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Author Topic: MH17 - update ?  (Read 19970 times)

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Offline Moby

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MH17 - update ?
« on: September 04, 2014, 02:52:29 AM »
Amazing to read the views of posters who support Putin's actions in Ukraine

Hands up who still think the separatists weren't / aren't getting help from Moscow


What I cannot understand is why we haven't had the initial findings re MH17.

It is promised for this week.





Offline Manny

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Re: MH17 - update ?
« Reply #1 on: September 04, 2014, 07:41:42 AM »
The American position.

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Offline MrMann

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Re: MH17 - update ?
« Reply #2 on: September 04, 2014, 07:59:38 AM »
A preliminary report is due to be published on the 9th of September apparently.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/04/mh17-crash-investigation-report-preliminary-findings

http://rt.com/news/184592-mh17-preliminary-report-crash/

It should be noted that it was stressed before the investigation began that it was unlikely that the investigators would be able to identify who brought the plane down but that establishing how the plane was brought down was a possibility.


Online krassavchick

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Re: MH17 - update ?
« Reply #3 on: September 04, 2014, 08:00:04 AM »
The American position.

(Attachment Link)

So the question has to be asked; do you believe that Obama, the royal family and the rest of the world's leaders are reptiles?  :chuckle:

Offline Moby

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Re: MH17 - update ?
« Reply #4 on: September 04, 2014, 08:03:45 AM »
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If you understand Dutch / Russian - you'll now this means 'Forgive us, Netherlands'

Noyaya Gazeta from 25th July - front page



Offline Moby

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Re: MH17 - update ?
« Reply #5 on: September 04, 2014, 08:06:45 AM »
A preliminary report is due to be published on the 9th of September apparently.

Thank you, Mr Mann

Offline Net_Lenka

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Re: MH17 - update ?
« Reply #6 on: September 04, 2014, 08:21:37 AM »
(Attachment Link)

If you understand Dutch / Russian - you'll now this means 'Forgive us, Netherlands'

Noyaya Gazeta from 25th July - front page
If  dudes from Novaya gazeta personally  short that Boeing then they certainly should beg forgiveness As for the whole Russia outside their newspaper office - then we could offer only condolences and accept "sorry" for that lie spreaded in western mass media during hysteria over that tragedy
- А Вы кто такой будете?
-Тьфу на Вас
-А фамилия Ваша как?  -Тьфу на Вас еще раз .. а фамилия моя слишком известная, чтобы я её называл

Offline Moby

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Re: MH17 - update ?
« Reply #7 on: September 04, 2014, 08:30:48 AM »

If  dudes from Novaya gazeta personally  short that Boeing then they certainly should beg forgiveness As for the whole Russia outside their newspaper office - then we could offer only condolences and accept "sorry" for that lie spreaded in western mass media during hysteria over that tragedy


I'm 'sorry'

So were the the first reports from

1/ life news
2/ itar-tass
3/ Vzglyad.ru
4/ belport.by
5/ topwar.ru

and many more


on 17th July spreading lies ?:)))

The separatists did it - admitted it and when they realised they'd f'd up ......

Online AvHdB

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Re: MH17 - update ?
« Reply #8 on: September 06, 2014, 06:31:50 PM »
If  dudes from Novaya gazeta personally  short that Boeing then they certainly should beg forgiveness As for the whole Russia outside their newspaper office - then we could offer only condolences and accept "sorry" for that lie spreaded in western mass media during hysteria over that tragedy

Lena, Please stop spreading the BS ~ there is more than enough already present.

Why not have a good O and than a shot of Scotch. Av
“If you aren't in over your head, how do you know how tall you are?” T.S. Eliot

Online AvHdB

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Re: MH17 - update ?
« Reply #9 on: September 06, 2014, 06:37:07 PM »
If  dudes from Novaya gazeta personally  short that Boeing then they certainly should beg forgiveness As for the whole Russia outside their newspaper office - then we could offer only condolences and accept "sorry" for that lie spreaded in western mass media during hysteria over that tragedy

Lena, Please stop spreading the BS ~ there is more than enough already present.

Why not have a good O and than a shot of Scotch. Av

Lena, Please understand my problem is with a Russian regime that disregards agreements and treaties.

The average Russian is a decent folk, ready for a good laugh and decent meal

As for the leadership there treachery is equal to the West's incompetence. Av
“If you aren't in over your head, how do you know how tall you are?” T.S. Eliot

Online Markje

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Re: MH17 - update ?
« Reply #10 on: September 07, 2014, 02:39:14 AM »
I am still not convinced the seperatists did it, because of the lack of evidence that would support the real truth.

Putin/Lavrov have repeatedly asked for (and never gotten) the following "proof" items.

- Transcripts from both the planes black boxes in the UK.
- The communication from Kiev's tower and the plane.
- High-resolution satelite imaging from the USA.
- Explanation of the bullet holes found in the fuselage of the jet by the first man of ovse on the scene only hours after the accident (Before the seperatists started chainsaw actions).

Since the following would be found out:
- Black boxes:
  A sharp drop in altitude minutes/seconds before the hit by the buk-system. That would be consistent with avoiding jet-machineguns.
  Pilot comments about fearing the planes destruction (officially , pilots did not remark anything out of the order according to the news, i find that hard to believe)

- Communication with Kiev's tower:
  Probably the pilots declaring an emergency as they are under enemy plane fire requesting immediate landing.
 
- Satellite imaging from USA:
  This will prove the same as Russia's high-res images. A plane following the jet.

