The Western Propaganda Thread

[WestCoast]

Visiting one of the other forums that can't be named and saw this post from Youtube. The program from Channel 5 in Russia about how fast Russian forces could invade European capitals and the US. It starts out mentioning that Warsaw is only 1300 kms from Moscow and reachable by a T90 tank in less than 24 hours. It then goes on to mention Germany and the Baltic states. All targets reachable by land.

After mentioning London and Washington it notes that these capitals would require naval and air forces. Too bad Russia's navy and air force are barely operational and certainly not in any shape to challenge even the UK military let alone the US.

Is Channel 5 in Russia a comedy channel? There were English subtitles but it seemed as if they were seriously entertaining the idea that a Russian naval force could reach the UK unopposed.

As for the Russian Air Force reaching the US even under cover of a missile bombardment (are Russian missiles operational or would they blow up on liftoff?) I'm sure even the commanders of the Russian Air Force don't consider this a realistic possibility.

[cufflinks]

USA has interesting new surprise waiting for attackers:

http://www.darkgovernment.com/news/tr-3b/

Space Shuttle 3.0?

[WestCoast]

With Putin and his puppet army racing towards the Moldova border the fight for Moldova is continuing. Russia is in control of Transnistria and has told the Moldova government if they go with the EU Russia will keep Transnistria. Of course the unspoken threat is that Russia will also take over the rest of Moldova.

Romania is trying to get Moldova to look to the EU for support. Romania has sent ambulances and sent up an ambulance service in places like Balti, Moldova to encourage Moldovan citizens to look towards the EU rather than Russia. After the EU's poor performance in dissuading Russia from its ongoing invasion of Ukraine its hard to justify the EU way of life. After all when you have a Russian AK47 pointed at you it's really not much of a choice, is it?

http://news.yahoo.com/romania-sends-ambulances-moldova-tug-war-russia-175956056--sector.html

[cufflinks]

http://www.businessinsider.com/russias-former-largest-foreign-investor-putin-is-worth-200-billion-2015-2

Russia's former largest foreign investor: Putin is worth $200 billion

MICHAEL B KELLEY
   
FEB. 15, 2015, 11:19 AM

[Manny]

Russia is in control of Transnistria and has told the Moldova government if they go with the EU Russia will keep Transnistria.

Please link us to that statement on the Kremlin website, also, please link us to the invitation to Moldova from the EU to "go with them"?

Thanks in advance. 

[cufflinks]

Guess we will have to include all of the UK Media here as well including but not limited to Daily Mail, Telegraph, Economist, Reuters, BBC etc as well then.

[WestCoast]

Russia is in control of Transnistria and has told the Moldova government if they go with the EU Russia will keep Transnistria.

Please link us to that statement on the Kremlin website, also, please link us to the invitation to Moldova from the EU to "go with them"?

Thanks in advance. 

Manny you show me where the Moldova government invited Russia in to occupy Transnistria. You go first. Non Kremlin source, non Russian source. please.

OK I'm a sweetheart so I'll go first.

http://www.rferl.org/content/ukraine-georgia-moldovaexplainer-eu-accord/25436472.html
http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_MEMO-14-430_en.htm?locale=en

Moldova and Georgia each will sign both an Association Agreement and a DCFTA. Also a source directly from the EU Commission. An invitation to join the EU.

Lots of reading between the 2 links. I'd certainly interpret it as an invitation to Moldova to join the EU. Wouldn't you?

Your turn. Remember something from the government of Moldova, not a region or province or city, etc, asking Russia to occupy Transnistria. Again from a non Kremlin, non Russian source. It goes without saying that the information has to be in English since I don't speak Russian and for that matter, neither do you.   

Also, change the title of the thread. I'm not American. Since the information is directly from the EU Commission it is not propaganda, nor American in nature.



 

[WestCoast]

As has been mentioned before Russia derives more than half of its foreign income from the energy sector. A Bloomberg article is mentioning the possibility of $20/barrel or even $10/barrel oil. Oil is currently hovering somewhere around $50/barrel. What would happen if the $50/barrel price was cut by 60% or worse 80%?

