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Author Topic: Westcoast: Nobody immigrates to the FSU from the west.  (Read 12656 times)

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Offline WestCoast

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Westcoast: Nobody immigrates to the FSU from the west.
« on: August 03, 2014, 09:42:00 AM »
The great thing about living in the western world is the ability to move. If you prefer the lifestyle of eastern Europe move there, problem solved.

Nobody immigrates to the FSU from the west.
Ipsa scientia potestas est. Knowledge itself is power.   Sir Francis Bacon

Offline Manny

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Re: Westcoast: Nobody immigrates to the FSU from the west.
« Reply #1 on: August 03, 2014, 01:56:17 PM »
Nobody immigrates to the FSU from the west.

That isnt quite true is it?

DBNeeley was an American who ended his days living in Ukraine.

Danchik is an American who lives in Russia.

Andrewfi is a Brit who lives in Estonia.

I know several Brits, Finns and others who live in Estonia too. A pal of mine upped sticks and is now doing very well in Bulgaria.

And thats only a few off the top of my head from here. Head on over to Redtape and there is a 600k post forum heaving with westerners who live in Moscow.

Also, several from here maintain second homes there (not wife's old apartment - places they bought or built since). Some plan to retire or semi-retire there.

As I have said before: Less Googling, more travelling.  :plane:

Offline Halo

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Re: Westcoast: Nobody immigrates to the FSU from the west.
« Reply #2 on: August 03, 2014, 02:22:58 PM »
David Neeley, God rest his soul, once posted that if he had a larger retirement income, he would not be living in Ukraine.  He also stated his wife would have to retrain, but that seemed to be a secondary consideration to the financial one.


Offline Manny

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Re: Westcoast: Nobody immigrates to the FSU from the west.
« Reply #3 on: August 03, 2014, 02:26:57 PM »
David Neeley, God rest his soul, once posted that if he had a larger retirement income, he would not be living in Ukraine.  He also stated his wife would have to retrain, but that seemed to be a secondary consideration to the financial one.

He may not have been a success story in the way we might have hoped, but to counter Westy's patently untrue statement that "nobody immigrates to the FSU from the west" he was a suitable example; being one of many who did.

There was also that myheart2ukraine clown that was an ex British soldier who went to live in Rivne. There are many who *choose* to live in the FSU was my point. I recall another British chap here (I forget his handle) who posts now and again, who was on a farm in Poland with his wife, but they since moved to Moscow. CC3 I read is also now living in Ukraine with his woman.

Point being, Westy was demonstrably wrong.

Offline Halo

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Re: Westcoast: Nobody immigrates to the FSU from the west.
« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2014, 02:31:04 PM »
Westy's statement of "all or nothing" was inaccurate.  However, the vast majority do not choose to live in the FSU.

Offline WestCoast

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Re: Westcoast: Nobody immigrates to the FSU from the west.
« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2014, 02:37:17 PM »
Much as they may have liked some aspects of the FSU nobody immigrates to the FSU from the west.

That isnt quite true is it?

DBNeeley was an American who ended his days living in Ukraine.

Danchik is an American who lives in Russia.

Andrewfi is a Brit who lives in Estonia.

I know several Brits, Finns and others who live in Estonia too. A pal of mine upped sticks and is now doing very well in Bulgaria.

And thats only a few off the top of my head from here. Head on over to Redtape and there is a 600k post forum heaving with westerners who live in Moscow.

Also, several from here maintain second homes there (not wife's old apartment - places they bought or built since). Some plan to retire or semi-retire there.

As I have said before: Less Googling, more travelling.  :plane:


In absolute terms perhaps not correct but certainly in well over 95% of the cases I've seen on RUA and elsewhere, that seems to be the case. If you have examples I'd love to see them. The examples you give are mostly flawed.

For example, Andrew isn't immigrating to Estonia. He isn't fluent in Estonian or Russian after how many years, 10+? What do Brits say about foreigners who come to the UK to work but don't learn English? You certainly don't consider them citizens, especially when they have no intention of learning the local lingo and becoming proper legal citizens.

Same with Danchik. He's in Russia because he found a place where he can be gainfully employed. Will he stay there forever? Doubtful, western expats tend to return home eventually.

DBNeeley may be the exception that proves the rule. My understanding of his situation was that it was far easier for him to move to Ukraine to live and work than it was for his wife to move to the US and live and work.

Ipsa scientia potestas est. Knowledge itself is power.   Sir Francis Bacon

Offline Rasputin

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Re: Westcoast: Nobody immigrates to the FSU from the west.
« Reply #6 on: August 03, 2014, 04:04:13 PM »
Some stayed for years and left: Richard and Scott are two that come to mind.
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"So do I" - Molly35ru

Offline Manny

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Re: Westcoast: Nobody immigrates to the FSU from the west.
« Reply #7 on: August 03, 2014, 04:42:36 PM »
Much as they may have liked some aspects of the FSU nobody immigrates to the FSU from the west.

That isnt quite true is it?

