The World's #1 Russian, Ukrainian & Eastern European Discussion & Information Forum - RUA!

This Is the Premier Discussion Forum on the Net for Information and Discussion about Russia, Ukraine, Eastern Europe and the Former Soviet Union. Discuss Culture, Politics, Travelling, Language, International Relationships and More. Chat with Travellers, Locals, Residents and Expats. Ask and Answer Questions about Travel, Culture, Relationships, Applying for Visas, Translators, Interpreters, and More. Give Advice, Read Trip Reports, Share Experiences and Make Friends.

Author Topic: MH17 - update ?  (Read 21224 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Online Markje

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5972
  • Country: nl
  • Gender: Male
  • MCMLXXIV
    • Mark's unix pages
  • Spouses Country: Crimea
  • Status: Married
  • Trips: 20+
Re: MH17 - update ?
« Reply #495 on: July 17, 2017, 03:25:38 PM »
MH17 tragedy: Key questions remain unanswered as int’l probe enters 4th year

https://www.rt.com/news/396549-mh17-crash-anniversary-probe/
Thats because they keep digging in the wrong place.

Somewhere this is going to be buried as 'suspects' are in a non-extradition treaty country, we tried it all but have convicted them in absence.

Press is already preparing for the scenario by running what-if stories on this exact point.
You can change anything in life, but a BMW only for a BMW
My first trip to my wife: To Evpatoria!
My road trip to Crimea: Roadtrip to Evpatoria

Online Texan77

  • Supporting Member
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1080
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
  • Status: Committed
  • Trips: 5-10

Online Markje

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5972
  • Country: nl
  • Gender: Male
  • MCMLXXIV
    • Mark's unix pages
  • Spouses Country: Crimea
  • Status: Married
  • Trips: 20+
Re: MH17 - update ?
« Reply #497 on: December 11, 2017, 12:44:58 AM »
New news story on MH-17.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/russian-general-idd-ordering-actions-before-downing-of-malaysian-passenger-jet/ar-BBGpmrR?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=U218DHP
Dutch newspapers (and my eyes nearly popped out when I read it) said Bellingcat was wrong. The man on the tapes is not the general.

Usually its an uphill battle if you try to go against MSM... it was so refreshing to read MSM with my point of view.


Also, its quite easy to hear this yourself. The man on the tapes has a much more nasal voice than the Gen.

Mark.
You can change anything in life, but a BMW only for a BMW
My first trip to my wife: To Evpatoria!
My road trip to Crimea: Roadtrip to Evpatoria


Offline Ste

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5165
  • Country: ie
  • Gender: Male
  • Beware of Muslamic Rayguns
  • Spouses Country: The Planet Zanussi
  • Status: Committed
  • Trips: 5-10
Re: MH17 - update ?
« Reply #498 on: May 24, 2018, 05:18:40 AM »
BUK that downed MH17 belonged to Russian Brigade, Dutch investigators reveal.

Must have been stolen but Ukrainians....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-44235402
O pointy birds, o pointy pointy, Anoint my head, anointy-nointy.

Online msmoby

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 6950
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouses Country: Russia
  • Status: Committed
  • Trips: 20+
Re: MH17 - update ?
« Reply #499 on: May 24, 2018, 06:45:22 AM »
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/mh17-missile-ukraine-2014-russia-military-netherlands-deaths-investigation-a8366721.html

"Wilbert Paulissen, head of the Dutch National Police’s crime squad, said the Buk missile was from the 53rd anti-aircraft missile brigade, which is based in the Russian city of Kursk."


Online Bruce Lee

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2569
  • Country: england
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouses Country: Russia
  • Status: Married
  • Trips: 5-10
Re: MH17 - update ?
« Reply #500 on: May 24, 2018, 10:15:19 AM »
I dare say the crew over at the other place must be salivating over this news
If you get a minute check out Bruce's TR - Its not quite finished, however its still a pretty good read IMHO.

If I win the lottery I'll finish it this week if not I'll probably complete it when I retire!!! Until then I hope you enjoy the story so far!

Online andrewfi

  • Supporting Member
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 16501
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
    • Articles About Almost Anything!
Re: MH17 - update ?
« Reply #501 on: May 24, 2018, 10:24:29 AM »
A closer look at the story tells all. This claim is based, again, on 'social media' reporting from Ukrainian sources. Remember those videos claiming to show that which they didn't - that's this.

