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Author Topic: About Sexually Transmitted Diseases  (Read 7734 times)

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Online andrewfi

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Re: About Sexually Transmitted Diseases
« Reply #15 on: April 02, 2014, 04:29:12 PM »
You live in Estonia and are not worried Andrew?

I agree that there was much bad information out there and the chances as a hetero male are much less than we were initially led to believe, but it is still an epidemic in Eastern Europe. HIV I am speaking of.

Do the numbers. I did.
The case is almost the same as for Hep B: avoid injecting druggies, prisoners and unprotected gay anal sex and the numbers speak for themselves. Factor in my age, the quantity and the age of most of my partners and several more risk factors are knocked out.

Anyway, if one were unfortunate enough to contract HIV, which is a bloody hard thing to do, then with modern treatment I'd have every expectation of living out my life in a healthy and full manner. Yes, if I were a USAian, that'd not be the case, but over here - is different, we have health care.

We have choices, we can live in fear or we can grow above fear.
Make rational choices supported by fact and be protected much better than using a condom with random partners. ;)
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Offline sashathecat

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Re: About Sexually Transmitted Diseases
« Reply #16 on: April 02, 2014, 06:06:53 PM »
You live in Estonia and are not worried Andrew?

I agree that there was much bad information out there and the chances as a hetero male are much less than we were initially led to believe, but it is still an epidemic in Eastern Europe. HIV I am speaking of.

Do the numbers. I did.
The case is almost the same as for Hep B: avoid injecting druggies, prisoners and unprotected gay anal sex and the numbers speak for themselves. Factor in my age, the quantity and the age of most of my partners and several more risk factors are knocked out.

Anyway, if one were unfortunate enough to contract HIV, which is a bloody hard thing to do, then with modern treatment I'd have every expectation of living out my life in a healthy and full manner. Yes, if I were a USAian, that'd not be the case, but over here - is different, we have health care.

We have choices, we can live in fear or we can grow above fear.
Make rational choices supported by fact and be protected much better than using a condom with random partners. ;)

Yes, I am well informed on the HIV issue unfortunately. I live in one of the areas with the highest rates in the US and have several close friends that are positive. You are correct in that if you avoid the high risk groups the chance of infection for men is much less than what we were initially told.  People here in the US live about 15-20 years these days as long as they live a healthy life and take their cocktails. My wife is from the epicenter of the epidemic in Ukraine. Over there the expectancy is around two years due to lifestyle and lack of care or medicine. Less than that of Africa.

All it takes is that one time though....

Offline Mikeav8r

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Re: About Sexually Transmitted Diseases
« Reply #17 on: April 02, 2014, 10:04:01 PM »
You live in Estonia and are not worried Andrew?

I agree that there was much bad information out there and the chances as a hetero male are much less than we were initially led to believe, but it is still an epidemic in Eastern Europe. HIV I am speaking of.

Do the numbers. I did.
The case is almost the same as for Hep B: avoid injecting druggies, prisoners and unprotected gay anal sex and the numbers speak for themselves. Factor in my age, the quantity and the age of most of my partners and several more risk factors are knocked out.

Anyway, if one were unfortunate enough to contract HIV, which is a bloody hard thing to do, then with modern treatment I'd have every expectation of living out my life in a healthy and full manner. Yes, if I were a USAian, that'd not be the case, but over here - is different, we have health care.

We have choices, we can live in fear or we can grow above fear.
Make rational choices supported by fact and be protected much better than using a condom with random partners. ;)

We have health care.  Most Americans do and it happens to be some of, if not the, best health care (Doctors, equipment, technology and facilities and availability of all the above) on the planet.  Most in the same risk category as you (as you explained above) has access to hundreds of every type of doctor and hospital and specialist you can think of within a 10-20 minute drive in most medium to large cities.

We have 330 million citizens in the USA (+/-) and 30 million(9%) (now 22.9 supposedly) are not covered.  These are unemployed (7%), young adults in part time jobs, homeless, poor, etc., many of which are veterans who have access to free health care at any vet clinic or hospital.  We have issues, yes, but we (a majority) have health care.  It is not easy to provide for 330 million...all of these EU countries that you will probably compare have what for a population?  How many immigrants each year?  I would not want to be living anywhere else if diagnosed with a major illness than right here.  Can I say that 20 years from now with the ACA in full force?  Maybe not.  Quality will suffer as will availability.  But for now, here is where it's at.
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Offline GuppyCaptain

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Re: About Sexually Transmitted Diseases
« Reply #18 on: April 02, 2014, 10:52:18 PM »
There you go getting in the way of his America bashing again!

Offline GuppyCaptain

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Re: About Sexually Transmitted Diseases
« Reply #19 on: April 02, 2014, 10:54:00 PM »
Sasha, where is the epicenter of HIV/AIDS in Ukraine?

