The BBC Debate

[Dogsoldier]

The BBC isn't state funded.

It is funded by a TV tax imposed by law on the people. That, whilst not direct state funding, is state mandated funding by extortion of the people.

Americans that cannot beleive such a thing can exist can read more here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BBC#Revenue

So is your council tax. You going to stop paying that too?

On the whole, I think the BBC delivers a pretty good service and it's content is ad free. That by itself is one heck of a plus. Yes, it has issues with a slight left leaning bias on some programmes but by and large it's reporting is objective.
Like many large organisations it has issues around renumeration and spending.

[andrewfi]

While I am not as anti to the BBC as Manny is one thing is true. Over the past 20 years or so the BBC has changed. At one time I would be happy to take comment and analysis by the BBC as being neutral and reliable. I no longer am so sanguine about doing so. They are not a bunch of shysters but my impression is that they are more likely to toe the official line than they would at one time have been.

There are times when I absolutely expect that pretty much any news outlet, in any country, will end up self censoring or being censored. The BBC IMHO does or is so more than used to be the case.

[Manny]

So is your council tax. You going to stop paying that too?

Well, I have my views on that too. But that is a necessary thing overall that pays for local services like fire departments and police, so not really the same as the BBC old chap.

On the whole, I think the BBC delivers a pretty good service and it's content is ad free. That by itself is one heck of a plus.

I'll agree with that mostly. Although stuff like the Irish channel and the obscure Asian and other "inclusive" channels that make a loss should be cut.

Yes, it has issues with a slight left leaning bias on some programmes but by and large it's reporting is objective.

Slight? 

If you accept global warming, that our Range Rovers are killing the polar bears, that all schools should teach Urdu, that mass immigration is a good thing, that any minority whatsoever should be "included" whatever the cost and a whole heap of other fuzzy thinking leftist tripe, then you may say slight.

I think most people know the BBC is now a very left leaning organisation. The danger lies when people who remember when it was relatively impartial trust its content to still be so.

Like many large organisations it has issues around remuneration and spending.

You mean it has to publish no proper accounts and no account for its ridiculous spending to anyone? Yes, we agree there.

I believe the TV licence should be a choice. I don't want to fund an organisation that covers up for paedophiles and holds itself unaccountable to the people who pay for it. Thankfully, there are several legal ways to circumvent the tax. I haven't paid it in years, and so many others haven't that they are now pushing through scrapping it.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tvandradio/bbc/10685761/BBC-report-proposes-scrapping-licence-fee.html

Over the past 20 years or so the BBC has changed. At one time I would be happy to take comment and analysis by the BBC as being neutral and reliable. I no longer am so sanguine about doing so. They are not a bunch of shysters but my impression is that they are more likely to toe the official line than they would at one time have been.

I agree.

There are times when I absolutely expect that pretty much any news outlet, in any country, will end up self censoring or being censored. The BBC IMHO does or is so more than used to be the case.

Agree again.

If any reading Brits want to know how to legally avoid the TV tax, with no hassle or door knockers, I'll put something together.

[Dogsoldier]

Well, I have my views on that too. But that is a necessary thing overall that pays for local services like fire departments and police, so not really the same as the BBC old chap.

I was merely illustrating that any kind of taxation, while unwelcome, is st times a necessary evil.

I'll agree with that mostly. Although stuff like the Irish channel and the obscure Asian and other "inclusive" channels that make a loss should be cut.

Aren't they chopping some channels like BBC3? Complete waste as far às I'm concerned.

If you accept global warming, that our Range Rovers are killing the polar bears, that all schools should teach Urdu, that mass immigration is a good thing, that any minority whatsoever should be "included" whatever the cost and a whole heap of other fuzzy thinking leftist tripe, then you may say slight.

Well, i think your pov swings to the extreme of centre. I don't think the BBC is alone here in propagating a leftist bent. Channel 4 is even more and that IIRC is also taxpayer funded.

You mean it has to publish no proper accounts and no account for its ridiculous spending to anyone?

The Bbc produces an annual report and accounts which are laid before parliament. My point was more about the pay offs to the top bosses.

I believe the TV licence should be a choice.

I agree.

[Vinnvinny]

An organisation as large and diverse as the BBC will never be perfect and will inevitably have its detractors.

Taking into account the at times extraordinarily high content of both its radio and television output, I believe that paying 39p a day to keep it commercial free is well worth the money and I’m happy to pay it.