If the term was not so overused one might use the words 'fake news'.
"For what else is the life of man but a kind of play in which men in various costumes perform until the director motions them offstage?" -Erasmus

Online Wiz

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2296
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
    • Greek Home Cookery
  • Spouses Country: Russia
  • Status: Married
  • Trips: 20+
Re: MH17 - update ?
« Reply #502 on: May 24, 2018, 02:30:28 PM »
Do you remember the Bellingcut "expert"?

Take a read on this....... Eliot Higgins of Bellingcat...

https://thetruthspeaker.co/2016/02/28/eliot-higgins-of-bellingcat-who-is-he-everything-you-need-to-know/

and if you have time... read this too!  "MH17: The Buk videos are fake"

http://energia.su/mh17/buk_vids/fake_buk_vids.html

The fact remains, in my view that, Ukraine is responsible of whatever took place because  the plane was flying at its airspace, according to International Law.

In a previous post  on this thread I posted the views of a German Lawyer, specialising in such affairs.

 :coffeeread:

"If you enjoy eating healthy food, visit: www.greekcooking.uk


Online dcguyusa

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 891
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouses Country: North America, South America, Europe, Asia
  • Status: Just Looking
  • Trips: None Yet
Re: MH17 - update ?
« Reply #503 on: May 24, 2018, 04:28:12 PM »
Quote
The fact remains, in my view that, Ukraine is responsible of whatever took place because  the plane was flying at its airspace, according to International Law.

If you follow this logic, then all planes downed within the borders of any given country would be the responsibility of that country.  The Lockerbie, Scotland Pan Am plane incident is the responsibility of Scotland.  The Iran Air plane that was hit by a missile traveling towards Dubai and therefore Iran is responsible.

Online msmoby

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 6950
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouses Country: Russia
  • Status: Committed
  • Trips: 20+
Re: MH17 - update ?
« Reply #504 on: May 24, 2018, 04:29:46 PM »
A closer look at the story tells all. This claim is based, again, on 'social media' reporting from Ukrainian sources. Remember those videos claiming to show that which they didn't - that's this.

If the term was not so overused one might use the words 'fake news'.

Incorrect

You clearly haven't read the article..  Is Kursk in Ukraine ?   The social media accounts used to help prove this 'clandestine cock up' included RUSSIAN  service personnel with accounts on RUSSIAN social media

It's really sad to see people suggesting a degree of intelligence proving they are nothing but 'useful idiots'  as ANYONE who was paying attention that week will know that there was one HELL of a lot of deletions and back-tracking from the 'rebels' and RU media, followed by a series of ludicrous 'explanations'





 

Online msmoby

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 6950
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouses Country: Russia
  • Status: Committed
  • Trips: 20+
Re: MH17 - update ?
« Reply #505 on: May 24, 2018, 04:38:03 PM »


The fact remains, in my view that, Ukraine is responsible of whatever took place because  the plane was flying at its airspace, according to International Law.

In a previous post  on this thread I posted the views of a German Lawyer, specialising in such affairs.



Apart from Wiz' FAIL in dissing factual evidence as to who was responsible for firing the missile, he IS correct that Kyiv should have closed that airspace.

Two UA military aircraft had been hit on Monday 14th and Wednesday 16th - terminating military flight activity in Donbas on the eve of 16th July  - until they figured out what to do about radar guided surface to air  missiles being used. 

A minimum ceiling of 30,000m was not safe from such weapons

Firms like BA had re-routed south - more costly - and cheapskate airlines that still flew over the region - bearing in mind the 2 hits at great height should have re-routed, too

Madness


Offline AvHdB

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 10552
  • Country: nl
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouses Country: Ukraine, Kiev
  • Status: Married
  • Trips: 20+
Re: MH17 - update ?
« Reply #506 on: May 24, 2018, 07:06:13 PM »
Quote
The fact remains, in my view that, Ukraine is responsible of whatever took place because  the plane was flying at its airspace, according to International Law.

If you follow this logic, then all planes downed within the borders of any given country would be the responsibility of that country.  The Lockerbie, Scotland Pan Am plane incident is the responsibility of Scotland.  The Iran Air plane that was hit by a missile traveling towards Dubai and therefore Iran is responsible.

The reality is common sense and logic with regards to Wiz postings are disconnected.

But there are to many incongruities in the Russian explanations and excuses. There is too much smoke.

Certainly Ukraine during this period failed in a big way.
“If you aren't in over your head, how do you know how tall you are?” T.S. Eliot

Online Wiz

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2296
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
    • Greek Home Cookery
  • Spouses Country: Russia
  • Status: Married
  • Trips: 20+
Re: MH17 - update ?
« Reply #507 on: May 25, 2018, 12:37:24 AM »
Quote
The fact remains, in my view that, Ukraine is responsible of whatever took place because  the plane was flying at its airspace, according to International Law.

