Why aren't young women interested in older men any more?

[BelleZeBoob]

Dear Ladies

I read an article recently which said that attractive young Russian/Ukrainian women sometimes work in the sex industry to pay for their university fees. I don't understand why they would do this. Wouldn't it be better to marry an older Western man and let him pay for everything?

Cheers, Fred
Older Western Guy

Working in the sex industry vs. marriage? Uhm, may be it was that retail has been less annoying than wholesale. 

[2tallbill]

Yes, I understand that, Tom, but why are so many young women going into the foreign sex trade? Is it preferable to old-fashioned marriage?

There were never a high percentage of FSUW who wanted older husbands. Some might
accept an older man but most always preferred a man close to their age.

The percentage of women in Russia who go into the sex trade is very small.
If I asked why do so many women in the USA go into the sex trade? you would
reply that most women in the USA would never consider going into the sex trade
and probably wouldn't make broad generalizations about US women based on the
few that do.

Go to a strip club and find out how many of the girls claim to be putting themselves
through college by stripping. Then ask them to see their student ID, or ask what
classes they are taking and you will find that 99% are lying and aren't students at
all.

[andrewfi]

I have never asked girls in US strip clubs what they do for a living however I can say that over here, in more than one country, while some girls do use being a student as a convenient cover story, it is actually very often true. Back in the the days when the economy was not as strong here as it is now there was a noticeable influx of girls from the colleges and Tartu, the main university city, into Tallinn during the summer break. They were not working in strip clubs.

[TomT]

... because the number of FSU women who are desperate to emigrate is a fraction of what it was in the 90s.

Yes, I understand that, Tom, but why are so many young women going into the foreign sex trade? Is it preferable to old-fashioned marriage?

In the first place, I think that the percentage of FSU girls in the sex trade is small. Even if they were plentiful, building a strategy around finding a sex worker, a would-be sex worker, or a girl who is willing to have sex with you as an alternative to being a sex worker isn't a good idea... unless you are indifferent to infidelity and the infections that often accompany it.

p.s.

Why did you write "anymore" as two words? Is that common in British English?

[andrewfi]

Tom, I can't speak for others but 'any more' is two separate words. For example: "I don't want any more thank you." we can see it is two words because we can actually use both of them separately in the sentence. Conjoining the words does not alter the meaning of the two separate words.

And, yes, I know that people use this construction often enough for some to suggest it is a valid usage. On that basis, if enough people say that 2+2=5 then surely it will become true. File under the same heading as moot/mute and I could care less - incorrect and the result of lots of lazy thinking.

Apparently New England is a New World bastion of correct usage wherein any & more are not conjoined.

[AJ]

Dear Ladies

I read an article recently which said that attractive young Russian/Ukrainian women sometimes work in the sex industry to pay for their university fees. I don't understand why they would do this. Wouldn't it be better to marry an older Western man and let him pay for everything?

Cheers, Fred
Older Western Guy

ummm   Fred  its fairly guaranteed your local strip club is full of young local women working their way through university,instead of marrying an older gentleman. sure its mostly a cover story,,but its often true as well -
Why would that be?
You'd have to ask them ,i'd assume its considered the better choice ,perhaps  from it being short term, and more on their terms. 

Keep in mind university is basically free in the parts of FSU you'd be looking and its not an attractive offer is it?

All that said i'm certain if setting up a business transaction /short term style marriage  a man could find women of any nationality open to such if looking hard enough.
 

But you would be delving in the murkiest waters of any given society ,is that what you aspire too?
The hooker with a heart gold ,ala Pretty Woman is a popular fairy tale in the FSU too, that doesnt change its simply a fairly tale.

[andrewfi]

AJ, I don't know about the US but in this part of the world a strip club is often seen by both clients and workers as a kind of introduction agency, a matchmaker if you will.

The girls are often seeking a substantial upgrade in life and lifestyle and there's one thing that is always true of the clients who go to these places - they have disposable cash, they like the girls who work there and they tend to be 'generous' rather than greedy. For their part the girls tend to be attractive, sociable, often pretty bright and 'realistic' about the attainment of their personal goals.

Obviously only a minority of the clients are actively seeking a relationship but I can assure you that both sides do seem to find each other and I know from first hand of the reality of the situation, albeit that these days I count myself as a retiree from the pursuit of girls from strip bars.

[AJ]

Agreed in general Andrew,
both sides of the equation know what they want and how to go about getting it,
very few on either side  would want a long term commitment of any kind ,monetary or lifestyle.

A  small percent might, perhaps consider that arrangement , so it seems the OP would be looking at a incredibly small pool of individuals in any population, and within that would be hoping for the julia roberts character , of that subset?
Thats just far from reality.

