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Author Topic: About Sexually Transmitted Diseases  (Read 17655 times)

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Online andrewfi

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About Sexually Transmitted Diseases
« on: April 01, 2014, 02:04:26 PM »
Ladies, as I am sure you all know STDs (sexually transmitted diseases) are common everywhere. Most can be cured but some such as HIV, genital warts, cold sores etc can not be cured but are often invisible.

Given that even condoms are not a perfect preventative for the virus that causes genital warts or cold sores, at what point in a relationship would you have a discussion about whether either you or your man was a carrier? At what point would you get tested for these afflictions?

If your man told you that he was a carrier of a viral STD that was incurable such as genital warts, HIV or cold sores what would your reaction be? Would you break up with him? Would you take a chance that you'd not be infected?

What you expect of your man if you told him that you were a carrier of such an infection? Should he understand that these things are commonplace and accept you as you are?

In Estonia we tend to get checks for these things pretty often although most women, particularly of reproductive age, seem more concerned about chlamydia than HS-1 or HS-2. How does it go in Russia or Ukraine?
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Online andrewfi

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Re: About Sexually Transmitted Diseases
« Reply #1 on: April 01, 2014, 05:06:10 PM »
So ladies, about STDs...
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Offline Orchid

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Re: About Sexually Transmitted Diseases
« Reply #2 on: April 01, 2014, 05:55:05 PM »
Ladies, as I am sure you all know STDs (sexually transmitted diseases) are common everywhere. Most can be cured but some such as HIV, genital warts, cold sores etc can not be cured but are often invisible.

Given that even condoms are not a perfect preventative for the virus that causes genital warts or cold sores, at what point in a relationship would you have a discussion about whether either you or your man was a carrier? At what point would you get tested for these afflictions?

If your man told you that he was a carrier of a viral STD that was incurable such as genital warts, HIV or cold sores what would your reaction be? Would you break up with him? Would you take a chance that you'd not be infected?

What you expect of your man if you told him that you were a carrier of such an infection? Should he understand that these things are commonplace and accept you as you are?

In Estonia we tend to get checks for these things pretty often although most women, particularly of reproductive age, seem more concerned about chlamydia than HS-1 or HS-2. How does it go in Russia or Ukraine?

You have asked several very important questions.
I will try to answer only couple of them.

“How does it go in Russia?”
In Russia, there is a law when any person who contacts with food (for example sell at grocery store or cook at restaurant) must be checked for STD twice a year. It applies as well for everyone working in medicine, sport, with children… They have a book with records (санитарная книжка) and government can request it at any time. I think it helps control STD in a country.
There is nothing like this in the USA. Person with syphilis can serve at bar, and surgeon with Hep C can do surgery. Nobody cares.

“If your man told you that he was a carrier of a viral STD that was incurable such as genital warts, HIV or cold sores what would your reaction be? Would you break up with him? Would you take a chance that you'd not be infected?”

First of all, there is no any chance not to be infected because there is no effective protection in the world at this time, except own immune system.
If man that I love would have incurable viral STD it would not prevent me to be with him.
I would realize that there would be always three of us: me, him and incurable STD.
But it could be incurable cancer, cardiac problem, or mental disorder as well.


Online andrewfi

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Re: About Sexually Transmitted Diseases
« Reply #3 on: April 02, 2014, 01:56:09 AM »
Thanks, I didn't know about the 'sanitary book' thing. It seems like a good idea.

As for your second point, I understand and agree entirely with your perspective. After all, over half of us carry HS1 or HS2, often without knowing it. That said, I think there is a difference between, for example cancer and STD's. At least at the start of a relationship. I might choose to not get involved with a person I knew to be dying of cancer, or who I knew to be mentally ill. Chances are that I'd not do so in respect of an STD, especially given the prevalence of them. However, if I were in a relationship then I can't imagine rejecting a person because they become ill.

Do you and your friends/peers get STD checks when you start relationships?
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Offline sashathecat

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Re: About Sexually Transmitted Diseases
« Reply #4 on: April 02, 2014, 02:04:40 AM »
Do you and your friends/peers get STD checks when you start relationships?

Last time I checked I was not a lady but my wife asked me to have thorough bloodwork done when we became serious. She said it is something that is commonly done in Ukraine when you begin a relationship with a new partner. It is a smart and responsible thing to do.

Offline rosco

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Re: About Sexually Transmitted Diseases
« Reply #5 on: April 02, 2014, 04:43:06 AM »
Same here. After we got serious, we both decided to get the full MOT so we could relax in our relationship. Lets face it....the rubber man isn't one for championing passion.  :innocent:

Offline Orchid

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Re: About Sexually Transmitted Diseases
« Reply #6 on: April 02, 2014, 09:18:54 AM »

Do you and your friends/peers get STD checks when you start relationships?