What would happen to Russia if it's foreign income from oil was less than 10% of what it was at oil's high price in 2014? Would Putin be kicked out of office? Would those Russians in Crimea be so badly off they'd want to return to Ukrainian rule? Would the Putin's puppets in Ukraine (and elsewhere) be left to their own devices?

If the low price of oil, $10/barrel, was long term, becoming the new normal price of oil, could the Russian economy ever recover? What other sources of foreign revenue could be found to make up such a massive shortfall in revenue? 

http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2015-02-16/oil-prices-likely-to-fall-as-supplies-rise-demand-falls?cmpid=yhoo

[sashathecat]

Interview with a Russian recruiter where he divulges his activities and things such as pay scale. Russian source.

http://www.e1.ru/news/spool/news_id-416966.html

Newsweek has a nice translation for those of us who do not speak Russian.

http://www.newsweek.com/how-russians-are-sent-fight-ukraine-296937

[Donhollio]

 It has been a few days, guess there was no other source to back up Manny's claim there Westy     

[WestCoast]

It has been a few days, guess there was no other source to back up Manny's claim there Westy     

True but at least the title of the thread was changed. 

[Markje]

Interview with a Russian recruiter where he divulges his activities and things such as pay scale. Russian source.

http://www.e1.ru/news/spool/news_id-416966.html

Newsweek has a nice translation for those of us who do not speak Russian.

http://www.newsweek.com/how-russians-are-sent-fight-ukraine-296937

I read the article. So its all true what Putin says. There is no Russian army in Ukraine, only Volunteers without official status.

[krassavchick]

I read the article. So its all true what Putin says. There is no Russian army in Ukraine, only Volunteers without official status.

General Lentsov: in suitable separatist uniform and ushanka, and who was recognised on Russian social media.  Always good to go direct to the source in such matters.  The interview with 'him' starts at the 10 minute mark:

 

Now, compare him in uniform:

[krassavchick]

I read the article. So its all true what Putin says. There is no Russian army in Ukraine, only Volunteers without official status.

Some more Western propaganda: this time from the British Embassy in Kiev, showing photos of the Pantsir S-1, one of Russia's most advanced SAM systems;  hmmm, the separatists must have picked that up at the local rinok. 

https://twitter.com/ukinukraine

[WestCoast]

The fact that Manny titled this thread "The Western Propaganda Thread" says that he is biased against the west. If he was impartial he'd be able to give the thread an impartial title while still stating his support for Putin and all things Kremlin.

[TomT]

^  You're free to start your own thread and pick a title that suits you.

[Manny]

^  You're free to start your own thread and pick a title that suits you.

He likes to tag on to existing threads and make others do the work.

Maybe he should buy his own forum and he can then fill it with western propaganda he dredged from Google and thread titles of his choosing.

[WestCoast]

^  You're free to start your own thread and pick a title that suits you.

He likes to tag on to existing threads and make others do the work.

My post is the first in this thread, yet I didn't start this thread. If Manny is going to use someone's post to start a thread he should at least have the good manners to ask if they would like to have their post start the thread and allow them to name the thread. Manny's social filters obviously aren't functioning properly.

[Tom Cat]

http://rt.com/news/233231-putin-ukraine-conflict-west/

Seems the propaganda comes from both sides.

[andrewfi]

http://rt.com/news/233231-putin-ukraine-conflict-west/

Seems the propaganda comes from both sides.

What do you mean? The factual basis of each point in the article is clear (unless one's knowledge is deficient) the truce is largely holding, there's concrete evidence of NATO/US presence in Ukraine, plenty of concrete evidence of materiel from NATO sources and even agreements from NATO countries to supply Ukraine. Russia's perspective on Ukraine and the situation there has been clear and consistent.

While it is true that all stakeholders use news media to convey a chosen emotional response that is based upon talking points that may well be counterfactual this is not even close to being a good example. 

