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Author Topic: Discussion about Media Article Links on the Troubles in Ukraine/Novorossiya Topic  (Read 126643 times)

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Offline WestCoast

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I'm sure you'll agree, in the interests of total transparency the identity of the individual(s) being interviewed and the owners of the media should be revealed as much as possible.   

For example in Manny's example it's obvious that Sergei Lavrov is the Russian foreign minister. He's identified as such in the article. What readers might not realize is that RBTH - Russia Beyond The Headlines - is a Russian government owned and operated media outlet. In Manny's example a Russian government owned and operated media outlet is interviewing a Russian government official.

Even Manny agrees that most if not all government officials, no matter the country, are corrupt and/or incompetent. The same can be said for government owned and operated enterprises. This is why total transparency is necessary.

Without total transparency readers might think they're reading news when in fact all they're reading is government propaganda.
andrewfi says ''Proximity is almost no guarantee of authority" and "in many cases, distance gives a better picture with less emotional and subjective input."

That means I'm a subject matter expert on all things Russia, Ukraine and UK.

Offline Halo

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Links banned at ukraine. Fresh information and maps online (in English).

http://en.voicesevas.ru/

http://cassad.net/?do=warmarker

It can't be considered as government propaganda, people work for free at this resource.

I would hazard a guess those links aren't banned in Ukraine.  Unlike Russia, Ukraine does not have "government friendly" media sources.  Report what you want when you want.
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Offline Rasputin

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It can't be considered as government propaganda, people work for free at this resource.

No, but a non-government owned site can parrot government propaganda and use the same narratives of government propaganda serving as an echo chamber  tiphat
"Seems I live in Russia Rasputin visited" - Millaa
"So do I" - Molly35ru


Offline Net_Lenka

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I would hazard a guess those links aren't banned in Ukraine.  Unlike Russia, Ukraine does not have "government friendly" media sources.  Report what you want when you want.
Ukraine just bans Russian TV channels, kills and kidnaps "alien" journalists and used to post a lot of "facts" said by officials not bothering to provide any proves Otherwise that - "report what you want"

Information portal of Donetsk Republic  http://dnrespublika.info
wish to know what's going on in South West of the Ukraina - let see what people who live exactly THERE think
- А Вы кто такой будете?
-Тьфу на Вас
-А фамилия Ваша как?  -Тьфу на Вас еще раз .. а фамилия моя слишком известная, чтобы я её называл

Offline Millaa

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It can't be considered as government propaganda, people work for free at this resource.

No, but a non-government owned site can parrot government propaganda and use the same narratives of government propaganda serving as an echo chamber  tiphat

Ты можешь повторять эту мантру про пропаганду  до посинения, но факты - вещь упрямая.

Да, убери наконец подпись под своим профайлом, у тебя нет ничего общего с моей Россией.
Скептический ум - страшное оружие с собственным счастьем

Offline Rasputin

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It can't be considered as government propaganda, people work for free at this resource.

No, but a non-government owned site can parrot government propaganda and use the same narratives of government propaganda serving as an echo chamber  tiphat

Ты можешь повторять эту мантру про пропаганду  до посинения, но факты - вещь упрямая.

Да, убери наконец подпись под своим профайлом, у тебя нет ничего общего с моей Россией.

Propaganda need not be solely voiced by the state. Quite often, the state can influence what is said. This can be done by threatening (directly or indirectly) news sources, intimidating them, to toe the "party line" and report as the government wants them to report. Thus, even if the agency reporting the news is not directly state-owned, it can still be furthering the aims of the state by broadcasting state propaganda...
"Seems I live in Russia Rasputin visited" - Millaa
"So do I" - Molly35ru

Offline Halo

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I would hazard a guess those links aren't banned in Ukraine.  Unlike Russia, Ukraine does not have "government friendly" media sources.  Report what you want when you want.
Ukraine just bans Russian TV channels, kills and kidnaps "alien" journalists and used to post a lot of "facts" said by officials not bothering to provide any proves Otherwise that - "report what you want"

Information portal of Donetsk Republic  http://dnrespublika.info
wish to know what's going on in South West of the Ukraina - let see what people who live exactly THERE think

One can watch Russian television in Kiev.  Even now.  One can read Russian newspapers online.  No media in Ukraine is, by necessity, "government friendly", as is the case with Russia, although TV5 is owned by Poroshenko (and was, long before he became president), and I will not deny that different media sources have different sympathies.

