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Author Topic: Homelessness in Russia?  (Read 10574 times)

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Offline Maxx

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Homelessness in Russia?
« on: July 15, 2014, 10:58:51 AM »

Homelessness in Russia. I have an understanding that most everyone in Russia and Ukraine is assigned a home that they own 100%. A provision from the old Soviet Union days. I understand there are renters but as a percentage how many? In America about one third of "homeowners" own their home without debt. The other 2 thirds pay a mortgage (loan) to a bank and usually for 30 years. Are there mortgages there? If so what is the usual conditions of this loan?

Also in regard to property taxes. Here in America as a general rule about 1% of the value of the home is to be paid to the government in taxes. The average price of a house with it's land in America is about $250,000. Of course some places are far higher (Manhattan) and far lower (rural Mississippi). So if an average priced home of say 250K the yearly taxes would be about $2,500. What could you expect in Russia and Ukraine?

Also if you can not come up with the taxes how long will it take before the government throws you out into the street? Where do the homeless people sleep anyways?

While I am asking questions. Is turkey available there? And to those Russian and Ukrainian women who have tasted turkey do you like it?




Offline AKA Luke

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Re: Homelessness in Russia?
« Reply #1 on: July 15, 2014, 11:15:30 AM »
Can't give you numbers but I know plenty of young people do rent.

When I visited Saint P there were lots of newly built apartment blocks on the outskirts up for sale, I mean who'd want to buy an apartment in a crumbling Soviet block?

I wouldn't.
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Offline yankee

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Re: Homelessness in Russia?
« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2014, 11:23:20 AM »
My wife is retired therefore she does not have to pay property taxes on the property she owns.
What is worse than not being able to get what you don't even want?


Offline Maxx

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Re: Homelessness in Russia?
« Reply #3 on: July 15, 2014, 11:48:20 AM »

Thank you Luke and Yankee. All these details give me something to think about.

Offline Maxx

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Re: Homelessness in Russia?
« Reply #4 on: July 15, 2014, 11:59:21 AM »
My wife is retired therefore she does not have to pay property taxes on the property she owns.

The government here are not so generous to it's older citizens. You hear of 90 year old widows being evicted in the winter by the banks and government. I am trying to figure if the American and Western systems are more or less kind to those struggling to survive? My mother got a $19 a month increase on her Social Security and because of her increase the landlord and the government care program she uses bumped their rent/fee a total of $21.

Offline sashathecat

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Re: Homelessness in Russia?
« Reply #5 on: July 15, 2014, 02:13:03 PM »
This is the little I know on the subject and is for Ukraine only. Someone feel free to jump in and correct me.

The days of government issued housing are over as far as I know. Many people will still have their government issued apartments so will save on that cost. Some people like my MIL will own a home that was built slowly over time with their own funds. Babushka actually started building the home around WWII and they just add a room or new windows or what have you a little at a time as money is saved up. Many young people rent these days. Be it an apartment, or a room in a house.

People are financing new apartments but at shorter lengths of time and higher interest rates from what I understand. Many are bought cash with loans from relatives and friends which are relied on instead of the banks. They then repay these people back slowly.

There are many homeless orphans in both Ukraine and Russia. The numbers are staggering. I think there are 5k in Odessa alone. They live in the sewers and under the buildings next to the furnace pipes during the winter.

Do not think turkey is very available in Ukraine but wife loves it here.


Offline Manny

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Re: Homelessness in Russia?
« Reply #6 on: July 15, 2014, 02:28:09 PM »
So if an average priced home of say 250K

$188k it says here.

Its cheap over the pond! Average house prices here are $295k

Also if you can not come up with the taxes how long will it take before the government throws you out into the street?

Do I read that right? Your government can evict you from your own home for not paying property taxes?

The days of government issued housing are over as far as I know. Many people will still have their government issued apartments so will save on that cost.

Same in Russia. Normal free market economy there now. Mortgages are available, uptake is increasing, but many still pay cash.

In answer to Luke, as for renters, yes many people rent. Many rent off the flats they got in Soviet times to younger people and use the income to supplement their living in a better place. Plenty of buying and selling going on, and many Rachman style Landlords.

The old style Soviet apartments are still very saleable. Where else could a young couple live for twenty or thirty grand? Or £150 a month? One starts in the crumble-down Soviet apartment and after making some cash, moves out and becomes a Russian Yuppie in a new build with an Audi Quattro. :chuckle:

Look at any British 60's tower block. It isnt much different. Many people who started life in those now live in a Barratt/Wimpey house in a suburb and enjoy a quality of life their parents could only have dreamt of at their age. 