[leslied]

One of the more famous ladies who financed her post graduate studies by working as a call girl was Brooke Magnanti  who published two best selling novels on her experiences under the pseudonym "Belle de Jour"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belle_de_Jour_%28writer%29

She obviously squared off her undeclared earnings with the Inland Revenue and now works as a journalist for the Daily Telegraph.

The motivational profiles of sex workers are vastly different to those of younger women who aspire to improve their lifestyle by marriage to a wealthy guy.  To equate the two groups is simply stupid.

[andrewfi]

AJ, my guess, from what I have read is that our hero could not pull off that kind of relationship.

As for the short term aspect, there I'd say that you were wrong. My experience has been that whilst there are short term flings, sponsorships etc. that the women are often happy to seek out long term relationships and the men do as well.

An acquaintance, before her own marriage and parenthood, ran a business planning and managing weddings. She was kept pretty busy by her work. Her clientele was very largely couples where the woman was an erotic dancer.

Les, there are all sorts of 'sex workers' and even more different types of people involved in sex work. There's plenty of married men and women, mothers and fathers, lovers and friends.

Perhaps there is a tendency among some to overlay 'home grown' cultural and social stereotypes over foreign situations and environments.

[Boris]

Ukrainian society is not conservative.

It's far more conservative than the West. That's one of the reasons why jaded American males are so desperate to latch onto Ukrainian women as potential life partners.

As for why?  Why would laying under an old geezer your father's age or older, cooking his meals, cleaning for him, and dealing with his family, be a preferable choice?  It is still prostitution, just in a different form.

I'm afraid I have to disagree. Sharing your life and home with someone who honestly cares about you is not prostitution.

Also, why do you assume that the male is looking for a domestic slave? In the real world, the majority of Western men are willing to fulfill an equal share of the responsibilities. Not kidding.

You've been to Ukraine then? Please enlighten us on the conservatism of Ukrainian women as compared to Western women. I am interested in the details.

[WOVO]

Dear Ladies

I read an article recently which said that attractive young Russian/Ukrainian women sometimes work in the sex industry to pay for their university fees. I don't understand why they would do this. Wouldn't it be better to marry an older Western man and let him pay for everything?

Cheers, Fred
Older Western Guy

Would you like, if you have a daughter/granddaughter marrying grandfathers?

[AJ]

UW women do marry men a bit older than themselves ..but it isn't common.

When they do,of course there can be varied reasons, I'd assume for getting through a university among the very least likely.

[Anteros]

You mentioned previously that your "better half" is from Ukraine. Assuming you're male and she's female, do you treat her like a bonded servant?

Yes, we're into bondage.

    

[WOVO]

Dear Ladies

I read an article recently which said that attractive young Russian/Ukrainian women sometimes work in the sex industry to pay for their university fees. I don't understand why they would do this. Wouldn't it be better to marry an older Western man and let him pay for everything?

Cheers, Fred
Older Western Guy

To cut to the point, why would older men want to marry younger girls when they want to study at University.   Can't they wait till she finish her studying?   She is not an object !!!

[leslied]

Boris,

I think we can safely assume that the OP has no personal experience of any FSU country.

I disagree with the thread title "Why aren't young women interested in older men any more?" 

IMHO roughly the same number of Russian/Ukrainian women have a sincere interest in marriage to an older man now as they did 10 - 15 years ago.

The number of young women seeking a donkey to transport them out of their dire economic circumstances has fallen substantially in recent years.  There is no significant MOB industry in Russia any more.  However the economic situation in Ukraine will likely cause an increase.

Only a small percentage of young women will consider marriage to an older guy.  The trick is finding one of these women and that is no easy task...

Also it is not marriage to ANY older guy.  The man needs to be exceptional in many ways.  Fat, fifty and living in a double wide is never going to make it 

[Turboguy]

Would you like, if you have a daughter/granddaughter marrying grandfathers?

Which would you prefer.  Your daughter or granddaughter marrying a grandfather or her earning a nice living as a call girl?   I think that was the question from the OP.  Frankly neither option seems like one most would like but young women do have a mind of their own.

[TomT]

Tom, I can't speak for others but 'any more' is two separate words. For example: "I don't want any more thank you." we can see it is two words because we can actually use both of them separately in the sentence. Conjoining the words does not alter the meaning of the two separate words.

And, yes, I know that people use this construction often enough for some to suggest it is a valid usage. On that basis, if enough people say that 2+2=5 then surely it will become true. File under the same heading as moot/mute and I could care less - incorrect and the result of lots of lazy thinking.

Apparently New England is a New World bastion of correct usage wherein any & more are not conjoined.