We met each other in person. So, there was no cooling down Internet period.
We were in love. I did not think long.
We jumped in bed and had sex even without a condom. I hate them.
I know! I know! It’s stupid.
Gosh............... It was soooo gooooooooood!
But when I moved to the US to marry him, first thing I went to clinic and had all blood work for STD done just to establish the base line.
I like to be very convincing during hard talk.

Online andrewfi

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Re: About Sexually Transmitted Diseases
« Reply #7 on: April 02, 2014, 10:23:48 AM »
We have all been there.

Once I got over the AIDS/HIV propaganda a few years ago I took a much more enlightened view of these matters.

There's not much that can't be cured and that which can't be cured is not reliably prevented by condoms. Regular testing seems to be the sensible way to go. That noted, when I started forming relationships here in Estonia I was at first surprised by the alacrity with which people trotted off to get checked out. I had not come across this degree of rigour when living in the UK or Finland and it never came up in Russia.
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Offline rosco

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Re: About Sexually Transmitted Diseases
« Reply #8 on: April 02, 2014, 01:39:52 PM »
Well times have changed Andy.

The clinics now a drop in and at least for folks my age, the stigma attached to a gum clinic has softened. It's now the smart thing to do.

Offline BelleZeBoob

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Re: About Sexually Transmitted Diseases
« Reply #9 on: April 02, 2014, 02:54:10 PM »
Good topic, actually, and a tough question to answer.

What does it mean by 'starting a relationship'? When a woman goes to bed with a new man for a first time, would that be a relationship start?

In theory, I think, a person could contract a STD when he or she first becomes intimate with a person, even if this time is his or her first time at all (losing virginity) or this is a first contact after several years of celibacy. One can have just one intercourse in her whole life, and this single intercourse could have brought her a STD.  :evilgrin0002:
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Offline Anteros

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Re: About Sexually Transmitted Diseases
« Reply #10 on: April 02, 2014, 03:00:43 PM »
Good topic, actually, and a tough question to answer.

What does it mean by 'starting a relationship'? When a woman goes to bed with a new man for a first time, would that be a relationship start?

In theory, I think, a person could contract a STD when he or she first becomes intimate with a person, even if this time is his or her first time at all (losing virginity) or this is a first contact after several years of celibacy. One can have just one intercourse in her whole life, and this single intercourse could have brought her a STD:evilgrin0002:

Which is a good reason to ask the male to use a condom, until you have enough time with that partner to trust that they want to be exclusive with you, and to know that they do not have any STD's.
Be careful what you wish for, you might get it.

Offline NS1

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Re: About Sexually Transmitted Diseases
« Reply #11 on: April 02, 2014, 03:13:59 PM »
I have been getting regular check ups, for 5 years or so now, Funny when I went to Ukraine, I thought, hmmm
how to I bring this up language and all, I was surprised also, the regular checkups are the norm and no offence
when asking, When lady even brought out the paper work. Now Past that and I hope for ever.
But I wish here was of the same mind, makes so much sense to do and talk about.
Surprised how many feel the subject taboo.

I have been with someone who got sick, but never in a position for the other, not 100% sure
how I would react, Like to think If I was serious, I would continue with care, I think easy to say
until put in this place, no is 100% sure of what they would do.
There is nothing permanent except change.

Offline Anteros

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Re: About Sexually Transmitted Diseases
« Reply #12 on: April 02, 2014, 03:15:55 PM »
I have been getting regular check ups, for 5 years or so now, Funny when I went to Ukraine, I thought, hmmm
how to I bring this up language and all, I was surprised also, the regular checkups are the norm and no offence
when asking, When lady even brought out the paper work. Now Past that and I hope for ever.
But I wish here was of the same mind, makes so much sense to do and talk about.
Surprised how many feel the subject taboo.

I have been with someone who got sick, but never in a position for the other, not 100% sure
how I would react, Like to think If I was serious, I would continue with care, I think easy to say
until put in this place, no is 100% sure of what they would do.

If a prospective partner feels offended by asking, that would be a huge red flag for me.
Be careful what you wish for, you might get it.

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Re: About Sexually Transmitted Diseases
« Reply #13 on: April 02, 2014, 03:57:19 PM »
If one knows that one is carrying no infections, at least knowledge within reasonable limits, then it seems to me that there is not too much to worry about. If a partner wants me to wear a condom then there is no argument, no discussion. Otherwise, I am not too worried apart from turning into a late blooming daddy that is.