The Ukrainian government announced it would stop some propaganda emanating from Russia.  As Russian reports routinely declare ATO will kill all residents of the Donbass, during a period of war, where the enemy uses blatantly false propaganda, I don't find this startling or unacceptable.  Furthermore, nobody needs the garbage appearing on Russian so called "news" such as that ATO crucifies Ukrainian toddlers or that the PM is part of a Satanic cult bent on destroying Orthodoxy.  What is even more galling is that these reports are crafted, and reported, by the progeny of the former Soviet nomenklatura, the very Bolshevik scum that sent priests to gulags, ensured anyone down to a church washerwoman was approved by the KGB, and ensured the Church served the state, not the people.  Now these "defenders of Orthodoxy" are using the church for their own nefarious purposes.  :sick0012: :sick0012: :sick0012:

Here is a report of refugees living among the "fascist Banderivtsi" -

After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Offline Millaa

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Короче, Ленка, нехай они тут исключительно censor.net хавают. Сказки на ночь - полезная вещь, главное, совесть спит спокойно.
Скептический ум - страшное оружие с собственным счастьем

Offline Halo

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I do read censor.net, though with a jaundiced eye.  But it is hardly the only source I read, and its reports, even if presented with a pro ATO bent, have proven accurate more often than not.  It has made one false report, and apologized for it when it was discovered.  I even read Russian sites.  It is only by reading broadly will one discern the truth.  I realize that this is a foreign concept for all you brainwashed former commies.
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Offline Manny

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Even Manny agrees............

Doesnt matter what I agree with or not.

I'd prefer you didn't keep broadcasting what you imagine to be my opinion though. You habitually distort what you read and then repeat it in a form beyond recognition.
Read a trip report from North Korea >>here<< - Read a trip report from South Korea, China and Hong Kong >>here<<

Look what the American media makes some people believe:
Putin often threatens to strike US with nuclear weapons.

Offline MrMann

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Where did my post go?

Offline WestCoast

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Even Manny agrees............

Doesnt matter what I agree with or not.

I'd prefer you didn't keep broadcasting what you imagine to be my opinion though. You habitually distort what you read and then repeat it in a form beyond recognition.

You present Russian government opinion as fact and use it so often it appears you are being paid by the Russian government to spread their propaganda. All in all I'm by far the lesser of two evils.
andrewfi says ''Proximity is almost no guarantee of authority" and "in many cases, distance gives a better picture with less emotional and subjective input."

That means I'm a subject matter expert on all things Russia, Ukraine and UK.

Offline Ste

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Where did my post go?

And mine! Seems we have mods from RT....
O pointy birds, o pointy pointy, Anoint my head, anointy-nointy.

Offline Manny

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Read a trip report from North Korea >>here<< - Read a trip report from South Korea, China and Hong Kong >>here<<

Look what the American media makes some people believe:
Putin often threatens to strike US with nuclear weapons.

Offline Halo

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Links banned at ukraine. Fresh information and maps online (in English).

http://en.voicesevas.ru/

http://cassad.net/?do=warmarker

It can't be considered as government propaganda, people work for free at this resource.

I asked my nephew to try your links.  He could access them, notwithstanding the fact he lives in the fascist capital.
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Offline Boris

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Where did my post go?

And mine! Seems we have mods from RT....

It seems one man's news is another man's propaganda.... :laugh:

Offline Larry

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Links banned at ukraine. Fresh information and maps online (in English).

http://en.voicesevas.ru/

http://cassad.net/?do=warmarker

It can't be considered as government propaganda, people work for free at this resource.

I asked my nephew to try your links.  He could access them, notwithstanding the fact he lives in the fascist capital.

And after all the millions the US government has sent to Kiev.  They've had more than six months!  Lazy Banderivtsi.

Offline Millaa

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Links banned at ukraine. Fresh information and maps online (in English).

http://en.voicesevas.ru/

http://cassad.net/?do=warmarker

It can't be considered as government propaganda, people work for free at this resource.

I asked my nephew to try your links.  He could access them, notwithstanding the fact he lives in the fascist capital.

Это дело времени, поклонница censor.net  ;D http://cassad.net/analytics/325-spisok-nehoroshih-resursov.html Пусть еще русско-язычную версию проверит, прорвем информационную блокаду в фашистской столице  ;D
Скептический ум - страшное оружие с собственным счастьем

Offline Halo

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http://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php?topic=21492.msg377540#msg377540

Also in the Hitchens piece -
Quote
(T)hey think that because the Russian government is bad (beyond dispute)  . . . 
 
