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Author Topic: an investment opportunity (not sure I would though)  (Read 7152 times)

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Offline Turboguy

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Re: an investment opportunity (not sure I would though)
« Reply #60 on: January 15, 2014, 06:48:58 AM »
Most cars are a bad investment, there is a few, if had for the right price
will go up in value. Very few. But if you enjoy, they do pay great dividends
for the head and heart.
This can be said for several different collectables.
As for investing, I do a little and now get better returns than a broker
but, mostly play at it and doing this way will never make me rich.
Investing to be rich, is a full time job.
I would probably prefer investing in cars to gold.  Cars however do rust, need repairs, the finish fades, the tires wear or rot if they are just sitting and do take time and effort that is more like work than pleasure.  Gold as a lump of metal has little appeal.  Collecting coins can be interesting but reaches a point where it gets tiresome.  You also have to worry about theft.  It is easier for someone to carry off a bag of coins than a 1965 Mustang although they can drive the car off. 

From a pure investment standpoint my preference is stocks.  I don't know that investing to be rich is a full time job.  If you are going to pick individual stocks there are some that don't need a lot of attention and some that do but it does take time, perhaps a few hours a day.  Not that being rich is one of my goals.  I have no real desire to be rich.  I also have no real desire to be poor.   I do like not having to worry about money and having some security.  I see experts who say the days when the individual investor can pick his own stocks and do well are gone.  I think that is a bunch of bunk.  I have been doing it consistently for many decades and like NS-1 I nearly always beat the pros.   I do see a very strong tendency among investors to buy high and sell low.  They see a stock that has gone from 5 bucks to 30 and want to ride the trend.  They buy it and it starts dropping and they panic and sell low.  Someone wanting to invest in stock would be wise to pay attention to some of the philosophies of Warren Buffet. Think about what I just said about people wanting to buy high and sell low and then think about Warren Buffets statement  “Be Fearful When Others Are Greedy and Greedy When Others Are Fearful”

Online NS1

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Re: an investment opportunity (not sure I would though)
« Reply #61 on: January 15, 2014, 07:51:33 AM »
Turbo I agree on every point, cars only work if its a passion, more often than not, they don't. Gold, I don't have any so and no great desire, but could see it, if you can buy at right time. Stocks to get rich take a lot of time. Stocks to improve your wealth, not as much, I tend to research and buy on a 5 year plan, Got that from the Motley fools:)
One of their approaches for the person who knows nothing, is pick a date, on that date buy stock in the top 5 fortune 500 companies. At the one year Anniversary. sell and re-buy, the top 5 again, rinse and repeat. the look backwards on this over 40 year cycle would net you between 15-25% a year, I am about to try it, so will let you know:)

As for the world ending, Again I agree with  Turbo, having food or a useable commodity
would be the most valuable asset, if there is even anything left:)
There is nothing permanent except change.

Offline Turboguy

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Re: an investment opportunity (not sure I would though)
« Reply #62 on: January 15, 2014, 08:32:38 AM »
Turbo I agree on every point, cars only work if its a passion, more often than not, they don't. Gold, I don't have any so and no great desire, but could see it, if you can buy at right time. Stocks to get rich take a lot of time. Stocks to improve your wealth, not as much, I tend to research and buy on a 5 year plan, Got that from the Motley fools:)
One of their approaches for the person who knows nothing, is pick a date, on that date buy stock in the top 5 fortune 500 companies. At the one year Anniversary. sell and re-buy, the top 5 again, rinse and repeat. the look backwards on this over 40 year cycle would net you between 15-25% a year, I am about to try it, so will let you know:)


Keep me posted about how it works for you.  Unfortunately, it will take so long to know that by the time you have results we will have long forgotten this thread, but let me know anyway.  There are a lot of things that work well and that seems like it could.

I try to be fairly diversified in the stocks I have but one of the things that has worked well for me has been to buy stocks when everyone hates them.  For example I bought some BP not real long after the spill.  I thought they were big enough that it would not put them out of business and the stock has done fairly well.  I got into some bank stocks a few years ago when everyone hated them.  They have done well.  A year ago I bought 1000 shares of Rite Aid for $ 1.08 a share.   The company had been losing money but looking at the financials I could see they were turning it around.  Not long after I bought it they turned profitable.   The stock is now selling for $ 5.50 a share and I expect it to be over $ 20 in a few years.

I also try to find companies that seem like they are on the cutting edge of things.  3D printing stocks were last years big venture and most doubled last year.  One that I am out of for the moment but plan to get back into is ONVO which is a 3D printer company that hopes to be able to print live human organs for transplant some day.  Right now they are able to print liver tissue which will speed up the development of new drugs.  Printing hearts and lungs is way off in the future but should they ever be able to do that it could be an interesting stock.