Offline Mikeav8r

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Re: About Sexually Transmitted Diseases
« Reply #20 on: April 02, 2014, 11:29:18 PM »
There you go getting in the way of his America bashing again!

If I took him too seriously, it would be a full time job.  Fortunately, I already have one and great health care  :)
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Online andrewfi

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Re: About Sexually Transmitted Diseases
« Reply #21 on: April 03, 2014, 01:24:49 AM »
In your country, the truth is that most of those at greatest risk of HIV infection don't have the coverage to get the care they need, for anything - let alone HIV.

Middle aged, middle class white guys are not a high risk group for HIV. But, yes, you got coverage. (how does the deductible work out for you though? And the limits on care?)

That knowledge informs one's choices.

If I were a USAian knowing that every time I needed treatment it was going to cost me significant money then I'd make different choices to those I can make when I know that not only do I have access to high quality medical care, free at the point of use, but also to low cost  private health care for those times I choose to press the hurry-up button.

As I noted above, having about making rational choices based upon good information.

While white, middle aged, middle class men might be confident that if they contract HIV that they will get treatment, less than half of the group most at risk in the US are getting antiretroviral treatment. That group is, as usual, blacks, in the US.
CDC targets for ART is about 80% which is about what is attained in Estonia.

By the way, it is reasonable to expect that a larger economy with a larger population should be able to better able to care for its population than a smaller one if only due to the ability to more efficiently utilise infrastructure and from economies of scale. US healthcare is a global tragedy.
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Offline sashathecat

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Re: About Sexually Transmitted Diseases
« Reply #22 on: April 03, 2014, 06:49:09 AM »
Sasha, where is the epicenter of HIV/AIDS in Ukraine?

The Southern regions such as Donetsk, Odessa, Dnepropetrovsk Oblasts, and Crimea. At one point it was thought there were around 170,000 cases in Odessa alone which is a city of around 1 million. They now think that number is more likely around 40k. Some years ago it was declared an epidemic in the FSU.

In your country, the truth is that most of those at greatest risk of HIV infection don't have the coverage to get the care they need, for anything - let alone HIV.

Here in Florida anyone can walk into a clinic and receive treatment at no charge or at a reduced cost even without insurance. There are numerous organizations involved. Some of the high risk groups here unfortunately lack the education or are scared of the stigma associated and do not get tested or treatment.

Online andrewfi

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Re: About Sexually Transmitted Diseases
« Reply #23 on: April 03, 2014, 08:47:58 AM »
Sasha, where is the epicenter of HIV/AIDS in Ukraine?

The Southern regions such as Donetsk, Odessa, Dnepropetrovsk Oblasts, and Crimea. At one point it was thought there were around 170,000 cases in Odessa alone which is a city of around 1 million. They now think that number is more likely around 40k. Some years ago it was declared an epidemic in the FSU.

In your country, the truth is that most of those at greatest risk of HIV infection don't have the coverage to get the care they need, for anything - let alone HIV.

Here in Florida anyone can walk into a clinic and receive treatment at no charge or at a reduced cost even without insurance. There are numerous organizations involved. Some of the high risk groups here unfortunately lack the education or are scared of the stigma associated and do not get tested or treatment.

Probably the same thing in Ukraine as happened in Estonia.
I have written about this before on this forum, but after independence, of course there were other things to worry about than HIV and, of course there were very, very few cases. Not quite as the Soviets said, but not far off. ;)

After a few years it becomes apparent that there is HIV.

Much panic and hand wringing ensues but no money to pay for everything - testing, education of healthcare professionals, drugs, hospital beds, outreach, the whole mish mash.
In Estonia (as in much of the FSU) UNAIDS, the EU and other actors came on the scene with a bunch of cash for increasing awareness among the health care folks, in part because the EU folks don't want all the whores in the country giving HIV to every sex tourist that pops along. Don't believe me, read some newspaper archives from Finnish and Swedish newspapers from the early noughties and you will get the picture in respect of Estonia and other nearby places.

Once the stick had been well and truly poked into the hole UNAIDS comes along to conduct a survey into the prevalence and spread of HIV among the population. They come up with truly scary numbers.
Then a sensible bloke, a friend as it happens, in Estonia looked at the numbers. At the time he was in charge of marketing/PR for the Tallinn blood transfusion service and, like myself, had studied a little bit of stats and math at university.