When one has made a choice that a person is 'part of one's life' then it makes sense for an STD test to be done. I have had times when we played Snap with test result forms though. ;)

The thing is that HIV is not the worry that my generation were taught it was. Half of everybody is wandering around carrying Herpes and HPV, most without ever knowing it and a condom is not much help with those little buggers anyway. That means one's checkups are kinda like an inspection service on one's car. Get checked out, any problems sort it out. Chlamydia is the main concern for practical reasons but, it is curable.

The only joker in the pack is Hepatitis B. However, in the UK, for example, about 1 in 350 have persistent Hep B. 90% of people who get infected clear up and develop immunity. Of those who are persistently infected 70% are asymptomatic. Unless one is shagging intravenous druggies, convicts or the educationally sub normal one is not at great risk. (the prevalence does vary across the globe though) In my schema, I include it in the list of 'curables' because, well, in practical terms, it usually is.
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Offline sashathecat

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Re: About Sexually Transmitted Diseases
« Reply #14 on: April 02, 2014, 04:11:13 PM »
You live in Estonia and are not worried Andrew?

I agree that there was much bad information out there and the chances as a hetero male are much less than we were initially led to believe, but it is still an epidemic in Eastern Europe. HIV I am speaking of.

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Re: About Sexually Transmitted Diseases
« Reply #15 on: April 02, 2014, 04:29:12 PM »
You live in Estonia and are not worried Andrew?

I agree that there was much bad information out there and the chances as a hetero male are much less than we were initially led to believe, but it is still an epidemic in Eastern Europe. HIV I am speaking of.

Do the numbers. I did.
The case is almost the same as for Hep B: avoid injecting druggies, prisoners and unprotected gay anal sex and the numbers speak for themselves. Factor in my age, the quantity and the age of most of my partners and several more risk factors are knocked out.

Anyway, if one were unfortunate enough to contract HIV, which is a bloody hard thing to do, then with modern treatment I'd have every expectation of living out my life in a healthy and full manner. Yes, if I were a USAian, that'd not be the case, but over here - is different, we have health care.

We have choices, we can live in fear or we can grow above fear.
Make rational choices supported by fact and be protected much better than using a condom with random partners. ;)
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Offline sashathecat

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Re: About Sexually Transmitted Diseases
« Reply #16 on: April 02, 2014, 06:06:53 PM »
You live in Estonia and are not worried Andrew?

I agree that there was much bad information out there and the chances as a hetero male are much less than we were initially led to believe, but it is still an epidemic in Eastern Europe. HIV I am speaking of.

Do the numbers. I did.
The case is almost the same as for Hep B: avoid injecting druggies, prisoners and unprotected gay anal sex and the numbers speak for themselves. Factor in my age, the quantity and the age of most of my partners and several more risk factors are knocked out.

Anyway, if one were unfortunate enough to contract HIV, which is a bloody hard thing to do, then with modern treatment I'd have every expectation of living out my life in a healthy and full manner. Yes, if I were a USAian, that'd not be the case, but over here - is different, we have health care.

We have choices, we can live in fear or we can grow above fear.
Make rational choices supported by fact and be protected much better than using a condom with random partners. ;)

Yes, I am well informed on the HIV issue unfortunately. I live in one of the areas with the highest rates in the US and have several close friends that are positive. You are correct in that if you avoid the high risk groups the chance of infection for men is much less than what we were initially told.  People here in the US live about 15-20 years these days as long as they live a healthy life and take their cocktails. My wife is from the epicenter of the epidemic in Ukraine. Over there the expectancy is around two years due to lifestyle and lack of care or medicine. Less than that of Africa.

All it takes is that one time though....

Offline Mikeav8r

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Re: About Sexually Transmitted Diseases
« Reply #17 on: April 02, 2014, 10:04:01 PM »
You live in Estonia and are not worried Andrew?

I agree that there was much bad information out there and the chances as a hetero male are much less than we were initially led to believe, but it is still an epidemic in Eastern Europe. HIV I am speaking of.

Do the numbers. I did.
The case is almost the same as for Hep B: avoid injecting druggies, prisoners and unprotected gay anal sex and the numbers speak for themselves. Factor in my age, the quantity and the age of most of my partners and several more risk factors are knocked out.

Anyway, if one were unfortunate enough to contract HIV, which is a bloody hard thing to do, then with modern treatment I'd have every expectation of living out my life in a healthy and full manner. Yes, if I were a USAian, that'd not be the case, but over here - is different, we have health care.