Etc.

Too many questions left unanswered without them there can be no guilt assigned either way.

I will start assigning blame when these proofs have been put in the news. Not before.

Mark.
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Offline WestCoast

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Re: MH17 - update ?
« Reply #11 on: September 07, 2014, 09:26:09 AM »
I am still not convinced the seperatists did it, because of the lack of evidence that would support the real truth.

Putin/Lavrov have repeatedly asked for (and never gotten) the following "proof" items.

- Transcripts from both the planes black boxes in the UK.
- The communication from Kiev's tower and the plane.
- High-resolution satelite imaging from the USA.
- Explanation of the bullet holes found in the fuselage of the jet by the first man of ovse on the scene only hours after the accident (Before the seperatists started chainsaw actions).

Since the following would be found out:
- Black boxes:
  A sharp drop in altitude minutes/seconds before the hit by the buk-system. That would be consistent with avoiding jet-machineguns.
  Pilot comments about fearing the planes destruction (officially , pilots did not remark anything out of the order according to the news, i find that hard to believe)

- Communication with Kiev's tower:
  Probably the pilots declaring an emergency as they are under enemy plane fire requesting immediate landing.
 
- Satellite imaging from USA:
  This will prove the same as Russia's high-res images. A plane following the jet.

Etc.

Too many questions left unanswered without them there can be no guilt assigned either way.

I will start assigning blame when these proofs have been put in the news. Not before.

Mark.

The investigation is still ongoing. As for satellite images where are the satellite images from Russian satellites over the area? Where is the raw radar data from Russian radar for that area? The radar data from Russia must exist. MH17 was very close to the Russia border so Russia radar, either civilian or military must have been tracking it. What hasn't Russia made the raw data publicly available?
Ipsa scientia potestas est. Knowledge itself is power.   Sir Francis Bacon

Online yankee

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Re: MH17 - update ?
« Reply #12 on: September 07, 2014, 09:28:38 AM »
I am still not convinced the seperatists did it, because of the lack of evidence that would support the real truth.

Putin/Lavrov have repeatedly asked for (and never gotten) the following "proof" items.

- Transcripts from both the planes black boxes in the UK.
- The communication from Kiev's tower and the plane.
- High-resolution satelite imaging from the USA.
- Explanation of the bullet holes found in the fuselage of the jet by the first man of ovse on the scene only hours after the accident (Before the seperatists started chainsaw actions).

Since the following would be found out:
- Black boxes:
  A sharp drop in altitude minutes/seconds before the hit by the buk-system. That would be consistent with avoiding jet-machineguns.
  Pilot comments about fearing the planes destruction (officially , pilots did not remark anything out of the order according to the news, i find that hard to believe)

- Communication with Kiev's tower:
  Probably the pilots declaring an emergency as they are under enemy plane fire requesting immediate landing.
 
- Satellite imaging from USA:
  This will prove the same as Russia's high-res images. A plane following the jet.

Etc.

Too many questions left unanswered without them there can be no guilt assigned either way.

I will start assigning blame when these proofs have been put in the news. Not before.

Mark.

The investigation is still ongoing. As for satellite images where are the satellite images from Russian satellites over the area? Where is the raw radar data from Russian radar for that area? The radar data from Russia must exist. MH17 was very close to the Russia border so Russia radar, either civilian or military must have been tracking it. What hasn't Russia made the raw data publicly available?

Really?  You would still deny their truth,
What is worse than not being able to get what you don't even want?

Online andrewfi

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Re: MH17 - update ?
« Reply #13 on: September 07, 2014, 09:43:50 AM »
As yet, we do not know the truth. However accurate surmises can be made.

The Russians released data that showed the narrative from 'the west' was untrue. That information has not been objectively challenged by anyone with the resources to do so.

Weeks and weeks ago, when this occurred my surmise was that nobody (read the US) challenged Russia because they could not do so. The safe inference to be drawn was that the scenario was as outlined by Russia and that the US knew about it in advance because they would not have maneuvered a satellite with the specific capability to monitor the event without prior knowledge. The US can not own up to that without making themselves complicit in the shoot down - which, of course, they almost certainly were - hence the satellite! :)

My surmise is that the 'preliminary report' will be inconclusive and will, at the request of the investigating stakeholders, be extensively redacted. Again, this will tell us, by inference from what is missing, what we want to know. In addition as citizens of the world we will know we have been lied to and that hundreds of people were murdered simply to enable a tactical change 33,000 feet below and an attempted PR blow against a purported 'enemy'.

"For what else is the life of man but a kind of play in which men in various costumes perform until the director motions them offstage?" -Erasmus

Online Markje

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Re: MH17 - update ?
« Reply #14 on: September 07, 2014, 02:34:56 PM »

The investigation is still ongoing. As for satellite images where are the satellite images from Russian satellites over the area? Where is the raw radar data from Russian radar for that area? The radar data from Russia must exist. MH17 was very close to the Russia border so Russia radar, either civilian or military must have been tracking it. What hasn't Russia made the raw data publicly available?

Russia has put their data online. Do your own homework please.

rt.com had the scoop of course, being Putin's sockpuppet:

http://rt.com/news/174412-malaysia-plane-russia-ukraine/

2 more questions not answered that I didnt mention before:
- Why was the spanish air-traffic-controller silenced from saying what he overheard concerning MH17
- Why did this man later vanish never to be found again?

Mark.
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My first trip to my wife: To Evpatoria!
My road trip to Crimea: Roadtrip to Evpatoria