MH17 - update ?

[AvHdB]

Wiz,

Elsewhere I noted that both Mr. & Mrs. Poroshenko attended Easter services in Kiev this year. I wonder why you think he is Jewish? Bear in mind slandering is not acceptable behavior. Perhaps that anyone who challenges your twisted logic must be Jewish?

As for a putsch it is wonderful that you think this but an examination of the time line would point to a different reality. It will be amusing to see you dig your self further in though so feel free to continue.

 

[msmoby]

That is true, and then there's the useful idiots contaminating the small amount we -do- have, like Bellincat.

First I thought he was good, then I thought he was an idiot missing the obvious, now I know he's on NATO's payroll....

OMG, is your info as 'accurate' as you telling us what your military intelligence said, when they seem to have said the oppose in the JIT report ?

The 'useful idiots' - an expression invented by Stalin - would seem to be as easily influenced by this maskirovka...

[msmoby]

But you left out the American Duck, who was responsible for the putsch and installed the Poroshenko Government and has been controlling Kiev ever since.

Wiz,

Unlike you, most of us can see that Kiev was being courted by the west and Moscow was none too pleased to lose yet another sphere of influence.

We've seen Putin visit and directly  suggest Yanu' was the man, too. Followed by corrupt election results and court cases, and revolutions. We've seen the Kremlin threaten Kiev - while Yanu' was still in charge - by demonstrating 'how it might be' - effectively closing the border to commercial traffic - for a week in Aug'13 - if Kiev dared to sign the EU association agreement.

As for 'putsches' .. any one still believing THAT - after Parliamentary and Presidential elections demonstrated support - other than in Donbas / Crimea - where the 'anti-maiden' and 'Nazi' bollox was believed  - hasn't checked the election results of Ukraine..

May I remind that the CIA Director John Brennan visited Kiev on the 12 April 2014 to advice Kiev and provide some special assistance. Why CIA Director Brennan Visited Kiev.

So ? the Kremlin sent GRU to visit- uninvited by Kiev - in Crimea and Donbas - and if you speak of self-determination - I will remind you that Chenens know that that only applies if wanting to join the RF.. not that promotion - in the media - of ceding from the RF is legal ...

Do you remember that after a couple of days Kiev started bombing Dombass very heavily, killing many innocent people?

I remember that the first to die were those who members of the Party of Regions - like Vlodomr(sp?) Rybak in Donetsk - who objected to armed folk taking over the city offices.

There'd been political murders - by both extremes for some time...

So what exactly it was the purpose of his trip and then after the downing of the MH17 airliner, how do we know that the CIA had not planned this operation?

Rii-ight ? So, the CIA visit and it's 'Kiev's fault' they were losing planes over Donbas to BUK systems launched missiles THREE months later ..?  Perhaps the visit coincided with insurrections in Donbas .. did you ever stop to think of that ?

Why the US has not released any serious Data, like the Russians did?

Wrong .. the US has released data to the JIT and the Russians ( and Ukrainians )  denied having any radar data, yet Moscow  told us  on Monday 21st July - 4 days after - that they had 'proof' of 2 SU-25 'fighters' climbing to intercept .. then they didn't have any - then they did ..

As we have explained Andrew and me, the prime responsibility lies in the door of KIEV and implicates the Khazar Jew Porosenko who took over, after the American Putsch in Ukraine. Poroshenko is the main Culprit and maybe one day we will find the full truth, after many years.

Ukraine is certainly guilty for not closing the airspace - having lost two aircraft and even suspending military operations on the 16th July ( they set a minimum ceiling ) that was well within reach of a ground launched radar guided system) - after losing the second plane - but as for the rest of your 'info' - it is as flawed and biased as usual... if not downright anti-Semitic

 

That is why the Zionist Trolls avoid making references or answering any straight questions. Obviously they are following orders of the Jewish ADL

Have you noticed the arrival of the Zionist change of the Troll shift? 

I have noticed the need to control the news ...avoiding members seeing the straight answers   

So, I'm already  a 'russophobe', 'Muzzie-lover'  and now a 'zionist'  ? 

[el_guero]

Wiz,

Elsewhere I noted that both Mr. & Mrs. Poroshenko attended Easter services in Kiev this year. I wonder why you think he is Jewish? Bear in mind slandering is not acceptable behavior. Perhaps that anyone who challenges your twisted logic must be Jewish?

As for a putsch it is wonderful that you think this but an examination of the time line would point to a different reality. It will be amusing to see you dig your self further in though so feel free to continue.

 

The SAME propaganda Andrew is referring to.

[el_guero]

Andrew?

As always, your answer is well thought out and full of logic. But, as you occasionally do, I think you misused logic.

Answer every supposed point you make for the Russians against your pseudo 'rebel?'

WHAT THREE THINGS DOES ANYONE GAIN FROM SLAUGHTERING A PLANE LOAD OF CIVILIANS?

HERE ARE THE FACTS:

There was a civilian airliner in the air.

There was a Ukrainian 'fighter' in the air.

Someone shot the airliner down.

