General Discussion > General Chat
The 9/11 Discussion.
BillyB:
Maxx, you don't have to hold back, tell me what is wrong instead of my argument is weak with a million examples. I know why USA gives economic aid. It's for our benefit. If you give a dog a bone, he will like you and maybe do as you say. It's cheaper to give Russia economic aid than get into an arms race with them or give them ambition to become the USSR again. It' cheaper to give aid to countries with totalitarian governments so they won't go to war with a neighboring country to feed their needs. But the bottom line is THEY NEED ECONOMIC AID, WE DO NOT! Some of you guys sound as if you are on the edge of being homeless and hungry. What do you think the people of Africa will think after they read that?
Maxx, one thing I learned is that I shouldn't be on the extreme left or right. Those type of people usually go off all the time and complain and complain and complain and they are certainly a burden to whoever is in their life. They may find it's difficult for them to keep a relationship and they fail to understand that the problem isn't the nation, it isn't the President, it is THEMSELF. I look at the people who bash Bush or Clinton relentlessly, mention everything wrong with them and fail to acknowledge and understand what is right with those Presidents and those people believe whatever the media says. Thank God they aren't in power. How can anyone live with a person who is always talking about conspiracy theories, corporate elite running the World, USA sucks, and the US President is no better than terrorists? Isn't there any sunshine in their life? Can't they see the difference in governments and the people running the governments? Can they be grateful for living in a prosporous nation that is clearly more free than others? The day you see a 100% truly free nation is the day you see anarchy.
Maxx:
Billy, you want to believe the government is acting in our best good. They are not. Pointing out why they are endangering our economic future with inflationary spending is not being unpatriotic. I would say just the opposite.
Your mentioning those that believe in conspiracy theory make bad husbands is absurd and I take it as a cheap shot.
You mix in conspiracy theory/corporate elite with America sucks/US Presidents are terrorists. Who say the later? Here is one conspiracy theorist.
"The real truth of the matter is that a financial element in the large centers has owned the government since the days of Andrew Jackson"
Franklin D. Roosevelt
U.S. President
1933
Believing in conspiracy theory does not make one a kook as the establishment media tries to imply.
Bashing Clintons or Bushs does not mean one chooses one side over the other OR is willing to take the middle position between these two groups. I take the meaning of what Roosevelt said above about whose behind these two groups and take my position to condemn the lot of them.
Are we Americans really more free that every other nation? I will say that we Americans and the Brits too are more likely to challenge our oppressors when we are pushed too far. That is why our propaganda is so sophisticated to fool a smart person like you. You know about how stacked the deck is about the VAWA laws. Why can't you see that about banking, corporatism and politics?
Economic aid to totalitarian countries winds up into the Swiss bank accounts of these nations leaders. The money is used to buy off these leaders so that they continue to plunder their people and natural resources for the multi-national corporate interests. It's not about being humanitarian.
Maxx
PlumberMan:
Maxx,
You bring up a interesting point about freedom. Freedom, I believe is a interpretation. For instance; who has more freedom, a single man living in Communist China or a married man living in America?
Maxx:
The freedom we are talking about here is about how much coercion the state exercises over it's citizens with it's laws and regulations that restrict the free will of people who are not hurting others. And with it how efficent our enforcement is of those laws. If we as an advanced technological nation allow national ID cards or drivers licenses with RFID chips then I will say America will be on the forefront of becoming the most unfree country in the world.
"The U.S. State Department soon will begin issuing passports with radio frequency identification, or RFID, chips embedded in them, and Virginia may become the first state to glue RFID tags into all its driver's licenses"
"the Real ID Act, gives unfettered authority to the Department of Homeland Security to design state ID cards and driver's licenses. Among the possibilities: biometric information such as retinal scans, fingerprints, DNA data and RFID tracking technology."
“The high-tech passports are supposed to deter theft and forgeries, as well as accelerate immigration checks at airports and borders. They'll contain within their covers a miniscule microchip that stores basic data, including the passport holder's name, date of birth and place of birth. The chip, which can transmit information through a tiny included antenna, also has enough room to store biometric data such as digitized fingerprints, photographs and iris scans.”
"In reality, this bill is a Trojan horse," said Paul, the Republican congressman. "It pretends to offer desperately needed border control in order to stampede Americans into sacrificing what is uniquely American: our constitutionally protected liberty."
http://www.news.com/National-ID-cards-on-the-way/2100-1028_3-5573414.html
George Orwell never had this much imagination.
BillyB might say I am unpatriotic for telling you about this. I think the opposite and believe all patriotic Americans should get their heads out of the sand and see where we are being lead.
Maxx
BillyB:
--- Quote from: Maxx on December 05, 2007, 09:54:55 PM ---. You know about how stacked the deck is about the VAWA laws. Why can't you see that about banking, corporatism and politics?
--- End quote ---
Maxx, I think VAWA is not fair but unlike you, I want banks, corporations and politics to be successful. Right now, the US Prez is the most powerful person in politics in the World. Someday it may be somebody else and you may have something to really fear if it's a tyrant. Some people complain of the loss of jobs in the US but also complain Corporations are too successful and powerful. The very businesses that give you a job and build the products you adore is the bad guy? If banks don't have money to loan money, they go out of business and individual people won't be able to get a loan to start up businesses for their dreams. Although a company you did business with took their business overseas, if a large corporation wanted to sign a contract with you, I doubt you'd turn them down.
Maxx, if you got a better way to run a country than the way it's done in the USA, state it now or patent it and sell it to some country in the dump to see if it's going to work. Complaining about the current situation isn't doing anything for me to change my views. So many years of hearing things like Social Security is going to go bankrupt when the baby boomer's retire ain't going to happen. One thing I did learn is life here is actually better than all the gloom and doom talk. Most people happy with their lives live a happy and quiet life and building the American dream. And the silent is the majority. They spend time with their kids and family instead of on the street in front of cameras protesting and throwing themselves in front of cars, setting the American flag on fire and waking up everymorning feeling dirty and ashamed because they were born an American.
I don't want the government to keep track of every citizen all the time but I wouldn't mind known criminals being tracked all the time. Homeland security is not just something the goverment thought up, it's what the people demanded after 9/11. Ben Franklin said "Those who desire to give up freedom in order to gain security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one.” and I say "those who desire to give up security in order to gain freedom will not have, nor do they deserve, either one". Maxx, there needs to be a balance because there's always somebody or some nation in this World ready and willing to take your nation's place on top and own you. Maxx, you may feel owned by the US government, try __________(insert any foreign government here).
One nice thing about America is that people are free to move to a new location where the grass is greener, even if it's out of the country. As of now, there are more people coming than going. There would be even more coming if we didn't restrict the flow. There are more restrictions to come here than in Europe. There is a good reason for the fact people want to come here and it's not all based on a fantasy they seen in a Hollywood movie. Think about the overall picture. Be thankful you were born here with a choice to leave at your own free will. Most people don't have a choice.
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