Hopefully one day the technology will be available to prevent the likes of Manny and others freeloading on my dollar.

[Manny]

Vinny, the 39p a day* - if thats what it is - even applies to people who don't watch it or listen to it, but happen to have a TV. The state made it law and now anyone who doesn't pay it is a criminal? This is a TV Channel. To not pay for it is criminal?

There is no opt out.

The tax is collected by "officers" (who are nothing of the sort) under false threat of "entering your home" (which they absolutely do not have the right to do without a court order).

A few years ago I didn't pay mine on time and I got a "We know who you are, and we are coming to find you. A big man will soon knock on your door" letter through the door. And I thought,  you!

Then some bloke knocked on my door, tried to tell me he was an "officer", waved an ID card at me, and started demanding details of occupants, asked to enter the house, and wanting me to sign a statement.

I offered him the choice between walking away under his own steam or being ejected by force as a trespasser. He chose to walk away.

This is for a TV Channel. 

After that, I researched the legalities of it all, the "implied right of access" laws, and soon after I put a legal notice in the porch. That made every double glazing salesman melt away too. Now the BBC send me apologetic letters. We pay £0. As it should be.

Soon we will have electric gates at home, so government funded goons and other miscreants will stand in the street, in the rain, pressing a buzzer, to get an answer in Russian. 

* 39p a day sounds like nothing, but it is £145 ($240) a year. I like the BBC's output, and I may even be inclined to pay more for what they offer under subscription. But try to force me? Send me silly threatening letters? Have goons thumping on my door? Well, then you get £0.

[Donhollio]

 Well Vinny I'd like to say thanks for paying. I've enjoyed the BBC over the years, especially the nature documentaries. David Attenborough has done a stellar job over the past 6 decades!  I realize my cable provider pays for the airing of the shows here in Canada, but it's the tax payers in UK that get the video rolling.

 Just wondering Manny, do you boycott any BBC programming in your home?

[msmoby]

Over the past 20 years or so the BBC has changed. At one time I would be happy to take comment and analysis by the BBC as being neutral and reliable. .. but my impression is that they are more likely to toe the official line than they would at one time have been.

There are times when I absolutely expect that pretty much any news outlet, in any country, will end up self censoring or being censored. The BBC IMHO does or is so more than used to be the case.

Mr andrewfi, I apologise to the other members for seemingly singling you out.

Once again, you are posting an opinion that does not stand up to scrutiny:

1) what is the 'official line' that BBC journalists must toe ?  Do you know any well known BBC / ITV / ITN journos ? 

2) The BBC has traditionally been criticised for being too left leaning, so what has changed? Where you one of the 4500 who complained the coverage of the Queen's Golden Jubilee celebration was too informal ?

As for Mr Manny, I'm sure he is relieved that non-payment of the TV licence may no longer be a criminal act.

[Vinnvinny]

The honest majority in Britain are gradually being marginalised and the pound in our pocket is coming under ever increasing attack from freeloaders.

We pay more tax than we need to because of social security fraud and benefit cheats.

Our car insurance is higher because of organised fake accidents and claims.

Our licence fee is inflated to account for those who benefit from the service but except me and my kind to fund it.

The list is endless.

Come the revolution of honest John ....

[Chris]

I may even be inclined to pay more for what they offer under subscription. But try to force me? Send me silly threatening letters? Have goons thumping on my door? Well, then you get £0.

It's an obligation to pay, if you watch live UK TV - there is no opt-out option.  Are you a freeloader, Sir ?

Its an obligation to pay if you watch UK TV and I am happy to pay it, whatever you think of the BBC they make some fantastic programmes, documentaries, dramas, period dramas, national history programmes etc etc,  many better than you will find anywhere, I appreciate that and will gladly pay for it.

[Manny]

If they lie so blatantly about things I personally know about, how can I trust them to be good on things I do not know about.

Same with the BBC, although Moby will have you believe it is the bastion of excellent unbiased journalism and impartial reporting, and he is happy to see other people pay for it. I am not sure where the institutional ageism, sexism and pedophilia fits in there, but still.......

[msmoby]

Once again, you post unthinkingly.

RT was created to put the Russian perspective and is totally funded by the Kremlin

The BBC is NOT conteolled by the govt.

The 'tax' or tv licence is payabale by all receiving live tv feeds and is not the only source of income.