Look at the transition in British society between the late 60's/mid 70's and the late 80's/early 90's, and that will give you a good idea of where Russia is today: 1991. But it happened there in a decade. These economies leapfrog (an economist can probably explain why). They miss out many of the middle bits in their accelerated growth.

What this means is they miss some steps. In consumerist terms, they jump from a Motorola 8500x to an iphone (figuratively). A huge leap. They jump from a Lada to an Audi. They jump from a shared bathroom in a Kommunalka to a sauna and a wet room in their own house. I know guys who couldn't buy a packet of cigarettes in 1998 who now have a new Mercedes (on a loan) and a new house in the suburbs (on a mortgage).
Read a trip report from North Korea >>here<< - Read a trip report from South Korea, China and Hong Kong >>here<<

Look what the American media makes some people believe:
Putin often threatens to strike US with nuclear weapons.

Offline sashathecat

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Re: Homelessness in Russia?
« Reply #7 on: July 15, 2014, 02:50:20 PM »
Where do the homeless people sleep anyways?

Here is a link to a photographer who documents the homeless children living in Ukraine.

http://davidgillanders.photoshelter.com/gallery/street-children-of-ukraine/G0000unRJjlJjGrQ/

Adults will sleep under bridges or in parks. The life expectancy of a homeless person is the FSU is much lower than in a warm and sunny place here in the US I would imagine.

Offline sashathecat

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Re: Homelessness in Russia?
« Reply #8 on: July 15, 2014, 03:00:04 PM »
Same in Russia. Normal free market economy there now. Mortgages are available, uptake is increasing, but many still pay cash.

As for renters, yes many people rent. Many rent off the flats they got in Soviet times to younger people and use the income to supplement their living in a better place.

In answer to Luke, the old style Soviet apartments are still very saleable. Where else could a young couple live for twenty or thirty grand?

Yes, was not sure if it was the same in Russia but sounds like it is. Financing and the real estate market are catching up to the West. Some of the older buildings are actually desirable due to the downtown location. People will buy them up and remodel to live in or rent which is a huge industry in Odessa at least with all the tourism. We know people who rent out the old Soviet apartments and have built themselves a newer home on the city outskirts.

Taxes go by property value, but people pay much less in Ukraine than we do in the West. Certain things like trash are tied to the number of people registered at an address. More people equals higher rates.

Offline AKA Luke

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Re: Homelessness in Russia?
« Reply #9 on: July 15, 2014, 03:09:44 PM »

Do I read that right? Your government can evict you from your own home for not paying property taxes?


Not surprised to read that, after all non-payment of council tax can involve a stretch at her Majesty's pleasure.


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Offline Dogsoldier

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Re: Homelessness in Russia?
« Reply #10 on: July 15, 2014, 03:11:10 PM »
So if an average priced home of say 250K

$188k it says here.

Its cheap over the pond! Average house prices here are $295k





It's more like £295k down here...............

Offline Manny

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Re: Homelessness in Russia?
« Reply #11 on: July 15, 2014, 03:21:26 PM »

Do I read that right? Your government can evict you from your own home for not paying property taxes?


Not surprised to read that, after all non-payment of council tax can involve a stretch at her Majesty's pleasure.

In extreme circumstances. But they cannot make you homeless or take your property. It is a fact that the underclass are not so well catered for in the US. We have social assistance and healthcare to catch those at the bottom of the ladder. We grew up with it; its normal for us. The US doesn't have the same protections.

The problem we have is many abuse our hospitality.
Read a trip report from North Korea >>here<< - Read a trip report from South Korea, China and Hong Kong >>here<<

Look what the American media makes some people believe:
Putin often threatens to strike US with nuclear weapons.

Offline Manny

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Re: Homelessness in Russia?
« Reply #12 on: July 15, 2014, 03:27:30 PM »
So if an average priced home of say 250K

$188k it says here.

Its cheap over the pond! Average house prices here are $295k





It's more like £295k down here...............

When talking averages, your palatial residence is offset by snotters in Burnley at five grand. :chuckle:

Averages are probably pretty meaningless. In the north, you don't buy anywhere you would actually WANT to live for much less than £200k. And in the south that is probably £300k as you say.

