The View from the Russian Side on the Subject of Ukraine.

[Maxx]

A country is breaking apart as the result of external interference

I am not sure that is generally accepted on the other side of the pond yet. Their media is still spouting that Russia is about to invade Latvia or Poland or somewhere. 

Maybe one of the thinking Americans (not Anteros with a copy/paste from Wikipedia) will enlighten us of the mood there.

I just came over from the other forum after being called a *snip* and a Putin loving scum. I said the West instigated this (Victoria Nuland) and Russia was doing in that region what we the US did back during the Cuban missile crises. I was told that was so 50 years ago and they didn't see the relevance. LiveFromUkraine mentioned you guys as possibly being more balanced and it was interesting what Bo had to say.

I wanted to see for myself. So high everyone!

[Maxx]

When writing for the paper we should always write for an audience that had no more than six years of schooling. If one wrote above that level then one would be writing beyond the ability of most readers to comprehend.

Hello Andrew. I'm curious. At what level did you write this at?

[Manny]

To sum up in a nutshell it is Ukraine who wishes to embrace and move closer to the West.

"The West" aka "The EU" aka "free money". 

Lovely story.

So does Turkey, we don't want them either.

Not happening.

[WestCoast]

If you're going to use that argument then we should reset the boundaries of many countries the world over. The UK is the head of the Commonwealth of Nations with member countries spanning the globe. Although not a member of the Commonwealth the USA is a child of the UK empire so it too would be included. Does that mean the UK has a right to control the affairs of Commonwealth countries? Pretty sure the US would disagree. Even Canada would disagree. Putin's wrong if he believes a common heritage gives him the right to dictate to the Ukrainian people.

I take your point Westy, but I think you are applying Canadian/American thinking to an FSU issue. This is where misunderstanding occurs. People who are broadly the same (Americans and British for example) can differ in how they think.

Over the years, I like to think I have a pretty good grasp of how Russians think [yes, I know they don't all think the same and in some respects that is an oxymoron]. My wife is fond of telling me I think like a Russian. What she calls "thinking like a Russian" I just call common sense. But, I find myself out of step with people who think a different way - which seems to be most people here. 

Then Estonians are right to worry about Russia invading? After all ethnic Russians in Estonia have complained about poor treatment by the Estonian government.

You claim to think so much like a Russian yet live in the UK. Surely you'd want to live in Russia. Have your family live a truly Russian lifestyle? It's just common sense, isn't it?

Westy, you are just being facetious.

When you have spent as much time in the FSU as me, over a 15 year period, you can debate me. As we know, your knowledge is gleaned from your big comfy chair in Canada and Google. Not the same.

Fix a date. I'll meet you at Bocca in Tallinn. Then I'll know you have actually been to the FSU. Capiche?

You say that Putin says the common heritage between Ukraine and Russia means Putin to dictate terms to Ukraine. The same common heritage exists between Russia and Estonia.

As for meeting in Tallinn, that's not Russia, it's the former Soviet Union. Thanks to Estonia's membership in the EU and NATO, Estonia is a totally different beast.

[Anteros]

To sum up in a nutshell it is Ukraine who wishes to embrace and move closer to the West.

"The West" aka "The EU" aka "free money". 

Lovely story.

So does Turkey, we don't want them either.

Not happening.

Who is we?  You don't represent the West, you represent Putin, and contrary to your narrative he does not represent the vast majority of Russians.  Why not do as WestCoast suggested UT?

[Manny]

A country is breaking apart as the result of external interference

I am not sure that is generally accepted on the other side of the pond yet. Their media is still spouting that Russia is about to invade Latvia or Poland or somewhere. 

Maybe one of the thinking Americans (not Anteros with a copy/paste from Wikipedia) will enlighten us of the mood there.

I just came over from the other forum after being called a *snip* and a Putin loving scum. I said the West instigated this (Victoria Nuland) and Russia was doing in that region what we the US did back during the Cuban missile crises. I was told that was so 50 years ago and they didn't see the relevance. LiveFromUkraine mentioned you guys as possibly being more balanced and it was interesting what Bo had to say.

I wanted to see for myself. So high everyone!

Nice to see you back Maxx.

[NS1]

Manny, I don't disagree with all that is said about the west, nor many things that have been done.
But you tend to call anyone who disagrees with you, uninformed , not looking at the facts, as soon as someone does
he is a bloody genius. What happened in Kiev, may have been started by the west, buy violence started when Putin was not getting his way. Krym, was Putin taking advantage of the political turmoil in Ukraine. Invading a country is hard to excuse, considering.
Now in the east, it is same, most wish to try and sort out, Putin wishes to engage. I read news from both sides, including
posts made here by some good sources here. You wish us to see other side, but really for you there is one one side.

