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Author Topic: About Sexually Transmitted Diseases  (Read 7733 times)

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Offline Mikeav8r

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Re: About Sexually Transmitted Diseases
« Reply #30 on: April 03, 2014, 04:11:12 PM »
My experiences of American healthcare were dire; approaching third world and treated like a dog. Until, they got the fax from a London insurance company saying they would pay. At that point, it became world class. Couldn't fault a thing after that.

The whole insurance thing seems really complicated there and quality of care seems very dependent on income. If you are poor you can die in the gutter is how Brits think of America. When we go there we have to load up on a bunch of insurances. Which as a visitor is probably right (visitors should not burden the American taxpayer), but as a resident citizen one expects a safety net in a civilised society to catch the poor and unfortunate.

I prefer our system where it is funded from general taxation and on the whole, works quite well. You can upgrade aspects of it if you happen to have additional insurance or money, but the standard system works fine for most people.

My Dad had a stent fitted to his heart last year. Great job they did, he is fit as a flea again now, and the cost to him was £0. What would that cost if he had to pay? £5000? He is lucky in that if he needed to pay he could, but not everyone can. What if he was a poor bloke in America that didn't have £5k? Would he die waiting? I'm not sure. Maybe an American can clue me in.

If he was poor, he would probably be on Medicare or Medicaid which would cover him (I am almost certain)..I can't really say for sure as I am not real familiar with the process.  Regarding the income statement.  Insurance companies and hospitals don't care how much money you make.  If you carry the same insurance card, you will get exactly the same treatment.  Our CEO has the same plan as his secretary...they get the same care.  Actually, she might get better care  :biggrin:  He makes 8 million a year and she makes ~40K
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Online andrewfi

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Re: About Sexually Transmitted Diseases
« Reply #31 on: April 03, 2014, 04:22:46 PM »
Manny, nail on head!

When I started looking at what Sasha told us upthread, not that I thought he was being untruthful but because I wanted a sanity check because what he told me did not correlate with what I understood to be the case, a thing struck me.

He was not entirely wrong. There are programs, there are funds, there is charity. There's absolutely not enough to enable the US to meet their own goals which, for epidemiological reasons are very similar to Estonia. Estonia, as with other countries that have the concept that healthcare is a basic human right does its best to ensure that such goals are met, even if they do a little jiggery pokery to get there - as in the early noughties!

Can you imagine a situation where you had to purposefully lose your job in order to have a chance at life saving health care? Can you imagine 'mr and mrs average' negotiating the conflicting terms and conditions of a multitude of funds, benefits and charities just to get drugs?

In the UK (or here) it is pretty simple. Go to doctor, get referral to specialist, get treatment GET LIFE. No battles, no bankruptcies, no loss of dignity and NO DEATH. OK we all die at some point and I'd bet that the outcome for a fully covered HIV sufferer (18%) in the US is probably better than the average (80%) here. Being average, in this regard does not sit badly with me.
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Offline Manny

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Re: About Sexually Transmitted Diseases
« Reply #32 on: April 03, 2014, 04:33:54 PM »
I suppose in America, where insurance funded healthcare is a fact of life for most, one is brought up with it, budgets for it, and accepts it as the norm. Most of the middle class will pay whatever premiums they need to in order to get the cover they want. They likely view it as we view car insurance or utilities. Just another necessary monthly bill that cannot be avoided.

I don't profess to know the difference between Medicaid, Medicare or how that relates to or differs from Obamacare, but those things sound like mechanisms to catch those at the bottom of society.

The question is, if an American gets an STD/AIDS, and has no money/insurance, does he get proper care?
please tell me where I'm being / have been 'dishonest'? 
Yes, he said that.........


Online andrewfi

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Re: About Sexually Transmitted Diseases
« Reply #33 on: April 03, 2014, 04:44:48 PM »
If a USAian gets HIV then he has about a 1 in 2 chance of getting treatment.

About 18% of HIV sufferers have insurance coverage. I posted the numbers upthread.

The US has a target of 80% of HIV sufferers getting treatment, as I recall, the number is about 44%.

STD's are easy. Some do, some don't but unlike HIV one is not spending a couple of thousand dollars a month on anti retro-viral drugs for the rest of one's life.

===================
By the way, 5000 pounds would not even start to cover the costs of your dad's procedure. I am guessing at 10 times that figure - OK OCD me checked. Obviously how long is a piece of string issue but I found numbers ranging from just under 30K to just under 70k USD.

Even in the UK it'd not get there. For example, a couple of months ago, I had a very minor outpatient treatment to remove a small tumour thingy. It turned out to be benign, thank god, but it cost 500 pounds.
...everything ends always well; if it’s still bad, then it’s not the end!