Russia meanwhile tells its own lies, not of exaggeration but of what might politely be called understatement.  Russia maintains, quite incredibly, that none of its soldiers are in Ukraine and that it is not arming the rebels.  Of course Russian soldiers are in Ukraine, and of course Russia is helping with supplies and training. To the extent that all its operations are technically deniable, this may well be true. But it is obvious that the GRU is giving powerful aid to the rebels. Quite rightly, the western media recover their proper scepticism when confronted by these claims, and sneer at them.
 

In other news today, the Italian newspaper La Repubblica, has reported that Putin told Barroso he if he wants, he can "take Kiev in two weeks".  Now that's the type of "diplomacy" I am certain Hitchens could get behind.


 
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Offline Boris

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Ukrainian police shoot unarmed member of the public.


Forward to 3:30.

It looks like initially they were shooting in the air then one guy decides to shoot at the ground in front of them. Forgot about the ricochet effect...

Offline Ste

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Articles like this don't help creating Russian support....

http://www.americanthinker.com/2014/08/how_to_solve_the_putin_problem.html

No wonder Putin's popularity is increasing, even within the younger citizens.

Probably true almost the chivvy elements, just like here when in 1982 when everyone was loving us sinking a ship and drowning 300 men. Gotcha!!
O pointy birds, o pointy pointy, Anoint my head, anointy-nointy.

Offline ashbyclarke

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Articles like this don't help creating Russian support....

http://www.americanthinker.com/2014/08/how_to_solve_the_putin_problem.html

No wonder Putin's popularity is increasing, even within the younger citizens.

Probably true almost the chivvy elements, just like here when in 1982 when everyone was loving us sinking a ship and drowning 300 men. Gotcha!!

Created the sun as we now know it! Aussie paper selling copies, worked. If we hadn't of been at war and Maggie was attempting a peace process then I'm sure the headlines might have read somewhat different, maybe "We can work it out and get it straight, or say good night"? No doubt they'll be famous words one day.

Can't see the 2 worlds leading military powers getting closer with publications like this, patriotic nations fighting it out!
I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're gonna feel all day - Frank Sinatra

Offline cufflinks

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Articles like this don't help creating Russian support....

http://www.americanthinker.com/2014/08/how_to_solve_the_putin_problem.html

No wonder Putin's popularity is increasing, even within the younger citizens.

That is the bloody point lost on all the prattling EU & UK Putin pacifists - trying to create Russian "support" is akin to welcoming both a Russian Polar Bear and Kamchatka Brown (Giant fast Grizzly) Bear into your bedroom - sooner or later you are going to have a very very bad day - or night as the case may be.

Offline WestCoast

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Articles like this don't help creating Russian support....

http://www.americanthinker.com/2014/08/how_to_solve_the_putin_problem.html

No wonder Putin's popularity is increasing, even within the younger citizens.

Isn't Putin doing exactly what you're accusing the Americans of doing? Putin has already said "Russia's partners...should understand it's best not to mess with us...", Putin then said "I want to remind you that Russia is one of the leading nuclear powers." That certainly is cowboy diplomacy at its best.

There's little doubt Putin wants Ukraine to stay in Russia's sphere of influence. The only real debate is can he take and keep all of Ukraine or will he have to settle for only that part of Ukraine east of the Dnieper? 
andrewfi says ''Proximity is almost no guarantee of authority" and "in many cases, distance gives a better picture with less emotional and subjective input."

That means I'm a subject matter expert on all things Russia, Ukraine and UK.

Offline cufflinks

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Articles like this don't help creating Russian support....

http://www.americanthinker.com/2014/08/how_to_solve_the_putin_problem.html

No wonder Putin's popularity is increasing, even within the younger citizens.

Isn't Putin doing exactly what you're accusing the Americans of doing? Putin has already said "Russia's partners...should understand it's best not to mess with us...", Putin then said "I want to remind you that Russia is one of the leading nuclear powers." That certainly is cowboy diplomacy at its best.

There's little doubt Putin wants Ukraine to stay in Russia's sphere of influence. The only real debate is can he take and keep all of Ukraine or will he have to settle for only that part of Ukraine east of the Dnieper?

Perhaps let the East Ukies vote on it like in Crimea...


 

 

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