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Author Topic: The Right Wing in Ukraine  (Read 7673 times)

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Offline Larry

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Re: The Right Wing in Ukraine
« Reply #50 on: September 30, 2014, 10:54:04 AM »
As for immigration problems in Europe there is no doubt a problem and it does need to be addressed; however, history has taught us that voting for parties with extreme ideologies isn't the answer.

If the politicians of the major parties refuse to do anything about the immigration problem over the course of years it's no wonder that voters will vote for parties that promise to do something about it.

As for the National Front in France, under Marine Le Pen's leadership the party has changed from the anti-semitism of Marine's father Jean-Marie Le Pen, the founder of the party. She has even publicly rebuked her father over statements he made.

So what's your solution then, bring back the KKK?

As far as I know the KKK never operated in Europe, so it couldn't really be brought back. 

But parties like Geert Wilder's Freedom Party in the Netherlands and UKIP in Britain are nothing like the KKK. They are the only sort of political parties willing to stop the continuing large-scale immigration of Muslims into Western Europe.  Whether you look at Sweden or Norway, or France, The Netherlands, or Britain, large immigration of Muslims from countries that are essentially run by standards that predate medieval times is harming the Western countries.  So many of these immigrants refuse to assimilate to Western values but instead want to establish enclaves where they get to impose sharia law.

I recently read that 91% of Egyptian women have suffered genital mutilation.  For those readers to whom this phrase isn't clear, it means that a girl is taken to have her clitoris cut off so that she doesn't receive pleasure from sex and thus runs less of a risk of what the Muslims call "dishonoring her family". Of course, for those girls who still have sex with a guy before marriage the Muslims have a more permanent remedy: the so-called "honor killing", done by the girls' brothers or father to remove the stain on the family's honor.

These things should have no place in a civilized Western country.  If the Muslims want to live in a country where these things are practiced, they should stay in their countries instead of moving to a Western country and establishing these backward, barbaric practices there.

Offline krassavchick

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Re: The Right Wing in Ukraine
« Reply #51 on: September 30, 2014, 12:14:40 PM »
As far as I know the KKK never operated in Europe, so it couldn't really be brought back. 

But parties like Geert Wilder's Freedom Party in the Netherlands and UKIP in Britain are nothing like the KKK. They are the only sort of political parties willing to stop the continuing large-scale immigration of Muslims into Western Europe.  Whether you look at Sweden or Norway, or France, The Netherlands, or Britain, large immigration of Muslims from countries that are essentially run by standards that predate medieval times is harming the Western countries.  So many of these immigrants refuse to assimilate to Western values but instead want to establish enclaves where they get to impose sharia law.

I recently read that 91% of Egyptian women have suffered genital mutilation.  For those readers to whom this phrase isn't clear, it means that a girl is taken to have her clitoris cut off so that she doesn't receive pleasure from sex and thus runs less of a risk of what the Muslims call "dishonoring her family". Of course, for those girls who still have sex with a guy before marriage the Muslims have a more permanent remedy: the so-called "honor killing", done by the girls' brothers or father to remove the stain on the family's honor.

These things should have no place in a civilized Western country.  If the Muslims want to live in a country where these things are practiced, they should stay in their countries instead of moving to a Western country and establishing these backward, barbaric practices there.

The KKK comment was sarcastic one,  i thought you might have picked up on that.  Tackling the problem of mass immigration and more importantly integration into the country is something I agree with, lets get that clear; however, with parties like the UKIP you get no shortage of statements like these which undermine their main selling point:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2250114/UKIP-candidate-sparks-outrage-calling-compulsory-abortion-foetus-Downs-syndrome-spina-bifida.html
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/ugly-face-ukip-sunday-mirror-1531879

Now, if statements like that are your thing fine, each to their own [there are more but I can't be bothered looking].  Promising to tackle the  immigration problem is a good thing but that's all they are, promises.  This sums it up quite well:
Quote
The UKIP's manifesto is a collection of promises selected, seemingly, on the basis of twenty things that really annoy people, with no inkling of implementation method or any costings; a wish list for The Annoyed.


http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2013/02/ukip-party-bigots-lets-look-evidence

Still, if people vote for them that's their choice.  The discussion on the Islamification of Europe/the World is a total sidetrack to the original point I was making about the 'Nazi government' in Ukraine.  Anyone with a logical mind knows Sharia law doesn't belong in a civilized society.  The same way that it is obvious to those who choose not to believe Russian propaganda, that Nazis are not running Kiev.   