DBNeeley was an American who ended his days living in Ukraine.

Danchik is an American who lives in Russia.

Andrewfi is a Brit who lives in Estonia.

I know several Brits, Finns and others who live in Estonia too. A pal of mine upped sticks and is now doing very well in Bulgaria.

And thats only a few off the top of my head from here. Head on over to Redtape and there is a 600k post forum heaving with westerners who live in Moscow.

Also, several from here maintain second homes there (not wife's old apartment - places they bought or built since). Some plan to retire or semi-retire there.

As I have said before: Less Googling, more travelling.  :plane:


In absolute terms perhaps not correct but certainly in well over 95% of the cases I've seen on RUA and elsewhere, that seems to be the case. If you have examples I'd love to see them. The examples you give are mostly flawed.

For example, Andrew isn't immigrating to Estonia. He isn't fluent in Estonian or Russian after how many years, 10+? What do Brits say about foreigners who come to the UK to work but don't learn English? You certainly don't consider them citizens, especially when they have no intention of learning the local lingo and becoming proper legal citizens.

Same with Danchik. He's in Russia because he found a place where he can be gainfully employed. Will he stay there forever? Doubtful, western expats tend to return home eventually.

DBNeeley may be the exception that proves the rule. My understanding of his situation was that it was far easier for him to move to Ukraine to live and work than it was for his wife to move to the US and live and work.

You said: "Nobody immigrates to the FSU from the west." - I showed you they do.

Do you admit your statement was wrong?

Yes or no is all I need.

Offline Rasputin

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Re: Westcoast: Nobody immigrates to the FSU from the west.
« Reply #8 on: August 03, 2014, 04:54:52 PM »
Depends what is meant by immigrate. If one means moving to another country to become a citizen of that country, most of the people mentioned would certainly not qualify. Maybe Mendy could become a Russian citizen as he could pass the language exam...
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Offline WestCoast

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Re: Westcoast: Nobody immigrates to the FSU from the west.
« Reply #9 on: August 03, 2014, 05:11:21 PM »
Much as they may have liked some aspects of the FSU nobody immigrates to the FSU from the west.

That isnt quite true is it?

DBNeeley was an American who ended his days living in Ukraine.

Danchik is an American who lives in Russia.

Andrewfi is a Brit who lives in Estonia.

I know several Brits, Finns and others who live in Estonia too. A pal of mine upped sticks and is now doing very well in Bulgaria.

And thats only a few off the top of my head from here. Head on over to Redtape and there is a 600k post forum heaving with westerners who live in Moscow.

Also, several from here maintain second homes there (not wife's old apartment - places they bought or built since). Some plan to retire or semi-retire there.

As I have said before: Less Googling, more travelling.  :plane:


In absolute terms perhaps not correct but certainly in well over 95% of the cases I've seen on RUA and elsewhere, that seems to be the case. If you have examples I'd love to see them. The examples you give are mostly flawed.

For example, Andrew isn't immigrating to Estonia. He isn't fluent in Estonian or Russian after how many years, 10+? What do Brits say about foreigners who come to the UK to work but don't learn English? You certainly don't consider them citizens, especially when they have no intention of learning the local lingo and becoming proper legal citizens.

Same with Danchik. He's in Russia because he found a place where he can be gainfully employed. Will he stay there forever? Doubtful, western expats tend to return home eventually.

DBNeeley may be the exception that proves the rule. My understanding of his situation was that it was far easier for him to move to Ukraine to live and work than it was for his wife to move to the US and live and work.

You said: "Nobody immigrates to the FSU from the west." - I showed you they do.

Do you admit your statement was wrong?

Yes or no is all I need.

No. When you can show me that Andrew is taking out citizenship then I'll believe. And Andrew is in Estonia which may be the FSU but is currently the EU and receiving some serious capital from the EU to bring it up to EU standards. It's got to be far more pleasant to live in Estonia than in Russia or the 'stans, etc.

Manny you have said you wouldn't move to Russia. Really that's all that someone needs to know. The guy who wrote the book on marrying FSUW wouldn't immigrate to Russia.
Ipsa scientia potestas est. Knowledge itself is power.   Sir Francis Bacon

Offline Manny

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Re: Westcoast: Nobody immigrates to the FSU from the west.
« Reply #10 on: August 04, 2014, 03:59:16 AM »
No. When you can show me that Andrew is taking out citizenship then I'll believe. And Andrew is in Estonia which may be the FSU but is currently the EU and receiving some serious capital from the EU to bring it up to EU standards. It's got to be far more pleasant to live in Estonia than in Russia or the 'stans, etc.

Manny you have said you wouldn't move to Russia. Really that's all that someone needs to know. The guy who wrote the book on marrying FSUW wouldn't immigrate to Russia.

