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Author Topic: The View from the Ukrainian Side on the Subject of Ukraine.  (Read 106708 times)

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Online Tom Cat

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Re: The View from the Ukrainian Side on the Subject of Ukraine.
« Reply #3195 on: December 01, 2017, 06:20:22 PM »
Blogger says Ukraine retakes another village in Donbas, ATO HQ reports on "improving tactical positions"Read more on UNIAN:

 https://www.unian.info/m/war/2273644-blogger-says-ukraine-retakes-another-village-in-donbas-ato-hq-reports-on-improving-tactical-positions.html
Don't shoot the messenger, links to articles posted, don't necessarily reflect my personal opinion.

Online Tom Cat

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Re: The View from the Ukrainian Side on the Subject of Ukraine.
« Reply #3196 on: December 04, 2017, 09:48:30 AM »
Escalation in Donbas: 30 attacks on Ukraine troops, 3 WIA's in last dayRead more on UNIAN:

 https://www.unian.info/m/war/2276106-escalation-in-donbas-30-attacks-on-ukraine-troops-3-wias-in-last-day.html
Don't shoot the messenger, links to articles posted, don't necessarily reflect my personal opinion.

Online dcguyusa

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Online AvHdB

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Re: The View from the Ukrainian Side on the Subject of Ukraine.
« Reply #3198 on: April 30, 2018, 06:49:08 PM »
Is this a "game changer"?   

http://www.newsweek.com/america-sends-ukraine-javelin-anti-tank-missiles-how-will-putin-respond-905776

http://www.businessinsider.com/us-ukraine-javelin-anti-tank-missile-system-2018-4

Anyhow, another "win-win" situation for defense contractors.   :thumbsup: :chuckle:

No it is not a game changer.

Some 'journalists' do not understand the nature of this 'war'. I can only feel pity for those trapped and helpless in this war zone.

Yes there are some happy defense contractors.
“If you aren't in over your head, how do you know how tall you are?” T.S. Eliot

Online Steveboy

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Re: The View from the Ukrainian Side on the Subject of Ukraine.
« Reply #3199 on: May 11, 2018, 07:15:19 AM »
Is this a "game changer"?   

http://www.newsweek.com/america-sends-ukraine-javelin-anti-tank-missiles-how-will-putin-respond-905776

http://www.businessinsider.com/us-ukraine-javelin-anti-tank-missile-system-2018-4

Anyhow, another "win-win" situation for defense contractors.   :thumbsup: :chuckle:

No it is not a game changer.

Some 'journalists' do not understand the nature of this 'war'. I can only feel pity for those trapped and helpless in this war zone.

Yes there are some happy defense contractors.

Yes but that war zone has its benefits , well it must have? As every Ukrainian women searching a foreign husband in the war zone has an old phone.. no food... no internet... and of course wait for it!! No Passport...
I support no government anywhere, ever, never. No institution, No religion!!

Online Jerash

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Re: The View from the Ukrainian Side on the Subject of Ukraine.
« Reply #3200 on: May 15, 2018, 04:45:54 PM »
Is this a "game changer"?   

http://www.newsweek.com/america-sends-ukraine-javelin-anti-tank-missiles-how-will-putin-respond-905776

http://www.businessinsider.com/us-ukraine-javelin-anti-tank-missile-system-2018-4

Anyhow, another "win-win" situation for defense contractors.   :thumbsup: :chuckle:

No it is not a game changer.

Some 'journalists' do not understand the nature of this 'war'. I can only feel pity for those trapped and helpless in this war zone.

Yes there are some happy defense contractors.

Yes but that war zone has its benefits , well it must have? As every Ukrainian women searching a foreign husband in the war zone has an old phone.. no food... no internet... and of course wait for it!! No Passport...

There’s all KINDS of benefits to war! I even have some students with family members in the “war zone”. Not a lot actually going on there except Ukrainians occasionally trying to kill people and also preventing people from visiting their family members!


.

Online msmoby

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Re: The View from the Ukrainian Side on the Subject of Ukraine.
« Reply #3201 on: May 15, 2018, 11:18:37 PM »

There’s all KINDS of benefits to war! I even have some students with family members in the “war zone”. Not a lot actually going on there except Ukrainians occasionally trying to kill people and also preventing people from visiting their family members!


.

Given the OSCE website that covers the Minsk 2 agreed observers, reports - just as often - shells coming from the rebel side - you just misrepresented the facts on the ground....

I am sure there are LOTS of sad goings on being committed by both sides in the 'interests of security' ....