I have had off years but for the most part have been able to beat the market.  I had one major goof (and a couple of minor ones.) over the years.  My big goof was ages ago I bought 100 shares of Apple for $ 12.00 a share.  At the time it was a small computer company with some strength in schools and graphics professionals.   It went to $ 19.00 and I sold it.  20 minutes after I sold it an internet buddy of mine called and said, "Don't sell your Apple"  Listen to the news.  We a few minutes after I sold it Steve Jobs announced he was coming back to Apple.   I did think about buying it back but was too hard headed to buy back at $ 28.00 a share a stock I had just sold for $ 19.00 a share.    Well you could look at the current price and say I could have converted $ 1,200 to $ 55,000.00 but that doesn't take into account that there have been 3 two for one stock splits and one 3 for 2 split which means had I held that stock and kept it today as I did with most of the stocks I had then it would now be worth about $ 450,000.  I guess you can't win them all but that sure would have been a nice one to win.  I guess I did win but just on a much smaller scale than I could have.  I do like to look back on that goof and laugh.

 


Online NS1

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Re: an investment opportunity (not sure I would though)
« Reply #63 on: January 15, 2014, 10:46:51 AM »
Goofs where you still make something are easier to swallow.
I took a nasty hit in 09 like many, did not even open the letters or computer for 6 months LOL. I have tried the buy what everyone hates thing, not as lucky,
nortell, figure to big to go under, agh NO, and a couple others, but for the most part
I run around 16% return per year. but not on a huge amount.
I have two very high risk stocks, for low amounts at a time.
Sorta like a lottery ticket if they every hit :)
I don't devote near enough time to be real good at it, and will never be rich.
If I can improve my over all pace, better than the brokers, I am happy.
There is nothing permanent except change.

Offline Turboguy

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Re: an investment opportunity (not sure I would though)
« Reply #64 on: January 15, 2014, 12:25:20 PM »
I liked 09.  Yes, my stocks went way down but I had been so busy with my business that I never even looked at my stocks.  One stock I bought for $ 15.00 had been bought out for $ 50 so I had a little cash in there and did some buying right at the bottom.  Picking up stocks like Macys for 8 bucks a share and DOW for $ 11.00 a share.   I didn't have much in the market at the time but when I came back I was way up from where I had been. 

I don't care if I ever get rich but my wife may not leave me much choice.   She is so frugal we end up living on about 25% of what I make.  For the past few years I have been adding a lot to my savings which is probably a good thing at my age anyway.  I plan to work for at least another 8 years but thanks to her I will probably have some pretty good savings when I retire.  Of course if she ever decides to divorce me then she may end up with a pretty good savings    :laugh:

It can go the other way too.  I recall back a ways when I had been more active in the stock market the girl friend I had at the time saw me doing well and decided to take her sons college fund and invest it in the market.  She had seem me do well on a stock called Discrete Logic that did special effects software for movie producers (their software was used for the movie Speed for example).  I had bought it for $ 6.25 and sold it for $ 35.00.   She decided to buy it at $ 35.00 (I didn't understand why) and ended up selling it for $ 6.00.  She bought Coke at her sons suggestion since they had just been awarded the concession for the Atlanta Olympics (which to me was not important) and lost a couple of grand and bought Planet Hollywood and Boston Market which both went belly up.  She ended up wiping out her sons college fund in a year.   The only good thing was he decided to be a pizza delivery guy rather than go to college, but it can go both ways.  You can make money or lose money. 

Online NS1

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Re: an investment opportunity (not sure I would though)
« Reply #65 on: January 15, 2014, 01:21:19 PM »
You pay to play and must be prepared to lose also.
Many forget this, I have seen it with a few friends.
They do well on a few stocks, then think they are an expert.
next thing they have some huge losses.
If you don't want to lose, play safe, buy RRSP's or SUch things.
I have done ok and have been reminded enough, that one mistake
can take months to gain back. When I have time it is actually a little
fun to do, but there is always risks attached.
There is nothing permanent except change.

Offline ashbyclarke

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Re: an investment opportunity (not sure I would though)
« Reply #66 on: January 16, 2014, 04:10:52 PM »

I try to be fairly diversified in the stocks I have but one of the things that has worked well for me has been to buy stocks when everyone hates them.  For example I bought some BP not real long after the spill.  I thought they were big enough that it would not put them out of business and the stock has done fairly well.  I got into some bank stocks a few years ago when everyone hated them.  They have done well.  A year ago I bought 1000 shares of Rite Aid for $ 1.08 a share.   The company had been losing money but looking at the financials I could see they were turning it around.  Not long after I bought it they turned profitable.   The stock is now selling for $ 5.50 a share and I expect it to be over $ 20 in a few years.