I think the reader can draw his own conclusion from that.  tiphat

Online NS1

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Re: Westcoast: Nobody immigrates to the FSU from the west.
« Reply #11 on: August 04, 2014, 08:44:08 AM »
No. When you can show me that Andrew is taking out citizenship then I'll believe. And Andrew is in Estonia which may be the FSU but is currently the EU and receiving some serious capital from the EU to bring it up to EU standards. It's got to be far more pleasant to live in Estonia than in Russia or the 'stans, etc.

Manny you have said you wouldn't move to Russia. Really that's all that someone needs to know. The guy who wrote the book on marrying FSUW wouldn't immigrate to Russia.

I think the reader can draw his own conclusion from that.  tiphat

I think few if any every truly immigrate, some move and live there, but never give up their passport and ability
to come home.
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Offline Manny

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Re: Westcoast: Nobody immigrates to the FSU from the west.
« Reply #12 on: August 04, 2014, 11:42:29 AM »
Why must people give up their passport? There is simply no need. I know some Americans do as they are taxed on their worldwide income as a US citizen by the IRS, and renouncing nationality is the only way to escape that. But for everyone else from the west, a western passport is more useful for international travel than one from Russia or Ukraine. The two subjects are quite different.

How long must one live in a place to be considered a true immigrant? Andrew has been in Estonia about a decade. Dan has been in Moscow a long time as well.

Westy just wails when demonstrated to be wrong and wont admit it. He then uses others comments to try to reframe his original meaning to try to make him look less wrong. It is a silly and transparent tactic. Better to say "Ya got me there - I was wrong".  Bickering with him is a fools errand.

Offline WestCoast

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Re: Westcoast: Nobody immigrates to the FSU from the west.
« Reply #13 on: August 04, 2014, 12:22:08 PM »
Why must people give up their passport? There is simply no need. I know some Americans do as they are taxed on their worldwide income as a US citizen by the IRS, and renouncing nationality is the only way to escape that. But for everyone else from the west, a western passport is more useful for international travel than one from Russia or Ukraine. The two subjects are quite different.

How long must one live in a place to be considered a true immigrant? Andrew has been in Estonia about a decade. Dan has been in Moscow a long time as well.

Westy just wails when demonstrated to be wrong and wont admit it. He then uses others comments to try to reframe his original meaning to try to make him look less wrong. It is a silly and transparent tactic. Better to say "Ya got me there - I was wrong".  Bickering with him is a fools errand.

Manny if you can't converse in the local language you're not immigrating to that country. You're not integrating into that society. As I mentioned before Brits don't take kindly to those who arrive in Britain to work but don't learn the language or take out citizenship. Same in Canada and the US.

If you've been in a country 10+ years and can't speak the language to a near fluent level you're not immigrating. You're there to work for some years and return home at a later date.

Ipsa scientia potestas est. Knowledge itself is power.   Sir Francis Bacon

Offline Mikeav8r

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Re: Westcoast: Nobody immigrates to the FSU from the west.
« Reply #14 on: August 04, 2014, 12:48:45 PM »
Why must people give up their passport? There is simply no need. I know some Americans do as they are taxed on their worldwide income as a US citizen by the IRS, and renouncing nationality is the only way to escape that. But for everyone else from the west, a western passport is more useful for international travel than one from Russia or Ukraine. The two subjects are quite different.

How long must one live in a place to be considered a true immigrant? Andrew has been in Estonia about a decade. Dan has been in Moscow a long time as well.

Westy just wails when demonstrated to be wrong and wont admit it. He then uses others comments to try to reframe his original meaning to try to make him look less wrong. It is a silly and transparent tactic. Better to say "Ya got me there - I was wrong".  Bickering with him if a fools errand.

Manny if you can't converse in the local language you're not immigrating to that country. You're not integrating into that society. As I mentioned before Brits don't take kindly to those who arrive in Britain to work but don't learn the language or take out citizenship. Same in Canada and the US.

If you've been in a country 10+ years and can't speak the language to a near fluent level you're not immigrating. You're there to work for some years and return home at a later date.

My fiance' cannot converse in English so why the hell am I having to fill out all this "Immigration" paperwork then?

What are her alternatives?  Please let me know so I can make other (preferably easier) arrangements for her immigration moving here.  Thanks in advance :)  tiphat

Her intention is to move here from her current country and stay.  She will continue to learn the language and integrate into society as any new immigrant resident citizen would...damn..what the heck do I call her?

I think your definition by the language spoken needs to be re-visited Westy.  You ever hear of a place called "Little Italy" or "Chinatown"?  Most of the "immigrants" that came from those two countries over the past century+ didn't speak a word of English.

While I agree many people that move to the FSU do so on a temporary basis and end up returning home at some point, some do make it a point to stay.  I personally think immigration from here (anywhere in the west) is looked at in a different light than those coming here.  A play on words if you will.  To me, immigration is to make a permanent move with no intention of returning and as mentioned above, it is not necessary to give up ones passport.

By the way, there are thousands of elderly immigrants living here for the past 30+ years that barely speak 20 words of English.  What shall we call them?  There is no requirement to become a citizen here but I bet they live out the rest of their lives in the US.
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