[Tom Cat]

http://rt.com/news/233231-putin-ukraine-conflict-west/

Seems the propaganda comes from both sides.

What do you mean? The factual basis of each point in the article is clear (unless one's knowledge is deficient) the truce is largely holding, there's concrete evidence of NATO/US presence in Ukraine, plenty of concrete evidence of materiel from NATO sources and even agreements from NATO countries to supply Ukraine. Russia's perspective on Ukraine and the situation there has been clear and consistent.

While it is true that all stakeholders use news media to convey a chosen emotional response that is based upon talking points that may well be counterfactual this is not even close to being a good example.

Andrew,
The emphasis on the west supplying weapons and arms is an exaggeration, in that the amount is minimal.

Putin has said if the United states supplies lethal weapons Russia would consider it an act of war.
Any weapon can be lethal, so why would Putin not be more assertive in challenging the west?
Russia is firmly in the driver's seat at this moment,so one would expect a much stronger reaction from the Russian side if there was concrete evidence of such weapons.

I would not expect Putin to lower himself to same level as the fine folks in Washington.

[cufflinks]

UK House of Lords admits culpability:

http://news.yahoo.com/errors-over-ukraine-catastrophic-uk-parliament-report-023746893.html

[Donhollio]

UK House of Lords admits culpability:

http://news.yahoo.com/errors-over-ukraine-catastrophic-uk-parliament-report-023746893.html

 Why politicians have never figured it out that dictators don't give a shit about their peoples suffering, so sanctions usually fail to reach their intended goals.  Why they think Putin is any different is wishful thinking he will play nice.

[WestCoast]

UK House of Lords admits culpability:

http://news.yahoo.com/errors-over-ukraine-catastrophic-uk-parliament-report-023746893.html

 Why politicians have never figured it out that dictators don't give a shit about their peoples suffering, so sanctions usually fail to reach their intended goals.  Why they think Putin is any different is wishful thinking he will play nice.

The report blames a decline in expertise on Russia in Britain's foreign office and other EU ministries for an inability to give an "authoritative response". How can there be a decline in expertise on Russia in countries such as Germany or Poland or Estonia, etc? German chancellor Angela Merkel speaks fluent Russian, she was raised in East Germany.

I doubt countries like Poland or Estonia or other FSU countries suffer from any lack of expertise on Russia. The report is the start of a series of BS reports that will be used to excuse the UK's inability to predict Russia's seizure of Crimea and part or most likely most of Ukraine.

Certainly after Russia seized Crimea it is just common sense that Russia would try to seize part of Ukraine for a land bridge to Crimea. After all, how would Russia get to Crimea but through Ukraine? It's not like Russia would rely on a single bridge to be built at some time in the future for their entry into and out of their new territory.   

[Manny]

http://rt.com/news/233231-putin-ukraine-conflict-west/

Seems the propaganda comes from both sides.

What do you mean? The factual basis of each point in the article is clear (unless one's knowledge is deficient) the truce is largely holding, there's concrete evidence of NATO/US presence in Ukraine, plenty of concrete evidence of materiel from NATO sources and even agreements from NATO countries to supply Ukraine. Russia's perspective on Ukraine and the situation there has been clear and consistent.

While it is true that all stakeholders use news media to convey a chosen emotional response that is based upon talking points that may well be counterfactual this is not even close to being a good example.

Andrew,
The emphasis on the west supplying weapons and arms is an exaggeration, in that the amount is minimal.

Putin has said if the United states supplies lethal weapons Russia would consider it an act of war.
Any weapon can be lethal, so why would Putin not be more assertive in challenging the west?
Russia is firmly in the driver's seat at this moment,so one would expect a much stronger reaction from the Russian side if there was concrete evidence of such weapons.

I would not expect Putin to lower himself to same level as the fine folks in Washington.

Much American kit captured from the Ukrainian army. Unlikely the western media will run this. Here is an example.





The joke on Twitter is the US is now the largest supplier of stuff to Novorossiya. Russians are tweeting @usarmy thanking them for the supplies.