Some people proudky boast that they don't pay for their tv licence)



.

[Manny]

The BBC is NOT conteolled by the govt.

No? Please list all the other channels that the government allows to tax the nation to fund their existence.

[msmoby]

The BBC is NOT conteolled by the govt.

No? Please list all the other channels that the government allows to tax the nation to fund their existence.

Once again you do not want to read.

I did not say the BBC didn't receive funding from the cillection of the TV licence fee. I SAID it easn't controlled by the govt.

Your very own words admit this...Yesterday it was tun by lefties! For those unaware the UK has a rt of centre govt..

Carry on ......!

.

[andrewfi]

Just because a thing is repeated often is not a reason for it to become validated.
The oft repeated lie remains a lie even if we treat it as truth as a matter of convenience.

Those of us who know better have a duty to remind others that repetition of falsehood does not actually change the lie to truth.

Alfy, have a shot at the truth for a moment.
Link us to three discrete cases where, in a significant matter of government policy, the BBC  has taken an editorial viewpoint that opposes the UK government's public statements of policy. Try to keep your illustrations within the past twelve months in order to not dilute your case.

[msmoby]

Afi... 'honest viewpints' like I was fired on by UA snipers...when it was fireworks and any idot could see that...so much for the 'expertise' of RT stringers passing themselers off as 'journos' ))

.

[Wiz]

RT was created to put the Russian perspective and is totally funded by the Kremlin

Finally after the war in south Ossetia .... they realised that they have to modernise to compete with the western more sophisticated propaganda. 

Remember those excellent ....   reports of the BBC with Suck-my-willy from Georgia eating his tie and diving under a car for protection? 

The BBC is NOT conteolled by the govt.

Are you sure about it?  Have you checked David's Zionist family routes and also that of most of the BBC Governors?

Have you also noticed the lack of any extensive reporting emanating from Palestine, during the last year's attacks from Israel?

We have to thank Alistair Cambel for destroying the BBC's world reputation and change of direction. Before that episode we had more impartial reporting.

The 'tax' or tv licence is payabale by all receiving live tv feeds and is not the only source of income.

Some people proudky boast that they don't pay for their tv licence)

TV licence is just an indirect tax in the UK and other EU countries, where in Russia is coming out of the direct taxes and of course from its huge oil and gas exports.

No much difference ........ 

[Manny]

Nonsense..  utter nonsense... As you well know the BBC does not follow govt policy requests

However, if you search under BRICS on the BBC site... you get no hits..

I'll just leave that here.............

[Ste]

The BBC is NOT conteolled by the govt.

No? Please list all the other channels that the government allows to tax the nation to fund their existence.

I think the fact is the Gov in UK can tacitly fund a News Organ via a fee/tax call it what you will, and that News Organ can still criticise it's paymaster, and even condemn it, as it often does.

Surely that's a good thing and unique.

Plus, the BBC Telly is cock on!

Pay the fee, Christ its nowt!

[msmoby]

Just because a thing is repeated often is not a reason for it to become validated.

would that be like the 'referendum' in Crimea and how it was achieved - peacefully, without force of arms 

The oft repeated lie remains a lie even if we treat it as truth as a matter of convenience.

Like calling me 'Alfie' based on a character that uses women for his selfish ends and stating I am living off the backs of my partners or have defrauded  / owe money everywhere ...

Those of us who know better have a duty to remind others that repetition of falsehood does not actually change the lie to truth.

I love it when you lecture us about your failings ...

Alfy, have a shot at the truth for a moment.
Link us to three discrete cases where, in a significant matter of government policy, the BBC  has taken an editorial viewpoint that opposes the UK government's public statements of policy. Try to keep your illustrations within the past twelve months in order to not dilute your case.

'Sorry' afi - but I think you need to be 'honest' and prove my assertion wrong... I am not about to do your homework for you.... You might get paid for posting bollox...earn your keep

[msmoby]

Finally after the war in south Ossetia .... they realised that they have to modernise to compete with the western more sophisticated propaganda. 



[quote author = moby]The BBC is NOT controlled by the govt.

Oh for gawd's sake, Wiz... Manny says they're all lefties and you think they are run by 'zionists'...)))