Offline sashathecat

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Re: About Sexually Transmitted Diseases
« Reply #34 on: April 03, 2014, 04:46:03 PM »
Probably the same thing in Ukraine as happened in Estonia.

Much panic and hand wringing ensues but no money to pay for everything - testing, education of healthcare professionals, drugs, hospital beds, outreach, the whole mish mash.
In Estonia (as in much of the FSU) UNAIDS, the EU and other actors came on the scene with a bunch of cash for increasing awareness among the health care folks, in part because the EU folks don't want all the whores in the country giving HIV to every sex tourist that pops along. Don't believe me, read some newspaper archives from Finnish and Swedish newspapers from the early noughties and you will get the picture in respect of Estonia and other nearby places.

Once the stick had been well and truly poked into the hole UNAIDS comes along to conduct a survey into the prevalence and spread of HIV among the population. They come up with truly scary numbers.

The UNAIDS study was a very simple model. They counted the number of reported cases and where the trend was upward they extrapolated it, using their own formula which looks pretty much like a straight line to us normal folks. :(

But guess what, they surveyed over the period in which the health service was busy flushing out all the cases of HIV that they could find. So, the UNAIDS numbers were a reflection of a one off bump in numbers due to the new diagnoses of existing cases.

Now, after some ten years, we can look back at the figures, we can now see the anomaly for what it was, but nobody points the finger at UNAIDS because those nice guys got Estonia millions of Euros of free hospital resources. If the same, or something similar was not the case in Ukraine I'll eat my hat because they had UNAIDS in, they had EU money.

Yes, I am sure the situation is very similar to what occurred in Estonia. Organizations arrived and immediately began to tackle the epidemic. They first started testing the street kids (of whom almost all are infected), prostitutes, prisoners and IV users. Next they began to test those infected with TB in the facilities on the city outskirts. They found many with TB were also HIV positive and projected scary numbers as you say.

Now, the numbers are more in line, but the rate is still very high. In Odessa there are reasons for that just like we have our different reasons here in South Florida. The numbers in Ukraine have actually dropped recently. But they do not tell you funding for many programs was cut and mandatory testing for prisoners and military personnel was done away with.

Online andrewfi

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Re: About Sexually Transmitted Diseases
« Reply #35 on: April 03, 2014, 05:02:59 PM »
Yes, in Estonia we too have regional variations with social reasons for the variation. I can tell you this, my custom and practice would be different if I were living in Narva and hooking up with young women.
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Offline Mikeav8r

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Re: About Sexually Transmitted Diseases
« Reply #36 on: April 03, 2014, 05:06:13 PM »
I suppose in America, where insurance funded healthcare is a fact of life for most, one is brought up with it, budgets for it, and accepts it as the norm. Most of the middle class will pay whatever premiums they need to in order to get the cover they want. They likely view it as we view car insurance or utilities. Just another necessary monthly bill that cannot be avoided.

I don't profess to know the difference between Medicaid, Medicare or how that relates to or differs from Obamacare, but those things sound like mechanisms to catch those at the bottom of society.

The question is, if an American gets an STD/AIDS, and has no money/insurance, does he get proper care?

Exactly.  A normal way of life for us like paying any other bill, but in this case it is simply taken from our paychecks like taxes.

STD other than AIDS, yes.  Plenty of free clinics with a quick shot of "cillin" in the bum.  AIDS, I do not know other than what Sasha mentioned earlier.  One of the key factors is that they have to want treatment, not be ashamed of it, and reach out.  Many in that economical category don't which is a shame.
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Offline Mikeav8r

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Re: About Sexually Transmitted Diseases
« Reply #37 on: April 03, 2014, 05:07:32 PM »
If a USAian gets HIV then he has about a 1 in 2 chance of getting treatment.

About 18% of HIV sufferers have insurance coverage. I posted the numbers upthread.

The US has a target of 80% of HIV sufferers getting treatment, as I recall, the number is about 44%.

STD's are easy. Some do, some don't but unlike HIV one is not spending a couple of thousand dollars a month on anti retro-viral drugs for the rest of one's life.

===================
By the way, 5000 pounds would not even start to cover the costs of your dad's procedure. I am guessing at 10 times that figure - OK OCD me checked. Obviously how long is a piece of string issue but I found numbers ranging from just under 30K to just under 70k USD.

Even in the UK it'd not get there. For example, a couple of months ago, I had a very minor outpatient treatment to remove a small tumour thingy. It turned out to be benign, thank god, but it cost 500 pounds.

Would have cost me 50.  ;D   Glad to hear all is well.
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Offline sashathecat

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Re: About Sexually Transmitted Diseases
« Reply #38 on: April 03, 2014, 05:07:50 PM »
Sashathecat, I think that you may be a tad overoptimistic about the free treatment stuff in the wonderful state of Florida. ;)
A few minutes and Google tells me that there are substantial waiting lists for the Ryan White Care Act provisions in Florida, that is a program to enable people to continue under their private health care insurance.
Nationally:
Quote
According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, around half the people diagnosed with HIV in the U.S. don't receive regular health care. Of those who do, 42 percent receive Medicaid and 24 percent are uninsured.