Offline Larry

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Re: The Right Wing in Ukraine
« Reply #52 on: September 30, 2014, 12:24:42 PM »
.. Tackling the problem of mass immigration and more importantly integration into the country is something I agree with, lets get that clear; however, with parties like the UKIP you get no shortage of statements like these which undermine their main selling point:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2250114/UKIP-candidate-sparks-outrage-calling-compulsory-abortion-foetus-Downs-syndrome-spina-bifida.html
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/ugly-face-ukip-sunday-mirror-1531879

Now, if statements like that are your thing fine, each to their own [there are more but I can't be bothered looking]. 

I don't agree with that guy's position.  If I were a British voter I would still vote UKIP though, even if the party has some politicians with whom I disagree on some issues, and even if some/many of their promises haven't been kept.  At least they disagree with the wave of Islamic immigration and they object to more and more rule from Brussels.  The two major parties have been in power and either done nothing to stop these things or have actively encouraged them.

Quote
The discussion on the Islamification of Europe/the World is a total sidetrack to the original point I was making about the 'Nazi government' in Ukraine.  Anyone with a logical mind knows Sharia law doesn't belong in a civilized society.  The same way that it is obvious to those who choose not to believe Russian propaganda, that Nazis are not running Kiev. 

Correct as to both counts.  No, I miscounted: all three points.


Online Guile

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Re: The Right Wing in Ukraine
« Reply #53 on: July 10, 2018, 07:30:55 PM »


 I also type over 100 wpm.  But if it makes you feel somehow superior to think otherwise, go ahead.  Your opinion means nothing to me.  You were an informant on your classmates in Soviet times, and now you are just a bitter old woman.



hahaha...I've heard this line before.  Who's the angry bitter old woman.  Addicted and loves to fight.

Online Guile

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Re: The Right Wing in Ukraine
« Reply #54 on: July 10, 2018, 07:31:59 PM »
  Really, I don't know why Halo bothers.

 I often find myself saying this as well. However I am glad someone has the patience to rehash the facts for the Putin sheep loyalists

+2 ....

Offline Texan77

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Re: The Right Wing in Ukraine
« Reply #55 on: July 13, 2018, 04:03:58 AM »
The massed graves if they exist are far more likely to be cause during the take over by the people's republic. That was the only time Ukrainians in the area were afraid of dying. It was never from the Ukraine government. My girl is from there. The real Nazi are in Moscow with Putin in full control. It is too bad that so many people believe this Russian propaganda.
3) There has been no "threat" to invade Ukraine. The US invented that and fed it to a complicit media.

Offline Steveboy

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Re: The Right Wing in Ukraine
« Reply #56 on: July 13, 2018, 04:39:21 AM »
The massed graves if they exist are far more likely to be cause during the take over by the people's republic. That was the only time Ukrainians in the area were afraid of dying. It was never from the Ukraine government. My girl is from there. The real Nazi are in Moscow with Putin in full control. It is too bad that so many people believe this Russian propaganda.

The real Nazi are in Moscow with Putin in full control. What planet are you on?? You are absolutely clueless ... If you wasn't you wouldn't be living in the US supporting a women in Ukraine...

 :dh:
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Offline Texan77

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Re: The Right Wing in Ukraine
« Reply #57 on: July 13, 2018, 05:12:36 AM »
Murdered reporters. Since 2000, 3 reporters have been murdered in USA. All crimes solved quickly. In Russia murdered reporters 34 and only three solved. Andrew wrote big thing about reporter deaths not taking account that there are far more reporters in the USA than in Russia simply we have more people in the USA. The death numbers of reporters in the two counties maybe the same when you look at foul play you get the real truth surface. Nazi like government in Russia not Ukraine. 
3) There has been no "threat" to invade Ukraine. The US invented that and fed it to a complicit media.

Offline Steveboy

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Re: The Right Wing in Ukraine
« Reply #58 on: July 13, 2018, 05:16:49 AM »
Murdered reporters. Since 2000, 3 reporters have been murdered in USA.

Murdered children in Russia 3 ...  Murdered Children in USA 679

 :thumbsup:  Viva the USA!!!
I support no government anywhere, ever, never. No institution, No religion!!