[quote author=Wiz link=topic=20682.msg412012#msg412012 date=1437043195
Have you also noticed the lack of any extensive reporting emanating from Palestine, during the last year's attacks from Israel?

no  ..nor did I miss the coverage of pro Palestine demos... you must have been gardening ))



[quote author=Wiz link=topic=20682.msg412012#msg412012 date=1437043195
We have to thank Alistair Cambel for destroying the BBC's world reputation and change of direction. Before that episode we had more impartial reporting.[/quote]

Campell? The king of spin?! I think you may be confused, Wiz

[quote = moby...could you try and ensure the author is named, Wiz?  Even if the spelling should mean they are shot! ]The 'tax' or tv licence is payabale by all receiving live tv feeds and is not the only source of income.

Some people proudky boast that they don't pay for their tv licence)[/quote]



[quote author=Wiz link=topic=20682.msg412012#msg412012 date=1437043195
TV licence is just an indirect tax in the UK and other EU countries, where in Russia is coming out of the direct taxes and of course from its huge oil and gas exports.

No much difference ........ 
[/quote]

BIG difference, Wiz...  I am not alone in pointing out the indirect is important and unlike RT trying to influence the BBC's output tends to be unfortunate for the political leader that tries...ask Tony Blair. OR Mr Campell.





.

[Manny]

More BBC honesty: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3164738/Arrogant-naive-just-plain-dishonest-BBC-bosses-tried-fool-licence-payer-self-serving-celebrities-letter.html

The chap referred to in the article Danny Cohen, is the one who dropped Top Gear and lost the BBC millions by so doing. Yes, he blocks me on Twitter too. 

[andrewfi]

So, Alfy, more bluster, lies and bollox from you.

You are one of those people who never fails to live down to one's expectations.

[Wiz]

Mark

You will never change, always tedious in your responses, copying the Russian women's mentality and habit of disputing everything that a man says, before even the man had the chance to finished his sentence. It's called ... "Jumping on my throat". Stop and think for a minute before you open your mouth. Bad habits die hard I would say!

I kindly advice you not to be so predictable and boring.

You are appear to be very anxious to dispute, everything that somebody said, that on this post  you made an absolutely mess.

If you don't get a reply from me.... it means that I can't be arsed to play silly games.

Finally after the war in south Ossetia .... they realised that they have to modernise to compete with the western more sophisticated propaganda. 

The BBC is NOT controlled by the govt.

Are you sure about it?  Have you checked David's Zionist family routes and also that of most of the BBC Governors?

Oh for gawd's sake, Wiz... Manny says they're all lefties and you think they are run by 'zionists'...)))

Have you also noticed the lack of any extensive reporting emanating from Palestine, during the last year's attacks from Israel?

no  ..nor did I miss the coverage of pro Palestine demos... you must have been gardening ))

We have to thank Alistair Cambel for destroying the BBC's world reputation and change of direction. Before that episode we had more impartial reporting.

Campell? The king of spin?! I think you may be confused, Wiz

The 'tax' or tv licence is payabale by all receiving live tv feeds and is not the only source of income. Some people proudky boast that they don't pay for their tv licence)

The TV licence is just an indirect tax in the UK and other EU countries, where in Russia is coming out of the direct taxes and of course from its huge oil and gas exports.

No much difference ........ 

BIG difference, Wiz...  I am not alone in pointing out the indirect is important and unlike RT trying to influence the BBC's output tends to be unfortunate for the political leader that tries...ask Tony Blair. OR Mr Campell.
 

I had enough correcting your rubish..... next time I will ignore your comments.  


May I ask you, if you have visited, lately your favoured place, Amsterdam, and some.....nice coffee shop?

All I have to say for all your drivel above.... check the facts and then......you may talk again.

Mr Cambell done the dirty work for Blair and in doing so he damaged the credibility of the BBC.

Now if we read the same news and you understand differently, it's your problem.... not mine.

As about the output of the news at the BBC ........... the demos in the UK were not as important As the actual facts from the place of action.

Finally in the propaganda wars...... who said it first even if it is a lie, according to a CIA operative today on RT, has more value than a repost from the other side.......however loud they shout!

That is exactly what the Obama Administration has been doing all a long regarding Russia and the Crimea.

Good night! 

[msmoby]

So, Alfy, more bluster, lies and bollox from you.

You are one of those people who never fails to live down to one's expectations.

Whar ARE you talking about, fifi..

1/ You need to post contextually - otherwise you might sound irrational

2/ I am not the one repeatedly posting patent lies on here about members personal lives

Try to post again, quoting the 'lie' ...