The Russians claim a neutered Ukrainian BUK shot down the airliner, OR the ground attack 'fighter' shot down the airliner. The Frogfoot did NOT have air to air missiles.

BUT, the RUSSIAN BUK unit immediately LEFT Ukraine.

The most likely scenario? The BUK Unit thought they were engaging a Ukrainian plane, and accidentally hit the wrong target.

Your straw man of needing 3 things the 'Russians would gain' is not needed. I know the things Russian gained by invading Ukraine, do you?

In War accidents happen, when they do happen: it is like looking at a pack of dogs when an old woman throws a rock in the pack; the one that yelps the loudest (reacts) is the one that got hit.

Only Russian troops moved quickly ... Not the rebels, not the Ukrainians. No one else 'knew' what happened. They were surprised by the accident. The Russians 'knew' the accident and did the NORMAL OPERATING PROCEDURE FOR ALL SURFACE TO AIR BATTERIES.

MOVE AFTER LAUNCH.

As they moved, Russian Air Control said move home now.

[Wiz]

Wiz,

Elsewhere I noted that both Mr. & Mrs. Poroshenko attended Easter services in Kiev this year. I wonder why you think he is Jewish? Bear in mind slandering is not acceptable behavior. Perhaps that anyone who challenges your twisted logic must be Jewish?

As for a putsch it is wonderful that you think this but an examination of the time line would point to a different reality. It will be amusing to see you dig your self further in though so feel free to continue.

 

So if I call you bloody Greek ..... it's a slander?     What a lot of bollox !!!!

The truth of the matter is when I asked you a straight question.....you could not answer straight because you knew I was right!

In actual fact it is you and your troll friends who try to twist everything to avoid the truth.

In all my posts on this subject..... never went any further then asking the same question.....who controls the airspace and traffic .... then he is the guilty party.

It is you and your twisted mind that creates all these long stories, when you know who is behind all and it's not the Russians.

Who has not offered any clear evidence about the episode and why?

It is the US who obviously have something to hide. That is the fact. Simple.

About Poroshenko I have read it in a Jewish site.......make a search but I am sure already you know!
https://www.breakingisraelnews.com/58633/ukrainian-president-petro-poroshenkos-jewish-enigma-jewish-world/

"The most common theory is that his Jewish father, Alexander Valtsman from Odessa, took on the last name of his wife, Yevgenya Poroshenko, in 1956."


 

[msmoby]

Wiz,

I'm just wondering if you've actually READ the Joint Investigation Team report re MH-17 ? .... IF you had , you wouldn't be posting bollox...

It clearly says that the US provided data and the Dutch Military Intelligence concurred with the findings ..... 

[AvHdB]

About Poroshenko I have read it in a Jewish site.......make a search but I am sure already you know!
https://www.breakingisraelnews.com/58633/ukrainian-president-petro-poroshenkos-jewish-enigma-jewish-world/

"The most common theory is that his Jewish father, Alexander Valtsman from Odessa, took on the last name of his wife, Yevgenya Poroshenko, in 1956."

Wiz,

Following an auction on line. But to whittle away time and because I was curious I searched for any affirmation that the elected President of Ukraine is Jewish. Simply said there is none, the article you only confirms this and suggests that most of the rumours are pure speculation. As I have noted on other threads I dated a woman in Kiev who was in fact Jewish, on her mothers side (she told me) the odd thing other posters on RUA said this was impossible.

But I a curious does it really matter whether one is one religion or another?

NB: Perhaps move the above posts to the Moby-Wiz thread. It has nothing to do with the MH 17.
 

[Wiz]

Wiz,

I'm just wondering if you've actually READ the Joint Investigation Team report re MH-17 ? .... IF you had , you wouldn't be posting bollox...

It clearly says that the US provided data and the Dutch Military Intelligence concurred with the findings .....

Moby

I made my position clear in my previous post:

In all my posts on this subject..... never went any further then asking the same question.....who controls the airspace and traffic .... then he is the guilty party.

I have read the report sometime ago but I can't remember everything.

On the other hand, should I trust the American (secret) Data just because the Dutch  Military Intelligence agree?

Why they have invited Ukraine but Not the Russians to the investigation?

How can you tell that there is not collusion between US and the Dutch investigators to produce a damning report against Russia.?

I do not trust anybody anymore and we have to see the final report.

PS: Read this article and you will understand why I do not trust anybody, including you!

How the CIA hides its tracks

Regarding your other long slicing post..... same old BS !

[Tom Cat]

Dutch to try suspects in Malaysia flight downed in Ukraine

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/dutch-suspects-malaysia-flight-downed-ukraine-48445155

[msmoby]

Dutch to try suspects in Malaysia flight downed in Ukraine

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/dutch-suspects-malaysia-flight-downed-ukraine-48445155

1/ and why not ... the Dutch lost most citizens?

2/ ..not that the nation from whence many of these citizens live will allow them to attend ... given they have already vetoed a UN Sec Council proposed Intl tribunal .....   

[Markje]

Wiz,

I'm just wondering if you've actually READ the Joint Investigation Team report re MH-17 ? .... IF you had , you wouldn't be posting bollox...