Be happy: In America we are rich! For the price of a small semi in UK Suburbia we can have a 2500 sq ft house, a pool and stables in Florida or Oz.
Read a trip report from North Korea >>here<< - Read a trip report from South Korea, China and Hong Kong >>here<<

Look what the American media makes some people believe:
Putin often threatens to strike US with nuclear weapons.

Offline yankee

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Re: Homelessness in Russia?
« Reply #13 on: July 15, 2014, 03:30:53 PM »
So if an average priced home of say 250K

$188k it says here.

Its cheap over the pond! Average house prices here are $295k





It's more like £295k down here...............

When talking averages, your palatial residence is offset by snotters in Burnley. :chuckle:

I live in what used to be called a "blue collar" town.  Cannot even look at a house under $550,000.
What is worse than not being able to get what you don't even want?

Offline Dogsoldier

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Re: Homelessness in Russia?
« Reply #14 on: July 15, 2014, 03:34:37 PM »
So if an average priced home of say 250K

$188k it says here.

Its cheap over the pond! Average house prices here are $295k





It's more like £295k down here...............

When talking averages, your palatial residence is offset by snotters in Burnley at five grand. :chuckle:

Averages are probably pretty meaningless. In the north, you don't buy anywhere you would actually WANT to live for much less than £200k. And in the south that is probably £300k as you say.

Be happy: In America we are rich!
Or this.....
£1 property  :hidechair:

Offline sashathecat

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Re: Homelessness in Russia?
« Reply #15 on: July 15, 2014, 03:56:05 PM »
Also if you can not come up with the taxes how long will it take before the government throws you out into the street?

Do I read that right? Your government can evict you from your own home for not paying property taxes?

In the US they can put a lien on your home if you do not pay property taxes. They will take these funds (plus fees and interest) when you sell your home. If the amount accumulates to a certain extent or fines such as disrepair or code enforcement accumulate very high they can take your home. Or an investor can buy the lien and foreclose on your home taking it from under you.

In some States they can use eminent domain to seize your home for the better of the "community". This has been abused by those with money and connections. Here in Florida it is harder as we have laws protecting our homes moreso than in other States (Homestead Exemption, etc). In my wife's neighborhood in Ukraine there is a fight going on as they want to put a railway through the neighborhood. I imagine many countries have variations on the eminent domain laws.

The IRS can seize your home if you owe substantial back taxes but this is very rare.

In the US you don't ever actually own property the way the system is setup. You only lease it from banks or the almighty government.

Offline Larry

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Re: Homelessness in Russia?
« Reply #16 on: July 15, 2014, 04:10:22 PM »
Also if you can not come up with the taxes how long will it take before the government throws you out into the street?

Do I read that right? Your government can evict you from your own home for not paying property taxes?

In the US they can put a lien on your home if you do not pay property taxes. They will take these funds (plus fees and interest) when you sell your home. If the amount accumulates to a certain extent or fines such as disrepair or code enforcement accumulate very high they can take your home. Or an investor can buy the lien and foreclose on your home taking it from under you.

In some places I've worked there are annual "tax sales", auctions of real estate for which property taxes have not been paid. 

Property taxes are senior to almost all other creditors' claims, even those of financial institutions who have lent the borrower the money to purchase the property. If a bank lends you $200,000 to buy a house, and records its security interest in the house in the local office where such things are recorded, and the $3,000 in property taxes are not paid, then the local government can auction the house off to pay off the taxes.  To forestall this possibility lenders typically insist that the borrower pay the property taxes directly to them, and they in turn pay the taxes to the local government.


Offline Manny

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Re: Homelessness in Russia?
« Reply #17 on: July 15, 2014, 04:16:40 PM »
Also if you can not come up with the taxes how long will it take before the government throws you out into the street?

Do I read that right? Your government can evict you from your own home for not paying property taxes?

In the US they can put a lien on your home if you do not pay property taxes. They will take these funds (plus fees and interest) when you sell your home.

Same here. But that is an extreme measure after lots of court stuff over years.

If the amount accumulates to a certain extent or fines such as disrepair or code enforcement accumulate very high they can take your home.

I never heard of that here. It can probably theoretically happen, but is unlikely.

Or an investor can buy the lien and foreclose on your home taking it from under you.

That doesn't happen here. Not unless the lender seizes it and puts it in auction. But that takes ages of non payment of a mortgage. Not with local taxes.