Online AvHdB

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Re: The View from the Ukrainian Side on the Subject of Ukraine.
« Reply #3202 on: May 17, 2018, 07:08:02 AM »
https://maritime-executive.com/article/ukraine-and-russia-face-off-over-fishing-boat#gs.yZwB8qA

One would think and hope that some captains would be intelligent enough to operate outside a military border.

On the other side is perhaps Russia provoking Ukraine?

Or did Ukraine capture a 'vessel' in Russian or International waters?
“If you aren't in over your head, how do you know how tall you are?” T.S. Eliot

Online andrewfi

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Re: The View from the Ukrainian Side on the Subject of Ukraine.
« Reply #3203 on: May 17, 2018, 07:23:54 AM »
https://maritime-executive.com/article/ukraine-and-russia-face-off-over-fishing-boat#gs.yZwB8qA

One would think and hope that some captains would be intelligent enough to operate outside a military border.

On the other side is perhaps Russia provoking Ukraine?

Or did Ukraine capture a 'vessel' in Russian or International waters?

The arrest is actually because the papers carried by the ship were 'incorrect', that is they showed registration at Kerch, a port in Crimea. The Ukrainians say that the port is Ukrainian but has been closed by them and thus the documents are fake. This is not about where the ship was sailing but that the vessel was registered in Kerch but was flying a Russian flag. And yes, that is pretty bogus. The prosecuting authority is the Ukrainian prosecutor's office for Crimea

The Russians have pulled in a Ukrainian vessel (on the 4th May) for activities within the Russian Exclusive Economic Zone. Now, that, on the part of the Ukrainian master was a bit silly because that was about location and thus could easily have been prevented.

This from a Ukrainian site gives the story for both vessels. It can be seen how the Ukrainians have to twist themselves in knots to make the justification for the arrest of the Russian vessel: https://www.unian.info/politics/10119596-fsb-says-ukrainian-fishing-vessel-yamk-0041-seized.html

"For what else is the life of man but a kind of play in which men in various costumes perform until the director motions them offstage?" -Erasmus

Online AvHdB

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Re: The View from the Ukrainian Side on the Subject of Ukraine.
« Reply #3204 on: May 17, 2018, 07:37:11 AM »
https://maritime-executive.com/article/ukraine-and-russia-face-off-over-fishing-boat#gs.yZwB8qA

One would think and hope that some captains would be intelligent enough to operate outside a military border.

On the other side is perhaps Russia provoking Ukraine?

Or did Ukraine capture a 'vessel' in Russian or International waters?

The arrest is actually because the papers carried by the ship were 'incorrect', that is they showed registration at Kerch, a port in Crimea. The Ukrainians say that the port is Ukrainian but has been closed by them and thus the documents are fake. This is not about where the ship was sailing but that the vessel was registered in Kerch but was flying a Russian flag. And yes, that is pretty bogus. The prosecuting authority is the Ukrainian prosecutor's office for Crimea

The Russians have pulled in a Ukrainian vessel (on the 4th May) for activities within the Russian Exclusive Economic Zone. Now, that, on the part of the Ukrainian master was a bit silly because that was about location and thus could easily have been prevented.

This from a Ukrainian site gives the story for both vessels. It can be seen how the Ukrainians have to twist themselves in knots to make the justification for the arrest of the Russian vessel: https://www.unian.info/politics/10119596-fsb-says-ukrainian-fishing-vessel-yamk-0041-seized.html

Just read both posts and some more information. Basically the martime border is presently undefined. Russia is asserting that it solely controls the Kerch Strait. It is worth noting that numerous UN votes/declarations have declared that the Strait is not to be touched or altered and free passage for all vessels.
“If you aren't in over your head, how do you know how tall you are?” T.S. Eliot

Online andrewfi

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Re: The View from the Ukrainian Side on the Subject of Ukraine.
« Reply #3205 on: May 17, 2018, 07:46:38 AM »
Of course the border is 'undefined' but it is a known unknown. Given what we know, it would seem that the Ukrainians acted against the spirit of those UN declarations - there was no reason to pull over the vessel apart from it carrying the 'wrong' flag in a situation where it was reasonable that the vessel would be flying the flag it did. Every vessel from Kerch is flying the Russian flag and, if registered at Kerch, is on the Russian registry, so this was a deliberate provocation.

On the other hand, the Russians pulled over the Ukrainian vessel for what seems likely to be a genuine issue - fishing in an area for which it did not have a permit. One might argue that the Russians should let the Ukrainian vessel get away with it and, perhaps, absent the Ukrainian silliness a few days earlier, that might have happened. However, if the vessel did not have a permit to fish in the area then pulling it in was justifiable.