We have choices, we can live in fear or we can grow above fear.
Make rational choices supported by fact and be protected much better than using a condom with random partners. ;)

We have health care.  Most Americans do and it happens to be some of, if not the, best health care (Doctors, equipment, technology and facilities and availability of all the above) on the planet.  Most in the same risk category as you (as you explained above) has access to hundreds of every type of doctor and hospital and specialist you can think of within a 10-20 minute drive in most medium to large cities.

We have 330 million citizens in the USA (+/-) and 30 million(9%) (now 22.9 supposedly) are not covered.  These are unemployed (7%), young adults in part time jobs, homeless, poor, etc., many of which are veterans who have access to free health care at any vet clinic or hospital.  We have issues, yes, but we (a majority) have health care.  It is not easy to provide for 330 million...all of these EU countries that you will probably compare have what for a population?  How many immigrants each year?  I would not want to be living anywhere else if diagnosed with a major illness than right here.  Can I say that 20 years from now with the ACA in full force?  Maybe not.  Quality will suffer as will availability.  But for now, here is where it's at.
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Offline GuppyCaptain

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Re: About Sexually Transmitted Diseases
« Reply #18 on: April 02, 2014, 10:52:18 PM »
There you go getting in the way of his America bashing again!

Offline GuppyCaptain

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Re: About Sexually Transmitted Diseases
« Reply #19 on: April 02, 2014, 10:54:00 PM »
Sasha, where is the epicenter of HIV/AIDS in Ukraine?

Offline Mikeav8r

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Re: About Sexually Transmitted Diseases
« Reply #20 on: April 02, 2014, 11:29:18 PM »
There you go getting in the way of his America bashing again!

If I took him too seriously, it would be a full time job.  Fortunately, I already have one and great health care  :)
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Online andrewfi

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Re: About Sexually Transmitted Diseases
« Reply #21 on: April 03, 2014, 01:24:49 AM »
In your country, the truth is that most of those at greatest risk of HIV infection don't have the coverage to get the care they need, for anything - let alone HIV.

Middle aged, middle class white guys are not a high risk group for HIV. But, yes, you got coverage. (how does the deductible work out for you though? And the limits on care?)

That knowledge informs one's choices.

If I were a USAian knowing that every time I needed treatment it was going to cost me significant money then I'd make different choices to those I can make when I know that not only do I have access to high quality medical care, free at the point of use, but also to low cost  private health care for those times I choose to press the hurry-up button.

As I noted above, having about making rational choices based upon good information.

While white, middle aged, middle class men might be confident that if they contract HIV that they will get treatment, less than half of the group most at risk in the US are getting antiretroviral treatment. That group is, as usual, blacks, in the US.
CDC targets for ART is about 80% which is about what is attained in Estonia.

By the way, it is reasonable to expect that a larger economy with a larger population should be able to better able to care for its population than a smaller one if only due to the ability to more efficiently utilise infrastructure and from economies of scale. US healthcare is a global tragedy.
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Offline sashathecat

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Re: About Sexually Transmitted Diseases
« Reply #22 on: April 03, 2014, 06:49:09 AM »
Sasha, where is the epicenter of HIV/AIDS in Ukraine?

The Southern regions such as Donetsk, Odessa, Dnepropetrovsk Oblasts, and Crimea. At one point it was thought there were around 170,000 cases in Odessa alone which is a city of around 1 million. They now think that number is more likely around 40k. Some years ago it was declared an epidemic in the FSU.

In your country, the truth is that most of those at greatest risk of HIV infection don't have the coverage to get the care they need, for anything - let alone HIV.

Here in Florida anyone can walk into a clinic and receive treatment at no charge or at a reduced cost even without insurance. There are numerous organizations involved. Some of the high risk groups here unfortunately lack the education or are scared of the stigma associated and do not get tested or treatment.

Online andrewfi

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Re: About Sexually Transmitted Diseases
« Reply #23 on: April 03, 2014, 08:47:58 AM »
Sasha, where is the epicenter of HIV/AIDS in Ukraine?

The Southern regions such as Donetsk, Odessa, Dnepropetrovsk Oblasts, and Crimea. At one point it was thought there were around 170,000 cases in Odessa alone which is a city of around 1 million. They now think that number is more likely around 40k. Some years ago it was declared an epidemic in the FSU.

In your country, the truth is that most of those at greatest risk of HIV infection don't have the coverage to get the care they need, for anything - let alone HIV.