In some States they can use eminent domain to seize your home for the better of the "community".

Only if you lived there 40 years and its falling around you and your 25 cats ears for all that time. And maybe you are senile or something. But generally not.

In my wife's neighborhood in Ukraine there is a fight going on as they want to put a railway through the neighborhood.

Compulsory purchase can happen for public projects. It happens, but the odds are miniscule.

The IRS can seize your home if you owe substantial back taxes but this is very rare.

Theoretically possible, but again unheard of.

In the US you don't ever actually own property the way the system is setup. You only lease it from banks or the almighty government.

Here we have leasehold (where someone owns the land the house stands on) or freehold (where you own it). But you can normally buy the freehold quite cheap; recently put into law. We bought ours last year for about $700. Although the "rent" is only something like $50 a year (I have one old property where its like $2 a year), it makes sales simpler, cuts bureaucracy and makes improvement permissions easier in the future. Its mostly a hangover from Victorian landowner days.
Read a trip report from North Korea >>here<< - Read a trip report from South Korea, China and Hong Kong >>here<<

Look what the American media makes some people believe:
Putin often threatens to strike US with nuclear weapons.

Offline sashathecat

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Re: Homelessness in Russia?
« Reply #18 on: July 15, 2014, 04:28:06 PM »
Here we have leasehold (where someone owns the land the house stands on) or freehold (where you own it). But you can normally buy the freehold quite cheap; recently put into law. We bought ours last year for about $700. Although the "rent" is only something like $50 a year, it makes sales simpler, cuts bureaucracy and makes improvement permissions easier in the future. Its mostly a hangover from Victorian landowner days.

In a few States it is the same with both leasehold and fee simple (same as your freehold). Hawaii is an example where the lands are "owned" by the natives. The leases are setup for either 20 or 99 years and you must renew the lease at expiration. They are trying to phase out the leasehold to stimulate the market.

Mexico is leasehold as well. My aunt owns what must be a several million dollar home but leases the land it sits on.

Offline Ladine

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Re: Homelessness in Russia?
« Reply #19 on: July 15, 2014, 04:53:53 PM »
sashathecat recently passed a law prohibiting at a people to take property for the loan. This can only be done in the case ? If you take a loan secured by real estate. and now it is not practiced. people are smart . Property tax , we have a but if you over 120-150 m. m And this is a site for the oligarch. Apartments in our small towns fell strongly in price. and win the one who buys a house or apartment now . In rural areas, there is even an empty house.  local authority can provide you with real estate if you intend to engage in private enterprise in agriculture

banking structure still a mess. Banks and yet still try to arrange moral blackmail for petty evasion during the loan. But their threat is no longer working  :chuckle: :)


smart will learn - a fool would teach.
Никогда не оправдывайся, если ты невиновен. Если в вас бросают грязью, к вам может и не долететь. А руки того, кто это делает, останутся в грязи. Люблю вас всех.

Offline Ladine

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Re: Homelessness in Russia?
« Reply #20 on: July 15, 2014, 05:01:21 PM »
Where do the homeless people sleep anyways?

Here is a link to a photographer who documents the homeless children living in Ukraine.

http://davidgillanders.photoshelter.com/gallery/street-children-of-ukraine/G0000unRJjlJjGrQ/

Adults will sleep under bridges or in parks. The life expectancy of a homeless person is the FSU is much lower than in a warm and sunny place here in the US I would imagine.

about children.

Children are really exist in the sewers . but it is not the fact that children do not have housing.
 It's not really orphans . children and disadvantaged families. Where parents are alcoholics and do not pay enough attention to children . In orphanages as often occur misconduct violations . and children because of their hormonal maturation and full of aggression and disagreement often go to live in a free zone . All because in orphanages children are treated as ordinary beings , who was thrown . that the child did not get used . They just give the room for housing, food, clothing . But none of the staff are not allowed to press to her and regret. because they're all equal . children grow up so full of indifference where and how they will subside . The main thing in their lives - their own pleasure.
smart will learn - a fool would teach.
Никогда не оправдывайся, если ты невиновен. Если в вас бросают грязью, к вам может и не долететь. А руки того, кто это делает, останутся в грязи. Люблю вас всех.

Offline sashathecat

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Re: Homelessness in Russia?
« Reply #21 on: July 15, 2014, 05:17:59 PM »
Where do the homeless people sleep anyways?