Online AvHdB

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Re: The Right Wing in Ukraine
« Reply #59 on: July 13, 2018, 05:56:01 AM »
Murdered reporters. Since 2000, 3 reporters have been murdered in USA. All crimes solved quickly. In Russia murdered reporters 34 and only three solved. Andrew wrote big thing about reporter deaths not taking account that there are far more reporters in the USA than in Russia simply we have more people in the USA. The death numbers of reporters in the two counties maybe the same when you look at foul play you get the real truth surface. Nazi like government in Russia not Ukraine.


I suspect far more persons younger than 18 have died this year than 679 in the United States.

Andrew has not written anything in rebuttal to what I pointed out him regarding journalists. Yes there are far more journalists in the United States than in Russia. A higher percentage die in Russia (not withstanding the tragedy in Annapolis) But if you want a dangerous job try being a journalist in South or Central America.

To compare Russia to the German Nazi government is incorrect. Putin is not comparable to Hitler, he might be manipulative. As well as assert his authority when he thinks it benefits his cause. But bear in mind his cause is the Russian people, and overall he has done a remarkable job at helping Russia.

Yes I do not like some of his actions, but they were done for the benefit of what he perceives is greater Russia.   
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Offline Bruce Lee

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Re: The Right Wing in Ukraine
« Reply #60 on: July 13, 2018, 06:09:39 AM »
It was never from the Ukraine government. My girl is from there. The real Nazi are in Moscow with Putin in full control.
Seriously and you really believe that (:)

There’s a fluffy place on the internet inhabited by loonies who used to post here that would high five you for rubbish like the above. Me thinks you’re in the wrong place fella.
If you get a minute check out Bruce's TR - Its not quite finished, however its still a pretty good read IMHO.

If I win the lottery I'll finish it this week if not I'll probably complete it when I retire!!! Until then I hope you enjoy the story so far!

Online andrewfi

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Re: The Right Wing in Ukraine
« Reply #61 on: July 13, 2018, 07:29:04 AM »
Bruce, I think it is sweet that he thinks he has a girl in Ukraine. :)

There's some folks who are more easily led than others. They need our protection.
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Offline Steveboy

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Re: The Right Wing in Ukraine
« Reply #62 on: July 13, 2018, 08:13:23 AM »
Bruce, I think it is sweet that he thinks he has a girl in Ukraine. :)

There's some folks who are more easily led than others. They need our protection.

He has no girl in Ukraine.. If you are not seeing here at least every month or  few weeks she ain't yours!! She's some one else's..

Its a business, lots of women have many guys who think they are "Their girl" I even know some that do it for a living.. If I was a women I probably would also.. not sure what I would do though when some old crudgger arrives and wants the sex..  (:)
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Offline Bruce Lee

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Re: The Right Wing in Ukraine
« Reply #63 on: July 13, 2018, 08:19:56 AM »
sure what I would do though when some old crudgger arrives and wants the sex..  (:)
Probably have a week long headache, time of the month, sick granny in a remote village, no holiday allowed at work!! Take your pick.
If you get a minute check out Bruce's TR - Its not quite finished, however its still a pretty good read IMHO.

If I win the lottery I'll finish it this week if not I'll probably complete it when I retire!!! Until then I hope you enjoy the story so far!

Online AvHdB

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Re: The Right Wing in Ukraine
« Reply #64 on: July 13, 2018, 05:10:19 PM »
I thought there was rule that we do not go to others relationships when posting.
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Offline dcguyusa

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Re: The Right Wing in Ukraine
« Reply #65 on: July 13, 2018, 06:14:12 PM »
Murdered reporters. Since 2000, 3 reporters have been murdered in USA.

Murdered children in Russia 3 ...  Murdered Children in USA 679

 :thumbsup:  Viva the USA!!!