Here in Florida anyone can walk into a clinic and receive treatment at no charge or at a reduced cost even without insurance. There are numerous organizations involved. Some of the high risk groups here unfortunately lack the education or are scared of the stigma associated and do not get tested or treatment.

Probably the same thing in Ukraine as happened in Estonia.
I have written about this before on this forum, but after independence, of course there were other things to worry about than HIV and, of course there were very, very few cases. Not quite as the Soviets said, but not far off. ;)

After a few years it becomes apparent that there is HIV.

Much panic and hand wringing ensues but no money to pay for everything - testing, education of healthcare professionals, drugs, hospital beds, outreach, the whole mish mash.
In Estonia (as in much of the FSU) UNAIDS, the EU and other actors came on the scene with a bunch of cash for increasing awareness among the health care folks, in part because the EU folks don't want all the whores in the country giving HIV to every sex tourist that pops along. Don't believe me, read some newspaper archives from Finnish and Swedish newspapers from the early noughties and you will get the picture in respect of Estonia and other nearby places.

Once the stick had been well and truly poked into the hole UNAIDS comes along to conduct a survey into the prevalence and spread of HIV among the population. They come up with truly scary numbers.
Then a sensible bloke, a friend as it happens, in Estonia looked at the numbers. At the time he was in charge of marketing/PR for the Tallinn blood transfusion service and, like myself, had studied a little bit of stats and math at university.

Here's what he found:
The UNAIDS study was a very simple model. They counted the number of reported cases and where the trend was upward they extrapolated it, using their own formula which looks pretty much like a straight line to us normal folks. :(

But guess what, they surveyed over the period in which the health service was busy flushing out all the cases of HIV that they could find. So, the UNAIDS numbers were a reflection of a one off bump in numbers due to the new diagnoses of existing cases.
This was confirmed by transfusion service numbers. They test all the blood that enters the system. This means that they have the largest tested population in the country (same applies I guess in almost every country). The rate of infection of their sample (which, to be fair excluded the prison population and almost certainly underrepresented injecting drug users) was pretty much unchanged over this period, supporting the hypothesis that the real rate of increase was much, much lower than estimated and thus the number of cases was much, much lower than estimated and the projected numbers, the really scary bit were a fiction.

Now, after some ten years, we can look back at the figures, we can now see the anomaly for what it was, but nobody points the finger at UNAIDS because those nice guys got Estonia millions of Euros of free hospital resources. If the same, or something similar was not the case in Ukraine I'll eat my hat because they had UNAIDS in, they had EU money. And, then lets not even go to the false positives situation in Russia except to say that it was easier to get money for HIV than for TB.

Sashathecat, I think that you may be a tad overoptimistic about the free treatment stuff in the wonderful state of Florida. ;)
A few minutes and Google tells me that there are substantial waiting lists for the Ryan White Care Act provisions in Florida, that is a program to enable people to continue under their private health care insurance.
Nationally:
Quote
According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, around half the people diagnosed with HIV in the U.S. don't receive regular health care. Of those who do, 42 percent receive Medicaid and 24 percent are uninsured.

Those numbers tell us that across the country half of all sufferers are not getting treatment, 12% are paying for their own care and insurance is covering only about 18% of HIV care. Florida will not be much different to that.

This Floridian would be, I think, happy to be living in the version of Florida in which you live. ;)

In Estonia, around 80% of all sufferers are getting care and treatment with almost all costs paid by the state. The only adults who'd NOT be eligible for free (or almost free) care are those who are not registered either in employment or registered unemployed. That's about 6% of the population. However, even those folks would get some level of care if they asked for it and as soon as they register as unemployed, their care is sorted.
The payments to be made, where required, are very small, IIRC a doctors visit costs about €3.
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Offline Herry

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Re: About Sexually Transmitted Diseases
« Reply #24 on: April 03, 2014, 11:00:00 AM »
Good topic, actually, and a tough question to answer.

What does it mean by 'starting a relationship'? When a woman goes to bed with a new man for a first time, would that be a relationship start?

In theory, I think, a person could contract a STD when he or she first becomes intimate with a person, even if this time is his or her first time at all (losing virginity) or this is a first contact after several years of celibacy. One can have just one intercourse in her whole life, and this single intercourse could have brought her a STD:evilgrin0002:

Which is a good reason to ask the male to use a condom, until you have enough time with that partner to trust that they want to be exclusive with you, and to know that they do not have any STD's.
Not ask the male to use condom but  simply put  condom on his penis without asking when was his last sexual intercourse. And never forget doing, at least for six months, then both partners should check themself for STD and HIV, after getting the result you can deside if you crazy enough to trust. :smokin:
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