Yes I am pro Ukrainian, and I have nothing against Russia or its people. I don't take every opportunity to knock
the country and cities as you do Ukraine. Also now I see, we can't argue with you, because you have so many more years experience in Russia, ok fair enough, but you have none in Ukraine, so it seems it goes both ways. Other reality, is yes we are on the other side and not in Europe, but best I can tell, you are not in eastern Europe and almost all media including here, speaks about the west or democratic countries, which would include yours.

[Manny]

If you're going to use that argument then we should reset the boundaries of many countries the world over. The UK is the head of the Commonwealth of Nations with member countries spanning the globe. Although not a member of the Commonwealth the USA is a child of the UK empire so it too would be included. Does that mean the UK has a right to control the affairs of Commonwealth countries? Pretty sure the US would disagree. Even Canada would disagree. Putin's wrong if he believes a common heritage gives him the right to dictate to the Ukrainian people.

I take your point Westy, but I think you are applying Canadian/American thinking to an FSU issue. This is where misunderstanding occurs. People who are broadly the same (Americans and British for example) can differ in how they think.

Over the years, I like to think I have a pretty good grasp of how Russians think [yes, I know they don't all think the same and in some respects that is an oxymoron]. My wife is fond of telling me I think like a Russian. What she calls "thinking like a Russian" I just call common sense. But, I find myself out of step with people who think a different way - which seems to be most people here. 

Then Estonians are right to worry about Russia invading? After all ethnic Russians in Estonia have complained about poor treatment by the Estonian government.

You claim to think so much like a Russian yet live in the UK. Surely you'd want to live in Russia. Have your family live a truly Russian lifestyle? It's just common sense, isn't it?

Westy, you are just being facetious.

When you have spent as much time in the FSU as me, over a 15 year period, you can debate me. As we know, your knowledge is gleaned from your big comfy chair in Canada and Google. Not the same.

Fix a date. I'll meet you at Bocca in Tallinn. Then I'll know you have actually been to the FSU. Capiche?

You say that Putin says the common heritage between Ukraine and Russia means Putin to dictate terms to Ukraine. The same common heritage exists between Russia and Estonia.

As for meeting in Tallinn, that's not Russia, it's the former Soviet Union. Thanks to Estonia's membership in the EU and NATO, Estonia is a totally different beast.

Fine.

I'll meet you at Восточный Экспресс then.

Name the day.

[NS1]

If you're going to use that argument then we should reset the boundaries of many countries the world over. The UK is the head of the Commonwealth of Nations with member countries spanning the globe. Although not a member of the Commonwealth the USA is a child of the UK empire so it too would be included. Does that mean the UK has a right to control the affairs of Commonwealth countries? Pretty sure the US would disagree. Even Canada would disagree. Putin's wrong if he believes a common heritage gives him the right to dictate to the Ukrainian people.

I take your point Westy, but I think you are applying Canadian/American thinking to an FSU issue. This is where misunderstanding occurs. People who are broadly the same (Americans and British for example) can differ in how they think.

Over the years, I like to think I have a pretty good grasp of how Russians think [yes, I know they don't all think the same and in some respects that is an oxymoron]. My wife is fond of telling me I think like a Russian. What she calls "thinking like a Russian" I just call common sense. But, I find myself out of step with people who think a different way - which seems to be most people here. 

Then Estonians are right to worry about Russia invading? After all ethnic Russians in Estonia have complained about poor treatment by the Estonian government.

You claim to think so much like a Russian yet live in the UK. Surely you'd want to live in Russia. Have your family live a truly Russian lifestyle? It's just common sense, isn't it?

Westy, you are just being facetious.

When you have spent as much time in the FSU as me, over a 15 year period, you can debate me. As we know, your knowledge is gleaned from your big comfy chair in Canada and Google. Not the same.

Fix a date. I'll meet you at Bocca in Tallinn. Then I'll know you have actually been to the FSU. Capiche?

You say that Putin says the common heritage between Ukraine and Russia means Putin to dictate terms to Ukraine. The same common heritage exists between Russia and Estonia.

As for meeting in Tallinn, that's not Russia, it's the former Soviet Union. Thanks to Estonia's membership in the EU and NATO, Estonia is a totally different beast.