Those numbers tell us that across the country half of all sufferers are not getting treatment, 12% are paying for their own care and insurance is covering only about 18% of HIV care. Florida will not be much different to that.

This Floridian would be, I think, happy to be living in the version of Florida in which you live. ;)

Florida is wonderful for many things like seafood and beautiful beaches, but health care is not one of them. :)
In regards to Florida being like the rest of the US....well, not so much. Florida is like an entirely different country, with it's own set of problems.

I was only speaking about care for those infected with HIV. If you are infected with HIV you can and will receive care if you want. There are numerous clinics you can walk into and get tested for free and your drugs at no cost or on a sliding scale. These are run by the State, County, and numerous private organizations (many of them run by the gay community). HIV happens to be one thing you can get help for in South Florida. Pray to God you don't break a leg or require a normal operation, because then you are really screwed.

Many of those infected here in South Florida are Haitian, who do not seek treatment as they are afraid of the stigma associated.

The Ryan White Act looks like a Federal program and I am not familiar with it tbh. The second link I am not sure why he is paying so much for his drugs. There are cocktails that are much less these days and as long as you watch your lifestyle you can live many, many years.


Offline sashathecat

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Re: About Sexually Transmitted Diseases
« Reply #39 on: April 03, 2014, 05:23:45 PM »
One of the key factors is that they have to want treatment, not be ashamed of it, and reach out.  Many in that economical category don't which is a shame.

This is one of the main issues here locally as I mentioned with the Haitians and undereducated class of immigrants. There is help, you just need to know where to get it and follow through.

Offline Anteros

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Re: About Sexually Transmitted Diseases
« Reply #40 on: April 03, 2014, 09:11:05 PM »
My experiences of American healthcare were dire; approaching third world and treated like a dog. Until, they got the fax from a London insurance company saying they would pay. At that point, it became world class. Couldn't fault a thing after that.

The whole insurance thing seems really complicated there and quality of care seems very dependent on income. If you are poor you can die in the gutter is how Brits think of America. When we go there we have to load up on a bunch of insurances. Which as a visitor is probably right (visitors should not burden the American taxpayer), but as a resident citizen one expects a safety net in a civilised society to catch the poor and unfortunate.

I prefer our system where it is funded from general taxation and on the whole, works quite well. You can upgrade aspects of it if you happen to have additional insurance or money, but the standard system works fine for most people.

My Dad had a stent fitted to his heart last year. Great job they did, he is fit as a flea again now, and the cost to him was £0. What would that cost if he had to pay? £5000? He is lucky in that if he needed to pay he could, but not everyone can. What if he was a poor bloke in America that didn't have £5k? Would he die waiting? I'm not sure. Maybe an American can clue me in.

Care must vary state by state.  Florida as Sasha mentioned must be the worst.  Other states are much better.  ER's cannot deny treatment to anyone who needs it in California and Washington, if you are having a heart attack or similar you will get immediate treatment.  Illegal Mexicans are lined up in most ER's because they know they can get free treatment there for things which in the past were not considered true emergencies and never pay for it.
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Offline sashathecat

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Re: About Sexually Transmitted Diseases
« Reply #41 on: April 03, 2014, 10:17:29 PM »
ER's cannot deny treatment to anyone who needs it in California and Washington, if you are having a heart attack or similar you will get immediate treatment.  Illegal Mexicans are lined up in most ER's because they know they can get free treatment there for things which in the past were not considered true emergencies and never pay for it.

Same thing in Florida. Emergency rooms must take everyone and the law states that as long as you make an effort towards the bill every month (even as small as $5) they cannot come after you. My earlier example of a broken leg was a poor one. The hospital will save your life, but you will not get the specialist or continuing care you require in most cases.

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Re: About Sexually Transmitted Diseases
« Reply #42 on: October 31, 2015, 08:03:03 PM »
I came across this article a while ago, and took it as just more propaganda. But after reading the RI article Russia may be lacking in its approach to dealing with HIV.

Russian HIV-Aids epidemic worsening under Kremlin policies, says expert

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/may/15/russian-hiv-aids-epidemic-worsening-under-kremlin-policies-says-expert

Russia's Orthodox Church Knows How to Stop AIDS

http://russia-insider.com/en/society/russias-orthodox-church-knows-how-stop-aids/ri10864
Don't shoot the messenger, links to articles posted, don't necessarily reflect my personal opinion.