Here's what he found:
The UNAIDS study was a very simple model. They counted the number of reported cases and where the trend was upward they extrapolated it, using their own formula which looks pretty much like a straight line to us normal folks. :(

But guess what, they surveyed over the period in which the health service was busy flushing out all the cases of HIV that they could find. So, the UNAIDS numbers were a reflection of a one off bump in numbers due to the new diagnoses of existing cases.
This was confirmed by transfusion service numbers. They test all the blood that enters the system. This means that they have the largest tested population in the country (same applies I guess in almost every country). The rate of infection of their sample (which, to be fair excluded the prison population and almost certainly underrepresented injecting drug users) was pretty much unchanged over this period, supporting the hypothesis that the real rate of increase was much, much lower than estimated and thus the number of cases was much, much lower than estimated and the projected numbers, the really scary bit were a fiction.

Now, after some ten years, we can look back at the figures, we can now see the anomaly for what it was, but nobody points the finger at UNAIDS because those nice guys got Estonia millions of Euros of free hospital resources. If the same, or something similar was not the case in Ukraine I'll eat my hat because they had UNAIDS in, they had EU money. And, then lets not even go to the false positives situation in Russia except to say that it was easier to get money for HIV than for TB.

Sashathecat, I think that you may be a tad overoptimistic about the free treatment stuff in the wonderful state of Florida. ;)
A few minutes and Google tells me that there are substantial waiting lists for the Ryan White Care Act provisions in Florida, that is a program to enable people to continue under their private health care insurance.
Nationally:
Quote
According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, around half the people diagnosed with HIV in the U.S. don't receive regular health care. Of those who do, 42 percent receive Medicaid and 24 percent are uninsured.

Those numbers tell us that across the country half of all sufferers are not getting treatment, 12% are paying for their own care and insurance is covering only about 18% of HIV care. Florida will not be much different to that.

This Floridian would be, I think, happy to be living in the version of Florida in which you live. ;)

In Estonia, around 80% of all sufferers are getting care and treatment with almost all costs paid by the state. The only adults who'd NOT be eligible for free (or almost free) care are those who are not registered either in employment or registered unemployed. That's about 6% of the population. However, even those folks would get some level of care if they asked for it and as soon as they register as unemployed, their care is sorted.
The payments to be made, where required, are very small, IIRC a doctors visit costs about €3.
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Offline Herry

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Re: About Sexually Transmitted Diseases
« Reply #24 on: April 03, 2014, 11:00:00 AM »
Good topic, actually, and a tough question to answer.

What does it mean by 'starting a relationship'? When a woman goes to bed with a new man for a first time, would that be a relationship start?

In theory, I think, a person could contract a STD when he or she first becomes intimate with a person, even if this time is his or her first time at all (losing virginity) or this is a first contact after several years of celibacy. One can have just one intercourse in her whole life, and this single intercourse could have brought her a STD:evilgrin0002:

Which is a good reason to ask the male to use a condom, until you have enough time with that partner to trust that they want to be exclusive with you, and to know that they do not have any STD's.
Not ask the male to use condom but  simply put  condom on his penis without asking when was his last sexual intercourse. And never forget doing, at least for six months, then both partners should check themself for STD and HIV, after getting the result you can deside if you crazy enough to trust. :smokin:
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Online andrewfi

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Re: About Sexually Transmitted Diseases
« Reply #25 on: April 03, 2014, 11:37:36 AM »
Not ask the male to use condom but  simply put  condom on his penis without asking when was his last sexual intercourse. And never forget doing, at least for six months, then both partners should check themself for STD and HIV, after getting the result you can deside if you crazy enough to trust. :smokin:

Seems to me to be an absolutely sensible way to proceed!
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Offline Anteros

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Re: About Sexually Transmitted Diseases
« Reply #26 on: April 03, 2014, 12:47:53 PM »
Good topic, actually, and a tough question to answer.

What does it mean by 'starting a relationship'? When a woman goes to bed with a new man for a first time, would that be a relationship start?

In theory, I think, a person could contract a STD when he or she first becomes intimate with a person, even if this time is his or her first time at all (losing virginity) or this is a first contact after several years of celibacy. One can have just one intercourse in her whole life, and this single intercourse could have brought her a STD:evilgrin0002:

Which is a good reason to ask the male to use a condom, until you have enough time with that partner to trust that they want to be exclusive with you, and to know that they do not have any STD's.
Not ask the male to use condom but  simply put  condom on his penis without asking when was his last sexual intercourse. And never forget doing, at least for six months, then both partners should check themself for STD and HIV, after getting the result you can deside if you crazy enough to trust. :smokin:

Great post, thank you.
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Offline Mikeav8r

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Re: About Sexually Transmitted Diseases
« Reply #27 on: April 03, 2014, 03:47:41 PM »
In your country, the truth is that most of those at greatest risk of HIV infection don't have the coverage to get the care they need, for anything - let alone HIV.

Middle aged, middle class white guys are not a high risk group for HIV. But, yes, you got coverage. (how does the deductible work out for you though? And the limits on care?)