Fine.

I'll meet you at Восточный Экспресс then.

Name the day.

I will meet you in Western Ukraine, I will wear a Canadian flag on my jacket, how about you wear a Russian one

[yankee]

Interesting note.  CBS news just reported that the fire in Odesa was caused by Ukraine Nationalists.

[mhr7]

Interesting note.  CBS news just reported that the fire in Odesa was caused by Ukraine Nationalists.

That's what all the western media I've read have said also. I don't think it's being disputed. Or is it?

[yankee]

Interesting note.  CBS news just reported that the fire in Odesa was caused by Ukraine Nationalists.

That's what all the western media I've read have said also. I don't think it's being disputed. Or is it?

It was for a while.

[PBRstreetg]

Go about yer bad self Manny 
since I'm gearing up for another trip to BY, no definite
plans for Bocca
 
http://sparkling.ee/pohjala-naudingud/

[Maxx]

Nice to see you back Maxx.

Nice to see you also. I only recently started posting on these forums regularly. Middle of next year I retire and have given some thought on being an expat like you and Andrew. Lets face it the dollar (for now) goes farther and frankly I need to break out of my American rut. Perhaps someday we will meet up?

[Millaa]

Interesting note.  CBS news just reported that the fire in Odesa was caused by Ukraine Nationalists.

That's what all the western media I've read have said also. I don't think it's being disputed. Or is it?

It was for a while.

And in 2009 West acknowledged that Georgia was the aggressor in the South Ossetian conflict. A year later then events. 

[Maxx]

And in 2009 West acknowledged that Georgia was the aggressor in the South Ossetian conflict. A year later then events. 

I remind people of that but it goes over their heads. Here in America all we heard was Russia was attacking Georgia.

[WestCoast]

If you're going to use that argument then we should reset the boundaries of many countries the world over. The UK is the head of the Commonwealth of Nations with member countries spanning the globe. Although not a member of the Commonwealth the USA is a child of the UK empire so it too would be included. Does that mean the UK has a right to control the affairs of Commonwealth countries? Pretty sure the US would disagree. Even Canada would disagree. Putin's wrong if he believes a common heritage gives him the right to dictate to the Ukrainian people.

I take your point Westy, but I think you are applying Canadian/American thinking to an FSU issue. This is where misunderstanding occurs. People who are broadly the same (Americans and British for example) can differ in how they think.

Over the years, I like to think I have a pretty good grasp of how Russians think [yes, I know they don't all think the same and in some respects that is an oxymoron]. My wife is fond of telling me I think like a Russian. What she calls "thinking like a Russian" I just call common sense. But, I find myself out of step with people who think a different way - which seems to be most people here. 

Then Estonians are right to worry about Russia invading? After all ethnic Russians in Estonia have complained about poor treatment by the Estonian government.

You claim to think so much like a Russian yet live in the UK. Surely you'd want to live in Russia. Have your family live a truly Russian lifestyle? It's just common sense, isn't it?

Westy, you are just being facetious.

When you have spent as much time in the FSU as me, over a 15 year period, you can debate me. As we know, your knowledge is gleaned from your big comfy chair in Canada and Google. Not the same.

Fix a date. I'll meet you at Bocca in Tallinn. Then I'll know you have actually been to the FSU. Capiche?

You say that Putin says the common heritage between Ukraine and Russia means Putin to dictate terms to Ukraine. The same common heritage exists between Russia and Estonia.

As for meeting in Tallinn, that's not Russia, it's the former Soviet Union. Thanks to Estonia's membership in the EU and NATO, Estonia is a totally different beast.

Fine.

I'll meet you at Восточный Экспресс then.

Name the day.

No thanks. That's your new TOS? Anyone who dares disagree with Manny has to meet you in some Russia to prove himself? If that's your new TOS you're going to be doing a lot of travelling. 

Although I was in London last summer and I thought about travelling north and introducing myself. Perhaps that'd be easier? Everyone just drop in and introduce themselves when they're in England? Got a spare room for overnight guests?

[sashathecat]

Good topic and something many of us Americans are not normally exposed to. I usually get my sources on the events in Ukraine from American and Ukrainian media as well as first hand accounts from inside the country. Unfortunately I do not read Cyrillic so am usually at a loss in that department. Thank you for the links I would not normally view Manny and Andrew.

Are you anti-Russia? Or pro-Russia? Anti-Ukraine or pro-Ukraine?

