many people would be able to survive for god knows how many months in an underground bunkers?  The amounts of foods supplies water and waste management would make for a real number far less than 40 million.

[andrewfi]

The expectation is not to stay there for months. Assuming shelters are similar to those in Finland, and as far as I know they are,  then they are bomb shelters. Not designed to be lived in for the long term.

Providing shelter from the immediate effects of a nuclear detonation is,  as we know from the only cases of nuclear attack, the most important issue. That requires only a few days of shelter.

If we need to think of sheltering entire populations for months or years,  well, count me out of any bomb shelter population.

Remember, Russia is a very big place,  room to move.

[Gipsy]

What twaddle....

The Министерство по чрезвычайным ситуациям – МЧС, Russian civil defence corps, is holding its ANNUAL excercises through out the country.

The theme is as usual, Nuclear, Chemical and Biological clean-up after some form of Attack/Catastrophe,

Game for a laugh it seems...

[andrewfi]

What twaddle....

The Министерство по чрезвычайным ситуациям – МЧС, Russian civil defence corps, is holding its ANNUAL excercises through out the country.

The theme is as usual, Nuclear, Chemical and Biological clean-up after some form of Attack/Catastrophe,

Game for a laugh it seems...

Thanks for sharing. I just looked here: http://www.mchs.gov.ru/ and the info is posted on the page in Russian and English. better to read the Russian version t is more complete.

Well, looks like the wool got pulled over lots of people's eyes, mine included. I should've read more before posting.  

That said, Russia is not alone in providing nuclear shelters for its populace, a policy not emulated in the USA. Anyone who has ever parked their car in the underground car parking in Helsinki will probably have wondered at the huge metal doors at the entrances and exits - that's part of the Finnish nuclear defences for the populace. Same same for folks living in apartment blocks who have underground, basement storage for their surplus goodies as a result of the same policy. The heavy doors are not to keep rats and mice out of the buildings.

[Tom Cat]

Maybe Vlad sees a Hillary Clinton presidency as an  inevitable path to war.
Or this is just more media BS.

Is Russia Getting Ready for War?

http://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2016-10-13/russia-could-be-prepping-for-war-orders-all-relatives-of-officials-to-return-home

[andrewfi]

It isn't true though. Somebody made something up. A planted, unsourced, story in a regional publication that became the basis of a whirlwind of silliness in the western media.

[Tom Cat]

World War 3 News: Russia To Attack US In Two Weeks

http://www.morningledger.com/world-war-3-news-russia-to-attack-us-in-two-weeks/13113492/

[Markje]

World War 3 News: Russia To Attack US In Two Weeks

http://www.morningledger.com/world-war-3-news-russia-to-attack-us-in-two-weeks/13113492/

I won't hold my breath this will happen.