The three murdered journalists was committed by a dude who filed a defamation lawsuit against the newspaper firm which got thrown out by the judge and he kept tabs on the company, disparaging the reporter who reported on his plea deal when he stalked a former female classmate.  He said the lawsuit was to show his side of the harassment issue, but the judge said that was not relevant for a defamation claim.  So it got tossed out.  He posted hateful online comments about the judge, the newspaper firm, and also got his former classmate fired from her job.  Of course, the dude was able to purchase firearms without any issue, so he purchased a shotgun which he used to blast his way into the office building that housed the newspaper company.  Cops arrived within minutes of the 911 calls and the dude just dropped his weapon and gave up hiding under a desk.  His last posted online message was directed to the guy who published the article (he no longer worked for the newspaper company) and said that today the newspaper reporter's name would become famous.
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Online AvHdB

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Re: The Right Wing in Ukraine
« Reply #66 on: July 14, 2018, 05:21:21 AM »
The so called Right Wing in Ukraine is far more convoluted and complex than a couple of posts here suggest. They are not Nazis any more than they are Communists. In fact if you brought half a dozen of them together you would be left with a bakers dozen of the there goals and opinions. But for a short while after Maidan they had seats in the Rada, now I believe 2 or 3 are remaining. A few of the origional members have moved to larger political clubs.
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Online Markje

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Re: The Right Wing in Ukraine
« Reply #67 on: July 14, 2018, 05:31:25 AM »
The so called Right Wing in Ukraine is far more convoluted and complex than a couple of posts here suggest. They are not Nazis any more than they are Communists. In fact if you brought half a dozen of them together you would be left with a bakers dozen of the there goals and opinions. But for a short while after Maidan they had seats in the Rada, now I believe 2 or 3 are remaining. A few of the origional members have moved to larger political clubs.

If they are not nazi then why do they take pics with the waffen ss logo. Their symbol includes the styled ss and they make the heil hitler salute. Their views are just as nazi. And thats what came up in 10 mins of googling.
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Online andrewfi

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Re: The Right Wing in Ukraine
« Reply #68 on: July 14, 2018, 06:36:43 AM »
Most of the adherents of these groups have no idea about politics. They are told what to think (just as elsewhere) so ideology is less important than what the groups do. As Mark notes they tend to cluster around Nazi symbology and even the brain dead understand that the meanings of that symbology are not positive, not lion sits down with lamb, kind of stuff.

Nice people do not join these organisations. As I noted 4 years ago, their power is not vested in the ballot box or parliamentary representation.
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Offline Contrarian

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Re: The Right Wing in Ukraine
« Reply #69 on: July 14, 2018, 11:06:00 AM »
Most of the adherents of these groups have no idea about politics. They are told what to think (just as elsewhere) so ideology is less important than what the groups do. As Mark notes they tend to cluster around Nazi symbology and even the brain dead understand that the meanings of that symbology are not positive, not lion sits down with lamb, kind of stuff.

Nice people do not join these organisations. As I noted 4 years ago, their power is not vested in the ballot box or parliamentary representation.

However do you believe that hammer and sickle symbology is positive, lion sits down with lamb kind of stuff?

Clearly groups which utilize what you’re calling Nazi symbols are doing it as a reaction to Communist symbology.

It were Communist groups which first committed genocide against others. It was Communist hordes which first invaded Ukraine and murdered millions.

Calling one group violent and ignoring the history of the other group is disingenuous at best.

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Re: The Right Wing in Ukraine
« Reply #70 on: July 14, 2018, 02:10:59 PM »
Most of the adherents of these groups have no idea about politics. They are told what to think (just as elsewhere) so ideology is less important than what the groups do. As Mark notes they tend to cluster around Nazi symbology and even the brain dead understand that the meanings of that symbology are not positive, not lion sits down with lamb, kind of stuff.

Nice people do not join these organisations. As I noted 4 years ago, their power is not vested in the ballot box or parliamentary representation.

However do you believe that hammer and sickle symbology is positive, lion sits down with lamb kind of stuff?

Clearly groups which utilize what you’re calling Nazi symbols are doing it as a reaction to Communist symbology.

It were Communist groups which first committed genocide against others. It was Communist hordes which first invaded Ukraine and murdered millions.

Calling one group violent and ignoring the history of the other group is disingenuous at best.

That only makes sense if theyre anti russian. Theyre not. Theyre anti muslim
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Re: The Right Wing in Ukraine
« Reply #71 on: July 14, 2018, 02:38:11 PM »
Most of the adherents of these groups have no idea about politics. They are told what to think (just as elsewhere) so ideology is less important than what the groups do. As Mark notes they tend to cluster around Nazi symbology and even the brain dead understand that the meanings of that symbology are not positive, not lion sits down with lamb, kind of stuff.

Nice people do not join these organisations. As I noted 4 years ago, their power is not vested in the ballot box or parliamentary representation.