Similar model as I follow, I tend to go for out of favour stocks that will do well over the coming years as the business rebuilds, banking sector has been one for the recovering economy, and lets face it if it doesn't recover we'll all be needing those tins of beans. I prefer to trade over a short period, buying low, selling high and repurchasing, it can work out to your advantage, but then you can miss out on bull runs and it all seems a little pointless.

As you said about Apple Shares, don't look at what could have been rather look at what has been, a profit, it's the only way.

Another approach is to latch on to the high income shares, those that have without fail paid an increasing dividend year on year, there's a few out there, not so many recently though. A little research and it isn't so hard to find the good paying stocks, and with a little sensible knowledge you can pick stocks that are unlikely to be hit by the financial climate of late, or will benefit from a recovering economy.

You can take things a step further and track a few of the more traded shares, generally they take a very good profit one day and  a hard hit the next, if you time it right you can make a % or two every other day, it's all about tracking and making an educated guess on the daily or weekly trend. As way of example here in England Lloyds Bank (LLOY.L) has been a highly traded share as the fluctuations have been sufficient to cover the 0.5% stamp duty and broker costs. Additionally it is a safer business model so you can be a little assured the short term share price isn't going to sink overnight, but there's no guarantees.

Even Tesco's with it's poor results could make you a good return of 10% monthly if traded correctly. With tools available on the mobile phone and a little bit of a gambler in you, you could make a good monthly return. It takes a lot of daily monitoring and balls of steal if it's your life savings though.

NS, with your approach I hope you are investing with companies that have a good short term strategy, those companies who have a good new CEO or an opening that's going to give them market edge, even with a 5 year view it's pretty short term and needs careful consideration to stocks purchased.

Finally always remember to buy and repurchase shares annually to take advantage of your annual tax allowance, here in the UK shares are taxed at CGT rates, which has a separate allowance to that of income tax.
I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're gonna feel all day - Frank Sinatra

Offline shakespear

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Re: an investment opportunity (not sure I would though)
« Reply #67 on: January 16, 2014, 08:56:14 PM »
I'm a buy and hold stock investor.

I use dividend reinvestment plans to accumulate positions.  This allows you to make purchases and reinvest dividends usually at no cost.  I started out in 1995 investing $100 per month.  I now have 15 different stocks with a total portfolio value of over $160,000.  My goal is to have the portfolio return $12,000 per year in dividend income when I retire. 

Before I invest a penny in the stock market, I make sure that I maximize the contribution to my 401k and retirement accounts for myself and my wife.  They are all in mutual funds.  I re-balance maybe once every year. 
"If you obey all the rules, you miss all the fun" - Katharine Hepburn

Offline ashbyclarke

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Re: an investment opportunity (not sure I would though)
« Reply #68 on: January 17, 2014, 03:29:10 PM »
I'm a buy and hold stock investor.

I use dividend reinvestment plans to accumulate positions.  This allows you to make purchases and reinvest dividends usually at no cost.  I started out in 1995 investing $100 per month.  I now have 15 different stocks with a total portfolio value of over $160,000.  My goal is to have the portfolio return $12,000 per year in dividend income when I retire. 

Before I invest a penny in the stock market, I make sure that I maximize the contribution to my 401k and retirement accounts for myself and my wife.  They are all in mutual funds.  I re-balance maybe once every year.

Ever thought of investing in UK stocks Shakes? There's a few that might take your fancy with your investment strategy.

Never looked into doing the reverse, would be interesting to share thoughts on shares across the pond.

On the old pension thing, it's something that I don't care for, we have pensions here in england that basically attract tax free (ish) growth until they're commuted to a pension or annuity as it's known, there are other options nowadays I know, but it's pretty limited.

I on the other hand prefer to save cash which i can choose to do with what i wish later, if I choose to purchase an annuity at retirement I get the tax relief then. It's slightly different as you get what is called capital content (basically say if you pay a lump sum of £100k then you get say £10k per annum returned tax free as part of the capital invested, based on life expectancy) as a tax free income with the remainder subject to income tax. Not sure if you have same in the US.

Personally i think it gives you greater flexibility, and should rules change with government policy, as it always does, I have the access to my cash to do with as I please.
I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're gonna feel all day - Frank Sinatra

Offline shakespear

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Re: an investment opportunity (not sure I would though)
« Reply #69 on: January 17, 2014, 03:59:13 PM »
Ever thought of investing in UK stocks Shakes? There's a few that might take your fancy with your investment strategy.