Here is a link to a photographer who documents the homeless children living in Ukraine.

http://davidgillanders.photoshelter.com/gallery/street-children-of-ukraine/G0000unRJjlJjGrQ/

Adults will sleep under bridges or in parks. The life expectancy of a homeless person is the FSU is much lower than in a warm and sunny place here in the US I would imagine.

about children.

Children are really exist in the sewers . but it is not the fact that children do not have housing.
 It's not really orphans . children and disadvantaged families. Where parents are alcoholics and do not pay enough attention to children . In orphanages as often occur misconduct violations . and children because of their hormonal maturation and full of aggression and disagreement often go to live in a free zone . All because in orphanages children are treated as ordinary beings , who was thrown . that the child did not get used . They just give the room for housing, food, clothing . But none of the staff are not allowed to press to her and regret. because they're all equal . children grow up so full of indifference where and how they will subside . The main thing in their lives - their own pleasure.

Yes, from what I understand this is true. The word orphan is many times used quite differently in the US and Eastern Europe. We have been doing some work on a project in this area and it is not such a simple problem. Many of the orphans still have one or both parents around, but who are incapacitated by drugs or alcohol. The kids prefer to live in groups in the streets with each other rather than in communal housing as you mention. Drug use is tied to the children's desire to live outside the confines of a shelter.

Offline Ladine

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Re: Homelessness in Russia?
« Reply #22 on: July 15, 2014, 05:24:26 PM »
Where do the homeless people sleep anyways?

Here is a link to a photographer who documents the homeless children living in Ukraine.

http://davidgillanders.photoshelter.com/gallery/street-children-of-ukraine/G0000unRJjlJjGrQ/

Adults will sleep under bridges or in parks. The life expectancy of a homeless person is the FSU is much lower than in a warm and sunny place here in the US I would imagine.

about children.

Children are really exist in the sewers . but it is not the fact that children do not have housing.
 It's not really orphans . children and disadvantaged families. Where parents are alcoholics and do not pay enough attention to children . In orphanages as often occur misconduct violations . and children because of their hormonal maturation and full of aggression and disagreement often go to live in a free zone . All because in orphanages children are treated as ordinary beings , who was thrown . that the child did not get used . They just give the room for housing, food, clothing . But none of the staff are not allowed to press to her and regret. because they're all equal . children grow up so full of indifference where and how they will subside . The main thing in their lives - their own pleasure.

Yes, from what I understand this is true. The word orphan is many times used quite differently in the US and Eastern Europe. We have been doing some work on a project in this area and it is not such a simple problem. Many of the orphans still have one or both parents around, but who are incapacitated by drugs or alcohol. The kids prefer to live in groups in the streets with each other rather than in communal housing as you mention. Drug use is tied to the children's desire to live outside the confines of a shelter.

 just at our have 23 years of life completely disrupted the country. and now that time is needed to create it all over again. But recently took one child 5 months my mother 15 years. just because a minor child engaged guy (Brother mother and the child was neglected very much.'s another orphan)

I no longer understand what I write. I hope your understand?

 мозги уже на прочь отказываются от иностранных языков .
smart will learn - a fool would teach.
Никогда не оправдывайся, если ты невиновен. Если в вас бросают грязью, к вам может и не долететь. А руки того, кто это делает, останутся в грязи. Люблю вас всех.

Offline Annushka

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Re: Homelessness in Russia?
« Reply #23 on: July 16, 2014, 02:27:44 AM »

Homelessness in Russia. I have an understanding that most everyone in Russia and Ukraine is assigned a home that they own 100%. A provision from the old Soviet Union days. I understand there are renters but as a percentage how many? In America about one third of "homeowners" own their home without debt. The other 2 thirds pay a mortgage (loan) to a bank and usually for 30 years. Are there mortgages there? If so what is the usual conditions of this loan?

Also in regard to property taxes. Here in America as a general rule about 1% of the value of the home is to be paid to the government in taxes. The average price of a house with it's land in America is about $250,000. Of course some places are far higher (Manhattan) and far lower (rural Mississippi). So if an average priced home of say 250K the yearly taxes would be about $2,500. What could you expect in Russia and Ukraine?

Also if you can not come up with the taxes how long will it take before the government throws you out into the street? Where do the homeless people sleep anyways?

While I am asking questions. Is turkey available there? And to those Russian and Ukrainian women who have tasted turkey do you like it?