However do you believe that hammer and sickle symbology is positive, lion sits down with lamb kind of stuff?

Clearly groups which utilize what you’re calling Nazi symbols are doing it as a reaction to Communist symbology.

It were Communist groups which first committed genocide against others. It was Communist hordes which first invaded Ukraine and murdered millions.

Calling one group violent and ignoring the history of the other group is disingenuous at best.

That only makes sense if theyre anti russian. Theyre not. Theyre anti muslim

Andrew sort has the point. They are not smart. They are frustrated anti everything, basically anarchists. The various groups have associated with the Nazi symbols because they are lazy. Yes they have a stonng anti Russian/Jewish rhetoric but it is the bleating of sheep.

I suspect this has grown out of a lack of progress in Kiev towards meaningful reforms as other Eastern European countries have done in one degree or the other.
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Re: The Right Wing in Ukraine
« Reply #72 on: July 14, 2018, 06:57:47 PM »
Confederate, I know that you try, and I give you credit for that. However, it is clear that you are missing some important stuff.

The hammer and sickle are not part of Russian symbology, they were a part of communist symbology. The hammer and sickle are tools, the first represents industry and the second represents agriculture.

In the good old days many of the Soviet leadership were Ukrainian and Ukraine benefited hugely from its Soviet association. At the time of the dissolution of the Soviet Union Ukraine had a higher standard of living than Russia and even today Russia is Ukraine's largest trading partner.

You seem to be having some fantasies that spring from your lack of knowledge. You can catch up though, if you try.

Avhdb, anarchism is a political movement, the right wing groups in Ukraine are not anarchist, their members are not anarchists. Anarchism is not about violence, theft, racism and bigotry.

Here in a few words is what anarchism is:

belief in the abolition of all government and the organization of society on a voluntary, cooperative basis without recourse to force or compulsion.

One would be hard pressed to recognise this as a significant movement in Ukraine and certainly not a part of those movements who revel in National Socialist inspired symbols, who laud National Socialist terrorists, who organise along lines devised by the National Socialist party in Germany.
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Re: The Right Wing in Ukraine
« Reply #73 on: July 14, 2018, 10:32:42 PM »
Confederate, I know that you try, and I give you credit for that. However, it is clear that you are missing some important stuff.

The hammer and sickle are not part of Russian symbology, they were a part of communist symbology. The hammer and sickle are tools, the first represents industry and the second represents agriculture.

In the good old days many of the Soviet leadership were Ukrainian and Ukraine benefited hugely from its Soviet association. At the time of the dissolution of the Soviet Union Ukraine had a higher standard of living than Russia and even today Russia is Ukraine's largest trading partner.

You seem to be having some fantasies that spring from your lack of knowledge. You can catch up though, if you try.

Avhdb, anarchism is a political movement, the right wing groups in Ukraine are not anarchist, their members are not anarchists. Anarchism is not about violence, theft, racism and bigotry.

Here in a few words is what anarchism is:

belief in the abolition of all government and the organization of society on a voluntary, cooperative basis without recourse to force or compulsion.

One would be hard pressed to recognise this as a significant movement in Ukraine and certainly not a part of those movements who revel in National Socialist inspired symbols, who laud National Socialist terrorists, who organise along lines devised by the National Socialist party in Germany.

I appreciate your attempt to give a lesson and although much of what you wrote is accurate the fact remains that what used to be Imperial Russia became the largest part of the Soviet Union.

You cannot talk about racism without acknowledging some Russians have an attitude of superiority towards Ukrainians.

Russian Communists deliberately starved millions of Ukrainians during Holodomor and to a lesser extent also some Russians.

Far more people were rounded up and killed by Soviet Communists although if Nazi Germany had won the war the opposite would likely be true.

Some of the symbols Ukrainians fight under are of Norse mythology. Both sides are capable of great violence however if you’re mentioning ethnic cleansing Grozny comes to mind, whoops!

Russia always claims they respect the sovereignty of other countries. With the exception of Ukraine and couple others.  :)

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Re: The Right Wing in Ukraine
« Reply #74 on: November 24, 2018, 02:29:00 PM »
Someone should have given a bit more thought before opening the KFC restaurant in the particular site.

https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/417998-new-kfc-opens-in-building-at-center-of-ukraine-revolution-spurs
Don't shoot the messenger, links to articles posted, don't necessarily reflect my personal opinion.