Apparently, it's a Brit thing then. In the U.S., "anymore" is an adverb that refers to a previous status quo and "any more" is used as an adjective that refers to quantity. Ergo, the fellow is either a Limey, from a Limey colony or an illiterate American.

[Manny]

File under the same heading as "moot/mute" and "I could care less" - incorrect and the result of lots of lazy thinking.

I often wondered about those two grammatical mistakes that most Americans make.

[TomT]

"Jive/jibe..."

[Orchid]

...In the U.S., "anymore" is an adverb that refers to a previous status quo and "any more" is used as an adjective that refers to quantity...

Great explanation. Thank you.
I will keep it in mind.

[Anteros]

I am just curious and would prefer answers from FSU women who grew up there such as Orchid and Belle first of all; then anyone else who wants to answer as well.  Is a young lady who has a "sponsor" considered a "prostitute" in the FSU, or just a mistress? 

[FredHill]

Please enlighten us on the conservatism of Ukrainian women as compared to Western women. I am interested in the details.

Certainly, Boris.

The majority of FSU women have been raised in a patriarchal culture where second-wave feminism has never gained a significant foothold. Most have been raised from an early age to believe that females should occupy a nurturing, care-giving role within society, rather than compete with males for higher status positions. The emphasis is upon motherhood and domesticity, and many are actively discouraged from entering traditionally male-dominated occupations.

There is also covert pressure to accept anti-social behaviour from male partners, such as drug abuse, alcoholism, gambling and domestic violence. It's only quite recently that Eastern European women have begun to realize they have a wider range of options than their predecessors, and don't have to put up with lying, cheating, wife-beating scum-bags. This is, of course, a positive step for the entire culture, but unfortunately, the majority of the female population is still bound - to varying degrees - by decades-old traditions which condition them to accept secondary positions within society. Sad, but true all the same.

Naturally, such pressures also exist within North America and the UK, but at least the West has a strong feminist element to balance out the subliminal indoctrination.

However, to answer your question: yes, East European women possess a more conservative world view than those of the West. Studies have shown that they receive lower salaries than their male counterparts and have severely limited opportunities for career advancement. It has also been established that a vast number of Ukrainian women have been subjected to physical and sexual violence, usually the result of male aggression and alcohol consumption. Women on average earn 30 percent less than men within the work force, and are more likely to be laid off during times of economic downturn. At present, nearly 80 percent of Ukraine's unemployed demographic is female. Over 56 percent of all Ukrainian women are full time housewives. However, all of this is not the worst part.

The worst part is that these women are willing to accept such disparities, often without comment, because they are expected to do so. Why? They have been raised in a highly conservative and patriarchal environment which more or less programs them to suffer in silence.

Boris, you may not consider Ukrainian women to be conservative, but every available study says otherwise. If you can find a single report which states that FSU women are as politically, socially, or economically liberated as their Western counterparts, I'd be very interested in reading it.

[JayH]

You've been to Ukraine then? Please enlighten us on the conservatism of Ukrainian women as compared to Western women. I am interested in the details.

Fred--you seem to have missed the first part of the question Boris asked !!
The rest of your response has come from where? As I said earlier-- your comments gleaned from the internet mean zit.

[FredHill]

Keep in mind university is basically free in the parts of FSU

Quite true, AJ. Many countries within the FSU offer student loans, subsidies, and (in some cased) completely free tuition within their higher education system.

However, to the best of my knowledge, none of these cover basic living expenses. If a student comes from an economically impoverished background, he or she will still be facing an uphill battle, particularly if only one parent is working in a minimum income position. Under these circumstances, the student would feel considerable pressure to contribute economically.

Naturally, I imagine that scholarships would be available, but such grants are usually competitive, and not everyone can qualify. This leaves the student with the options of either being a burden on their household, seeking part time employment, or simply quitting university and attempt to enter the workforce.

The other alternative is to defer their course for a few years and try to save up the necessary funds. This is where the sex industry seeps into the equation. Attractive young woman, unemployed, questionable prospects, no marketable skills, impoverished background, desperate to improve her circumstances and earn enough money to complete her tertiary studies.

At least one user here has suggested that women go into prostitution for "free vacations" and "expensive shoes". Another suggested they enter the sex industry to fulfill some kind of fantasy. Both of them are wrong.

I've spent close on two decades on the Asia-Pacific rim, and I know for fact that women go into prostitution out of sheer desperation. Some do it to support their parents, others to feed their children. Prostitution isn't some kind of Julia Roberts fairy tale; it's grim, pragmatic reality of the worst kind.

That said, let me repeat my original question.

Given the circumstances, why have young FSU women lost interest in older men? I can't claim to know how any female thinks, but I simply can't see how marriage to a generous, good-natured guy in his late 40s would be more degrading than selling her body in a foreign brothel.