"For what else is the life of man but a kind of play in which men in various costumes perform until the director motions them offstage?" -Erasmus

Online msmoby

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Re: The View from the Ukrainian Side on the Subject of Ukraine.
« Reply #3206 on: May 17, 2018, 08:35:02 AM »
Andrewfi seems to be confused as to what is de jure and de facto

The Kremlin chose to send in GRU operatives to wrest control of a region that was majority ethnically supportive.  That region is still recognised by most nations of the world as being part of ..... Ukraine

I'm writing from a place where any letter from outside Turkey will not get delivered unless it says Mersin 10, Turkey - yet it is Cyprus.

Such games have been going on for over 50 years ... 

Can you fly from outside Russia direct to Simferopol's lovely new airport ?

I suspect lot's of folks will be using Krasnodar or Rostov to get to Crimea.... Thank goodness for the bridge(s)..



 

Online Confederate

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Re: The View from the Ukrainian Side on the Subject of Ukraine.
« Reply #3207 on: May 17, 2018, 10:36:36 AM »
Is this a "game changer"?   

http://www.newsweek.com/america-sends-ukraine-javelin-anti-tank-missiles-how-will-putin-respond-905776

http://www.businessinsider.com/us-ukraine-javelin-anti-tank-missile-system-2018-4

Anyhow, another "win-win" situation for defense contractors.   :thumbsup: :chuckle:

No it is not a game changer.

Some 'journalists' do not understand the nature of this 'war'. I can only feel pity for those trapped and helpless in this war zone.

Yes there are some happy defense contractors.

Yes but that war zone has its benefits , well it must have? As every Ukrainian women searching a foreign husband in the war zone has an old phone.. no food... no internet... and of course wait for it!! No Passport...

https://j4l.com/user_525865.love

Online andrewfi

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Re: The View from the Ukrainian Side on the Subject of Ukraine.
« Reply #3208 on: May 18, 2018, 04:27:01 AM »
moby, go and re-read what I wrote. You will see that I referred to 'known unknowns'. this is information where we do not know the detail but we know the situation. In this case, even if Ukrainian seafarers do not themselves recognise that Russia is now the controlling power of the area in which they are sailing they sure as shit should know that Russia does and thus a sensible captain or helmsman will either avoid fishing in areas controlled by Russia or make sure they have the correct documentation.

In the case of the Kerch ship impounded by the Ukrainians, the ship carried the only documentation that a ship sailing from that port could carry. Not even Ukraine recognises the port as being Ukrainian - they maintain a fiction of the port being closed. The master of the Russian vessel had done all that could be done in the situation. The Ukrainians chose to make a provocation, given that there are many vessels registered in Kerch.

The majority of your words are irrelevant invention, you must be very bored at the moment. Have you run out of things to do, or inheritance?

"For what else is the life of man but a kind of play in which men in various costumes perform until the director motions them offstage?" -Erasmus

Online msmoby

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Re: The View from the Ukrainian Side on the Subject of Ukraine.
« Reply #3209 on: May 18, 2018, 11:18:49 PM »
moby, go and re-read what I wrote. You will see that I referred to 'known unknowns'. this is information where we do not know the detail but we know the situation. In this case, even if Ukrainian seafarers do not themselves recognise that Russia is now the controlling power of the area in which they are sailing they sure as shit should know that Russia does and thus a sensible captain or helmsman will either avoid fishing in areas controlled by Russia or make sure they have the correct documentation.

In the case of the Kerch ship impounded by the Ukrainians, the ship carried the only documentation that a ship sailing from that port could carry. Not even Ukraine recognises the port as being Ukrainian - they maintain a fiction of the port being closed. The master of the Russian vessel had done all that could be done in the situation. The Ukrainians chose to make a provocation, given that there are many vessels registered in Kerch.

The majority of your words are irrelevant invention, you must be very bored at the moment. Have you run out of things to do, or inheritance?

Poor andrewfi has Wiz' 'affliction' for making stuff up

First, there was my 'Alfonse modus operandi' and now I'm 'flush' due to some fictional 'inheritance'  :chuckle:  On the basis of those two fantasies - one has to wonder at andrewfi's ability to read any situation ...   

My words were factual and you failed to deal with the point ... You really ARE confused between de facto ( we took it by force - and 'come and take it back') over de jure ( legally recognised status ) ....  a UN recognised part of a state .... 

HOW many nations supported Ukraine's resolutions at the UN ?   100:11 and 13:1 ( Russia - being the one)

Ukraine had every right  - as far as de jure is applicable ...     Hardly, 'provocation' ... it's de jure, their right.