It clearly says that the US provided data and the Dutch Military Intelligence concurred with the findings .....

Yes, the Dutch played a clever little trick there. the MIVD report says no such things, but since its not available in English you'd need to read/write dutch almost fluently to see that.

Oh well, one more for the information war.

Mark.

[rosco]

Wiz,

I'm just wondering if you've actually READ the Joint Investigation Team report re MH-17 ? .... IF you had , you wouldn't be posting bollox...

It clearly says that the US provided data and the Dutch Military Intelligence concurred with the findings .....

Yes, the Dutch played a clever little trick there. the MIVD report says no such things, but since its not available in English you'd need to read/write dutch almost fluently to see that.

Oh well, one more for the information war.

Mark.

 

[Markje]

Wiz,

I'm just wondering if you've actually READ the Joint Investigation Team report re MH-17 ? .... IF you had , you wouldn't be posting bollox...

It clearly says that the US provided data and the Dutch Military Intelligence concurred with the findings .....

Yes, the Dutch played a clever little trick there. the MIVD report says no such things, but since its not available in English you'd need to read/write dutch almost fluently to see that.

Oh well, one more for the information war.

Mark.

 

Here's the MIVD report for those who wish to read it for themselves:

click here to download

Page 22-24 is the interesting stuff. It basicly says the MIVD was activly monitoring Russia and said Klimkin lied about some earlier shoot-down of a jet that "proved" a buk was in the area.

It also explicitly and in great detail lays out how/when/where the seperatists could have gotten their hands on a buk-rocket and concluded it wasn't there.

[Wiz]

Wiz,

I'm just wondering if you've actually READ the Joint Investigation Team report re MH-17 ? .... IF you had , you wouldn't be posting bollox...

It clearly says that the US provided data and the Dutch Military Intelligence concurred with the findings .....

Yes, the Dutch played a clever little trick there. the MIVD report says no such things, but since its not available in English you'd need to read/write dutch almost fluently to see that.

Oh well, one more for the information war.

Mark.

 

If I was you .... I would not laugh ........ as Moby has access to inside information, unlike you and me and all others....... especially right now that he is on an errant job...... at his favourite country.......Russia!
 

[msmoby]

Yes, the Dutch played a clever little trick there. the MIVD report says no such things, but since its not available in English you'd need to read/write dutch almost fluently to see that.

Oh well, one more for the information war.

Mark.

NO, they didn't ....the report is in Dutch, too ...AND I have read your link to a newspaper report

[msmoby]

If I was you .... I would not laugh ........ as Moby has access to inside information, unlike you and me and all others....... especially right now that he is on an errant job...... at his favourite country.......Russia!

'Moby' has access to EXACTLY the same info you have, Wiz... I just read it all  .. 

[Markje]

Yes, the Dutch played a clever little trick there. the MIVD report says no such things, but since its not available in English you'd need to read/write dutch almost fluently to see that.

Oh well, one more for the information war.

Mark.

NO, they didn't ....the report is in Dutch, too ...AND I have read your link to a newspaper report

I dont see what your reply is tryng to say.

[msmoby]

Three years on and those responsible are likely to be tried in their absence

Today, the father of a British victim Ben Pocock - from Bristol - will be in Amsterdam for a memorial service

http://www.smh.com.au/world/mh17-memorial-opens-in-amsterdam-on-the-third-anniversary-of-disaster-20170716-gxcg3q.html

[Tom Cat]

MH17 tragedy: Key questions remain unanswered as int’l probe enters 4th year

https://www.rt.com/news/396549-mh17-crash-anniversary-probe/

[Markje]

MH17 tragedy: Key questions remain unanswered as int’l probe enters 4th year

https://www.rt.com/news/396549-mh17-crash-anniversary-probe/

Thats because they keep digging in the wrong place.

Somewhere this is going to be buried as 'suspects' are in a non-extradition treaty country, we tried it all but have convicted them in absence.

Press is already preparing for the scenario by running what-if stories on this exact point.

[Texan77]

New news story on MH-17.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/russian-general-idd-ordering-actions-before-downing-of-malaysian-passenger-jet/ar-BBGpmrR?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=U218DHP

[Markje]

New news story on MH-17.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/russian-general-idd-ordering-actions-before-downing-of-malaysian-passenger-jet/ar-BBGpmrR?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=U218DHP

Dutch newspapers (and my eyes nearly popped out when I read it) said Bellingcat was wrong. The man on the tapes is not the general.

Usually its an uphill battle if you try to go against MSM... it was so refreshing to read MSM with my point of view.


Also, its quite easy to hear this yourself. The man on the tapes has a much more nasal voice than the Gen.

Mark.

[Ste]

BUK that downed MH17 belonged to Russian Brigade, Dutch investigators reveal.

Must have been stolen but Ukrainians....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-44235402

[msmoby]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/mh17-missile-ukraine-2014-russia-military-netherlands-deaths-investigation-a8366721.html

"Wilbert Paulissen, head of the Dutch National Police’s crime squad, said the Buk missile was from the 53rd anti-aircraft missile brigade, which is based in the Russian city of Kursk."