Maxx, I have a friend in Twitter from Australia. His family first wave of immigrants from Russia. Although he was a professor of economics in Japan, now in Australia universities. Alex wants to return to his family home - in Russia. He was interested in my story about Siberia. And requested advice on the acquisition of real estate in Russia for a foreigner. Assessment of his home in Australia also: order 250000$.

Please, links:

Foreigners in Russia: how to buy real estate?

http://ipro-blog.ru/?p=541

The cost of housing in Russia varies depending on the region.

Property tax for seniors.

http://mamadu.ru/statya/nalog-na-imushestvo-dlia-pensionerov.htm

Savings Bank of Russia. All of the mortgage.

http://www.sberbank.ru/moscow/ru/person/credits/home/mot/

As a rule, Russian homeless are illegals and guest workers. For people in difficult life situations are institutions of social care for the homeless Social Protection Committee.

PS This pompous Diet chicken nicknamed turkey lives, multiplies and is commercially available in Russia. Certainly, we will be eaten. :)

Offline Net_Lenka

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Re: Homelessness in Russia?
« Reply #24 on: July 16, 2014, 05:56:11 AM »

Homelessness in Russia. I have an understanding that most everyone in Russia and Ukraine is assigned a home that they own 100%. A provision from the old Soviet Union days. I understand there are renters but as a percentage how many? In America about one third of "homeowners" own their home without debt. The other 2 thirds pay a mortgage (loan) to a bank and usually for 30 years. Are there mortgages there? If so what is the usual conditions of this loan?

Also in regard to property taxes. Here in America as a general rule about 1% of the value of the home is to be paid to the government in taxes. The average price of a house with it's land in America is about $250,000. Of course some places are far higher (Manhattan) and far lower (rural Mississippi). So if an average priced home of say 250K the yearly taxes would be about $2,500. What could you expect in Russia and Ukraine?

Also if you can not come up with the taxes how long will it take before the government throws you out into the street? Where do the homeless people sleep anyways?

While I am asking questions. Is turkey available there? And to those Russian and Ukrainian women who have tasted turkey do you like it?

As it's not such many years passeds after the fall of the USSR then yes almost everybody do have a roof above a head yet ( bad or good one but there is  a place where to live anyway.  (I speak about average people but not about "antisocial elements" who sold their flats for a botle of vodka or about  those unfortunate people who lost there property due to some frauds with estate)


  I could be wrong with statistic   but I recall it was about 80% of privatizared "soviet" flats and the right to privatizate a flat gotten before 1991 is prolonged till 2015. Privatizated flat means you have no debts, and taxes are counted from "official" price wich is more than 10 times lower than what you could get at a "market" if you decide to sell your flat . The last bill with taxes  we got for our three rooms Moscow flat was about 1500 RUB (for a year) For comaprison we paid 1200 rub tax for the car at the same time.
With such amounts it's indeed hard to get in troubles because of not paying taxes. But the talks is going to change the rules for we would pay much more .... well we will see .. till now we could only thank former Soviet Union for our flat .

Paiment for communal servises ( gaz-water-electricy and e.ts)  is another case With "average' amount about 3000 rub per month it easely to get into situation when some day you face  a huge debt if you  didn't pay your bills. ( for some reasone - like losing job or not having movey to pay bills because of paying bill for somehealth care) But our state is still too human in such cases - nobody could be thrown on street even in this cases  I recall only few "show-off" cases when families were punished whith moving to tiny social rooms because they didn't pay communal bills for years.

 And it's different situation if you deal with debt to bank for your flat - here there would be no mercy in a case you could not pay mortage -- bank would get your flat and it 's your problem where to live

I can't provide 100% correct numbers for mortage as "it's all depends" but one for sure it's VERY expensive game. First paiment various from 10% till 50% of the whole price and % for mortage goes from 8-10% (some special state progamms - like programm for "young family" or for teachers"   till 18(20)%.  Average cost for Moscow estate - 4000$ per 1m2 , average salary in MOsocw about 1500$ And if  it's possible to belive statistics 13% of Russians got credit  mortage in 2013

It's above me to get who are those people who are too "optimistic"  to deal with mortage  To my mind  the real way for new generation to get a place to live is a rent - ( or waiting till some grand mother with soviet flat die to sell out her flat and only then get a mortage)
- А Вы кто такой будете?
-Тьфу на Вас
-А фамилия Ваша как?  -Тьфу на Вас еще раз .. а фамилия моя слишком известная, чтобы я её называл