I am pro Ukraine, and only because my wife is from there. I am certainly not anti-Russian. Many of our friends are actually Russian and I prefer to spend time with them over quite a few Americans lately. I am certainly not happy about what is occurring in my wife's hometown though and many of her Russian friends here in the US are ashamed about what is occurring.

Maybe one of the thinking Americans (not Anteros with a copy/paste from Wikipedia) will enlighten us of the mood there.

There is very little in the news concerning Ukraine here. Most Americans do not care and do not want to get involved. The overall feeling being Russia is evil of course.

[sashathecat]

Interesting note.  CBS news just reported that the fire in Odesa was caused by Ukraine Nationalists.

That's what all the western media I've read have said also. I don't think it's being disputed. Or is it?

It was for a while.

The local news and preliminary investigations are saying it was the pro Russians on one of the upper floors.

http://dumskaya.net/news/gschs-prichinoj-pogara-v-dome-profsoyuzov-mogli--035329/

[CC3]

From the Russian-speaker Ukrainian side: my Ukrainian fiancee, from Lugansk, is saddened, sickened and disgusted by what dictator Putin is inflicting upon her country. She is a lot more credible than some deluded Brits and other russophiles on this forum. She is living in the midst of the fear, pain and worry...not in the socialist paradise of the UK.

[Maxx]

Good topic and something many of us Americans are not normally exposed to. I usually get my sources on the events in Ukraine from American and Ukrainian media as well as first hand accounts from inside the country. Unfortunately I do not read Cyrillic so am usually at a loss in that department. Thank you for the links I would not normally view Manny and Andrew.

Are you anti-Russia? Or pro-Russia? Anti-Ukraine or pro-Ukraine?

I am pro Ukraine, and only because my wife is from there. I am certainly not anti-Russian. Many of our friends are actually Russian and I prefer to spend time with them over quite a few Americans lately. I am certainly not happy about what is occurring in my wife's hometown though and many of her Russian friends here in the US are ashamed about what is occurring.

Maybe one of the thinking Americans (not Anteros with a copy/paste from Wikipedia) will enlighten us of the mood there.

There is very little in the news concerning Ukraine here. Most Americans do not care and do not want to get involved. The overall feeling being Russia is evil of course.

You seem like a balanced man.

[yankee]

From the Russian-speaker Ukrainian side: my Ukrainian fiancee, from Lugansk, is saddened, sickened and disgusted by what dictator Putin is inflicting upon her country. She is a lot more credible than some deluded Brits and other russophiles on this forum. She is living in the midst of the fear, pain and worry...not in the socialist paradise of the UK.

Did it occur to you that some of us may have family and friends that live there?   this particular thread is for thoes that disagree with all of our Ukraine friends here.

[CC3]

From the Russian-speaker Ukrainian side: my Ukrainian fiancee, from Lugansk, is saddened, sickened and disgusted by what dictator Putin is inflicting upon her country. She is a lot more credible than some deluded Brits and other russophiles on this forum. She is living in the midst of the fear, pain and worry...not in the socialist paradise of the UK.

Did it occur to you that some of us may have family and friends that live there?   this particular thread is for thoes that disagree with all of our Ukraine friends here.

As far as I know about you, your wife is with you in the US. I haven't seen too many pro-Ukrainian sentiments in this forum, thus why I have not posted here in quite a while. My fiancee and her daughter could be in GRU/Spetsnaz rifle sights at any given moment of the day.They are under real threat to their lives.

[yankee]

From the Russian-speaker Ukrainian side: my Ukrainian fiancee, from Lugansk, is saddened, sickened and disgusted by what dictator Putin is inflicting upon her country. She is a lot more credible than some deluded Brits and other russophiles on this forum. She is living in the midst of the fear, pain and worry...not in the socialist paradise of the UK.

Did it occur to you that some of us may have family and friends that live there?   this particular thread is for those that disagree with all of our Ukraine friends here.

As far as I know about you, your wife is with you in the US. I haven't seen too many pro-Ukrainian sentiments in this forum, thus why I have not posted here in quite a while. My fiancee and her daughter could be in GRU/Spetsnaz rifle sights at any given moment of the day.They are under real threat to their lives.

Do some more reading.  Most threads are pro-Ukrainian (including right sector).  I understand your fears and agree with you we have friends that have the same fears about the extreme nationalists

[Millaa]

..On Ukraine and Crimea crisis, Gregor Gysi (The Left), subtitled. I don't know why link is not working.

http://pastebin.com/0h2ybPvN