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Re: About Sexually Transmitted Diseases
« Reply #43 on: November 01, 2015, 01:46:42 AM »
I prefer our system where it is funded from general taxation and on the whole, works quite well. You can upgrade aspects of it if you happen to have additional insurance or money, but the standard system works fine for most people.

My Dad had a stent fitted to his heart last year. Great job they did, he is fit as a flea again now, and the cost to him was £0. What would that cost if he had to pay? £5000? He is lucky in that if he needed to pay he could, but not everyone can. What if he was a poor bloke in America that didn't have £5k? Would he die waiting? I'm not sure. Maybe an American can clue me in.
Reading your comments, I remembered my big and positive impression about the British NHS, when first arrived in the UK, back in the 1970.

Back in the 60’s, when I was living in Greece and I started working for the Nationalised Energy company, we all had to pay 12% contribution to the National Health service (IKA) but what were receiving in return was a very poor and corrupt system and in most cases we had to pay additional contributions for the Medicine and the doctors (bribes).

Cutting long story short, our Union, went on indefinite strike, to be allowed to create our company’s health and Pension system. As a result and despite our colleagues in other parts of Greece cancelled the strike, we, the militants in Corfu island, went on and for 24 hours was a complete black out. We refused to go back to work and the Government in an emergency meeting of the parliament gave us the right to create our health system. For our action, refused to accept the mobilisation papers, I got a 7 months prison, which as it happens is still on my records.

Finally when the system was established, our company was collecting our contributions and was obligate to provide the service, with our own doctors etc. It was similar to the British NHS and everything was free, doctors, medicine, hospitals etc. I remember that when my wife came to UK, twice, to give birth to my sons, I was paid a set amount to cover expenses.

Today that system has been dismantled because the EU ordered Greece to privatise the Company and to be sold off for peanuts! The system lost 11 Billion Euro surplus, which was investing in the company

Whatever anybody says, the NHS in the UK is one of the best around the world and we all know it from personal experience. Unfortunately the current Government is hell bent to privatise it!

Sorry for the diversion but wanted to give another angle on the subject.

Manny, if Cameron signs the TTIP agreement…… NHS is going private to American corporations for peamuts.

I hope the British people will revolt and do the same as they did with Mrs Thacher's Poll Tax!

 :( :( :(

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Re: About Sexually Transmitted Diseases
« Reply #44 on: November 01, 2015, 03:25:46 AM »
I prefer our system where it is funded from general taxation and on the whole, works quite well. You can upgrade aspects of it if you happen to have additional insurance or money, but the standard system works fine for most people.

My Dad had a stent fitted to his heart last year. Great job they did, he is fit as a flea again now, and the cost to him was £0. What would that cost if he had to pay? £5000? He is lucky in that if he needed to pay he could, but not everyone can. What if he was a poor bloke in America that didn't have £5k? Would he die waiting? I'm not sure. Maybe an American can clue me in.
Reading your comments, I remembered my big and positive impression about the British NHS, when first arrived in the UK, back in the 1970.

Back in the 60’s, when I was living in Greece and I started working for the Nationalised Energy company, we all had to pay 12% contribution to the National Health service (IKA) but what were receiving in return was a very poor and corrupt system and in most cases we had to pay additional contributions for the Medicine and the doctors (bribes).

Cutting long story short, our Union, went on indefinite strike, to be allowed to create our company’s health and Pension system. As a result and despite our colleagues in other parts of Greece cancelled the strike, we, the militants in Corfu island, went on and for 24 hours was a complete black out. We refused to go back to work and the Government in an emergency meeting of the parliament gave us the right to create our health system. For our action, refused to accept the mobilisation papers, I got a 7 months prison, which as it happens is still on my records.

Finally when the system was established, our company was collecting our contributions and was obligate to provide the service, with our own doctors etc. It was similar to the British NHS and everything was free, doctors, medicine, hospitals etc. I remember that when my wife came to UK, twice, to give birth to my sons, I was paid a set amount to cover expenses.

Today that system has been dismantled because the EU ordered Greece to privatise the Company and to be sold off for peanuts! The system lost 11 Billion Euro surplus, which was investing in the company

Whatever anybody says, the NHS in the UK is one of the best around the world and we all know it from personal experience. Unfortunately the current Government is hell bent to privatise it!

Sorry for the diversion but wanted to give another angle on the subject.

Manny, if Cameron signs the TTIP agreement…… NHS is going private to American corporations for peamuts.

I hope the British people will revolt and do the same as they did with Mrs Thacher's Poll Tax!

 :( :( :(
So inspite of the wonderful healthcare available on Corfu you still flew your wife to the UK to give birth?
Reminds me of heavily pregnant Nigerians who arrive at LHR (or Dublin or Any American airport) and head off to the nearest hospital to pop their sprogs out. All for free, of course.
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