I bought 500 shares of RBS-PT at $22.45 which locked in an +8% income.  Stock is now trading near it's call value of $25 so I'll have a nice capital gain as well. 

Never looked into doing the reverse, would be interesting to share thoughts on shares across the pond.

Plenty of information on Dividend Reinvestment Plans (DRiP) on the internet.  The Motley Fool is a great place to start your reseach on the companies that offer these low/no cost stock accumulation plans. 

On the old pension thing, it's something that I don't care for, we have pensions here in England that basically attract tax free (ish) growth until they're commuted to a pension or annuity as it's known, there are other options nowadays I know, but it's pretty limited.

I on the other hand prefer to save cash which i can choose to do with what i wish later, if I choose to purchase an annuity at retirement I get the tax relief then. It's slightly different as you get what is called capital content (basically say if you pay a lump sum of £100k then you get say £10k per annum returned tax free as part of the capital invested, based on life expectancy) as a tax free income with the remainder subject to income tax. Not sure if you have same in the US.

Personally i think it gives you greater flexibility, and should rules change with government policy, as it always does, I have the access to my cash to do with as I please.

Here in the USA, to encourage lower paid employees to invest in pension plans (and avoid penalties for having top heavy participation), many employers match a certain percentage of an employees contribution to a 401k plan.  My employer matches 50%.  Therefore I have a 50% return locked in immediately upon investment.  Hard to pass on that for any reason.

Contributions to a 401k are also made tax free.  You pay tax on the contributions and capital growth when you take it out of the plan and your tax bracket will be significantly lower. 

Contributions to an IRA are tax exempt for people under a certain income level.  Over that level you can still make the contribution and the contribution is tax free upon withdrawl, but the capital gains are taxed. 

ROTH-IRA allows both contributions and capital gains to be withdrawn at retirement tax free.  My income is too high to allow me to participate in this plan. 
"If you obey all the rules, you miss all the fun" - Katharine Hepburn

Offline Turboguy

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Re: an investment opportunity (not sure I would though)
« Reply #70 on: January 18, 2014, 07:59:30 AM »
I'm a buy and hold stock investor.

I use dividend reinvestment plans to accumulate positions.  This allows you to make purchases and reinvest dividends usually at no cost.  I started out in 1995 investing $100 per month.  I now have 15 different stocks with a total portfolio value of over $160,000.  My goal is to have the portfolio return $12,000 per year in dividend income when I retire. 

Before I invest a penny in the stock market, I make sure that I maximize the contribution to my 401k and retirement accounts for myself and my wife.  They are all in mutual funds.  I re-balance maybe once every year.
Shakespear, I just want to compliment you on your last two posts.  The second was a great overview of the retirement options in the USA.  You made a very good point in the first of the last two that a small savings in the stock market can produce big results over time.  I was reading something in Money magazine a few months ago that was something to the effect that if someone adds $ 100 a month to the stock market starting in their early 20's by the time they retire it will grow to a half million.  I could be a little off on my numbers but the end result was quite good.  The important thing is to start early.  It doesn't take much to save a little a month and in the stock market that can grow quite handily. 

It is always smart if someone has a 401-K to max out things as much as you can.  I never had one since I haven't had an employer since I was 21 but still it is a good way to go.  Not all 401-K's are the same.  The return is usually better on money you invest yourself but with the employer match it is a good way to go.  I was reading another article where one guy analyzed his 401-K and his return on his and the employers money had been $ 1700.00 and he had generated $ 47,000 in management fees.   Usually when picking a mutual fund or the like one of the really important things to look at are the fees.  Usually the lower the fee the better the return. 

Anyway nice posts and our goals are about the same.  I hope when I do retire, if ever that my dividend income is about what your goal is.  I am on target to hit that in the time frame I plan.

Offline ashbyclarke

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Re: an investment opportunity (not sure I would though)
« Reply #71 on: January 18, 2014, 11:35:56 AM »

 You made a very good point in the first of the last two that a small savings in the stock market can produce big results over time.  I was reading something in Money magazine a few months ago that was something to the effect that if someone adds $ 100 a month to the stock market starting in their early 20's by the time they retire it will grow to a half million.  I could be a little off on my numbers but the end result was quite good. 

Commonly known as Pound Cost Averaging here in the UK.

It's a good idea for those who don't follow the stock markets, if you know what you're doing and can spend a little time following things you should be able to increase your returns, there's an interesting article here for those who wish to learn a little more.

http://www.morningstar.co.uk/uk/news/96177/is-pound-cost-averaging-overrated.aspx


I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're gonna feel all day - Frank Sinatra