That knowledge informs one's choices.

If I were a USAian knowing that every time I needed treatment it was going to cost me significant money then I'd make different choices to those I can make when I know that not only do I have access to high quality medical care, free at the point of use, but also to low cost  private health care for those times I choose to press the hurry-up button.

As I noted above, having about making rational choices based upon good information.

While white, middle aged, middle class men might be confident that if they contract HIV that they will get treatment, less than half of the group most at risk in the US are getting antiretroviral treatment. That group is, as usual, blacks, in the US.
CDC targets for ART is about 80% which is about what is attained in Estonia.

By the way, it is reasonable to expect that a larger economy with a larger population should be able to better able to care for its population than a smaller one if only due to the ability to more efficiently utilise infrastructure and from economies of scale. US healthcare is a global tragedy.

You made a reference to your situation so that is why I made the comparison the way I did.

I can't speak for anyone else in the USA, but my particular plan, which got slightly worse after the ACA was passed, has a $2000.00 deductible (used to be 1000.00) which is payable at 10% of each office visit cost.  For example, if I go to the doctor for some ailment and the total visit is $200.00 (exam, equipment, etc.), I would pay $20.00 and that would be applied to my deductible.  If I am given a prescription for drugs, I would pay a percentage of that as well (my last one was $2.35 for an $80.00 bottle)  My limit is $2,000,000.00 which I don't think I could ever hit even with nasty cancer treatments for a few years (and yes I know what that costs).  My wife had a bill of ~$400,000.00 for 2 years of cancer treatment and surgeries and I paid a total of $200.00 out of pocket on another plan at a different company.  That covered everything.

So, each time we need treatment, the cost is not significant. Even when I was unemployed for a period of time a few years back, I was able to get treated for broken arm I received in a football match for free at a VA clinic.  I also found a free dentist for a tooth issue (even though they did not initially want to treat me because I was not Hispanic  (:)).  So free or very low cost treatment is available if people want it and look for it.

One would think it may be reasonable to assume the largest economy in the world could cover everyone, but with all the money we spend on everything else and everyone else in the world, we simply can't afford it.  If they could get costs under control, (drugs, procedures, crazy lawsuits, malpractice insurance, medical salaries, etc.) it may be doable.

US healthcare is hardly a global tragedy  :chuckle:

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Offline Mikeav8r

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Re: About Sexually Transmitted Diseases
« Reply #28 on: April 03, 2014, 03:59:55 PM »
Not ask the male to use condom but  simply put  condom on his penis without asking when was his last sexual intercourse. And never forget doing, at least for six months, then both partners should check themself for STD and HIV, after getting the result you can deside if you crazy enough to trust. :smokin:

Seems to me to be an absolutely sensible way to proceed!

I said: "If true, that is a staggering statistic.  I would hope that mature and responsible adults, that are sexually active, would practice safe sex and test regularly and insist their partners do the same in order to avoid becoming a stat. "

So when a woman suggests it, it is sensible but when I and another suggested the above in another thread (http://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php?topic=7172.195) you said:

" Dunno what kind of women you folks meet but maybe, just maybe, one day I will meet a woman with whom an ongoing relationship is on the cards where she does not insist on a checkup or knowledge of a recent one.

Colour me surprised that you guys are meeting women for whom this is a matter of indifference. What does that tell us? What might one infer?"

Have you had a change of heart and come to your senses regarding testing?  I hope so for your sake.  No one is safe.  tiphat
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Offline Manny

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Re: About Sexually Transmitted Diseases
« Reply #29 on: April 03, 2014, 04:05:00 PM »
My experiences of American healthcare were dire; approaching third world and treated like a dog. Until, they got the fax from a London insurance company saying they would pay. At that point, it became world class. Couldn't fault a thing after that.

The whole insurance thing seems really complicated there and quality of care seems very dependent on income. If you are poor you can die in the gutter is how Brits think of America. When we go there we have to load up on a bunch of insurances. Which as a visitor is probably right (visitors should not burden the American taxpayer), but as a resident citizen one expects a safety net in a civilised society to catch the poor and unfortunate.

I prefer our system where it is funded from general taxation and on the whole, works quite well. You can upgrade aspects of it if you happen to have additional insurance or money, but the standard system works fine for most people.

My Dad had a stent fitted to his heart last year. Great job they did, he is fit as a flea again now, and the cost to him was £0. What would that cost if he had to pay? £5000? He is lucky in that if he needed to pay he could, but not everyone can. What if he was a poor bloke in America that didn't have £5k? Would he die waiting? I'm not sure. Maybe an American can clue me in.
please tell me where I'm being / have been 'dishonest'? 
Yes, he said that.........