If you follow this logic, then all planes downed within the borders of any given country would be the responsibility of that country.  The Lockerbie, Scotland Pan Am plane incident is the responsibility of Scotland.  The Iran Air plane that was hit by a missile traveling towards Dubai and therefore Iran is responsible.

The reality is common sense and logic with regards to Wiz postings are disconnected.

But there are to many incongruities in the Russian explanations and excuses. There is too much smoke.

Certainly Ukraine during this period failed in a big way.

Sorry "Lion AV" but you are disconnected from common sense and Logic and not me but obviously you are blind or living in a world of your own in the company or your wine bottle companion.

1) When a plane flies on the airspace of a country the National Air control of the country is responsible for the safe passage of the plane until the plane is handed over to the next air control system.

It has been already confirmed that the Kiev air control ordered the Plane to go North, instead of going south, like all other flights did on the same day, in the full knowledge that the flight will pass over a war zone......therefore responsibility lies with Kiev no matter the hight of the plane. It's that Simple. Do you remember who was/is in charge of the Ukraine Government?

If you have "Radar 24"..... just go and have a look to see how many flights going over Syria and you will be surprised to notice the stream of flights coming  from Asia countries going over Iran, Armenia etc but not over Syria and very few over IsraHell.

2) The Pan Am Lockerbie disaster, was not flying over a war zone and the UK could not be held responsible for the explosion in its luggage compartment and as you must know it has proven beyond any doubt who put the explosives on the plane.

Didn't the US bombed Candafy's compound and killed his young son before even any official reports given out?

3) The Iran Air plane was hit by a US missile traveling towards Dubai and therefore Iran was not responsible, because the Iran air control  announced that was a US Rocket that hit the plane. Actually the US have not admitted guild, yet, or paid any compensation.

4) MH 17, flight. No matter what the Russians have produced in public etc,  I don't remember the USA announcing anything or giving any substantial evidence...... despite their superior satellite and any other electronic operations..... and makes us wonder why?

Why Russia was not invited to the investigation and Ukraine, a prime suspect it's part of it and as the Plane was an American made.... why the US experts were not invited too?

As I understand all (your) western Media relied on the expert opinions and evidence of Elliot at Bellingcat, who has been proved to be a Bullshitter and probably financed by certain people....... ???

It is early in the morning and I drink coffee and not wine.... so my brain is wide awake and working very well and my common sense is telling me that, 4 years down the line......somebody without concrete evidence, is trying to blame Russia and of course Putin too. Isn't  that also a coincidence?

Taken into consideration the Ukraine putsch, the Scripal case, Syria's false chemical attack and now cancellation of the meeting with Kim from N Korea..... all the indication are that the AngloZionist Empire is at it's last legs.....will do everything to survive and will not hesitate to destroy all economies on our planet.

 :evilgrin0002:  :fighting0025:
"If you enjoy eating healthy food, visit: www.greekcooking.uk


Online msmoby

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 6950
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouses Country: Russia
  • Status: Committed
  • Trips: 20+
Re: MH17 - update ?
« Reply #508 on: May 25, 2018, 02:05:53 AM »

It is early in the morning and I drink coffee and not wine.... so my brain is wide awake


CLEARLY, not ..

You just posted a whopping porky re the route MH-17 was ordered to take in comparison with other flights that day.

WHY do you tell such fibs - they are so easy to bust... I'm busy today -- but will post the relevant section of the JIT report that busts you, within 48 hours

AGAIN, the airspace over  Donbas should have been closed - but to suggest only one plane was routed in such a way to put it in a pla ce to be shot down ...  :'(

I'll give you a little clue ... The flight crew asked for a certain routing and the Ukrainian ATC concurred  :coffeeread:


Offline Ste

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5165
  • Country: ie
  • Gender: Male
  • Beware of Muslamic Rayguns
  • Spouses Country: The Planet Zanussi
  • Status: Committed
  • Trips: 5-10
Re: MH17 - update ?
« Reply #509 on: May 25, 2018, 03:22:48 AM »
More..

MH17: Russia 'liable' for downing airliner over Ukraine

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-44252150

Remember that as well as Russian soldiers helping pro-Russian rebel’s on their holidays, seems the BUK SAM in question chose conflict zone Eastern Ukraine for its holidays too. 

“Arrived here in <censored>, in a field shot a <censored> down by accident, thought it was a <censored>, back next week before spotted by <censored>.

Wish you were here.

Your loving BUK”
O pointy birds, o pointy pointy, Anoint my head, anointy-nointy.