Thrill of the hunt? Pursuing Perfection? Why does it take so long in some cases?

[2tallbill]

Ashby Clark asked this in my Trip Report, I think it merits it's own Thread.

For those who have been at this for years............. Why so long? Is it
the thrill of the hunt? pursuing perfection or the unobtainable? or something
else?

Bill, interesting thread, I have a serious question for you.

You have been at this game for a long time, bit like myself, do you think you are searching for something that's perhaps not achievable or have you become addicted to the chase or is there something else?

Be interested to know what your thoughts are.....

[Larry]

I'll copy my response from the thread in which this question was originally raised:

I thought I would comment because this is a common question and a discussion of it would be helpful.  It really deserves its own thread. Some guys, particularly those who found success in their searches very quickly, believe that there is something wrong with the guy or his approach if he doesn't find success fairly quickly.   Sometimes this is true, but not always.

It's great if the guy meets the right girl on his first try.  But often this does not happen. The two people just aren't right for each other, and they might not come to that conclusion until they've been seeing each other for 9 months or 12 months, or perhaps even after the girl comes to the guy's country.

Even if the guy goes about this search intelligently, there are many ways for the relationships to end without marriage.  These relationships seem to be inherently fragile.  I have heard of so many of them that end for various reasons, even though each person is making some effort to make them work.

And that is true even under good circumstances.  If some serious setback happens in the life of either party to the relationship, then the relationship can be at real risk.  If the guy loses his job, for example, and spends months trying to find another job, he usually cuts back on discretionary expenses such as foreign travel.   Likewise, if much of a guy's income depends on bonuses and business is bad, he might not have the wherewithal to keep up regular travel to sustain the relationship, so it dies.

[ashbyclarke]

Bill, interesting thread, I have a serious question for you.

You have been at this game for a long time, bit like myself, do you think you are searching for something that's perhaps not achievable or have you become addicted to the chase or is there something else?

Be interested to know what your thoughts are.....

I haven't been authorized to speak for Bill, but I thought I would comment because this is a common question and a discussion of it would be helpful.  It really deserves its own thread. Some guys, particularly those who found success in their searches very quickly, believe that there is something wrong with the guy or his approach if he doesn't find success fairly quickly.   Sometimes this is true, but not always.

Even if the guy goes about this search intelligently, there are many ways for the relationships to end without marriage.  These relationships seem to be inherently fragile.  I have heard of so many of them that end for various reasons, even though each person is making some effort to make them work.

And that is true even under good circumstances.  If some serious setback happens in the life of either party to the relationship, then the relationship can be at real risk.  If the guy loses his job, for example, and spends months trying to find another job, he usually cuts back on discretionary expenses such as foreign travel.   Likewise, if much of a guy's income depends on bonuses and business is bad, he might not have the wherewithal to keep up the relationship, so it dies.

Good post Larry.

There's also the panic that sets in with responsibility, maybe, also the financial commitment, not to mention the loss of independence, I know it's what is originally sought but this original thought can be lost in the addiction.

For those that can travel quite easily and have done so for a while I think there's a tendency to expect better, always find fault with what they have, knowing they can easily hop on another silver bird !

Be interested to know other peoples thoughts on this, even those good ones they've given up in the hope of finding better?!

My response from Bill's thread !

[BelleZeBoob]

Ashby Clark asked this in my Trip Report, I think it merits it's own Thread.

For those who have been at this for years............. Why so long? Is it
the thrill of the hunt? pursuing perfection or the unobtainable? or something
else?

Could be just bad luck, plain and simple. Relationships are not something that could be earned or deserved.

[2tallbill]

Thrill of the hunt? Pursuing Perfection? Why does it take so long in some cases?
How hard can it be? it can be hard. Especially if you get started off on the wrong
foot, pay by the letter agencies, meet a creative scammer, run into prodaters
etc.

Or if you think a lot of the rules don't apply to you.

Also there is life itself that pops up. Family deaths or family health issues, a
severe economic down turn. Having an AW GF, or meeting an RW GF locally
for a time would take you out of the hunt and you would have to start over. 

It's not easy, it requires time, treasure, maximum effort and patience. If you
lack any one of those 4 things then you are going to be relying on luck. 

Did I enjoy the hunt? Hell yes I did. Did I enjoy starting over? Hell no I didn't.

I am cautiously optimistic that my hunting days are over. It took a long time
for sure. I chased the wrong girls from pay by the letter agencies. I chased girls
who were too young, I made mistakes but I kept making different mistakes.

I had real life issues with my business and family that took me out of the
hunt for a over a year. I had a Russian girl friend here in the USA for quite
some time. I had an American girl friend for several months.

Hopefully I am finished hunting. Now the difficult part begins.

Udachi !


Bill

[Anteros]

Thrill of the hunt? Pursuing Perfection? Why does it take so long in some cases?
How hard can it be? it can be hard. Especially if you get started off on the wrong
foot, pay by the letter agencies, meet a creative scammer, run into prodaters
etc.

Or if you think a lot of the rules don't apply to you.

Also there is life itself that pops up. Family deaths or family health issues, a
severe economic down turn. Having an AW GF, or meeting an RW GF locally
for a time would take you out of the hunt and you would have to start over. 

It's not easy, it requires time, treasure, maximum effort and patience. If you
lack any one of those 4 things then you are going to be relying on luck. 

Did I enjoy the hunt? Hell yes I did. Did I enjoy starting over? Hell no I didn't.

I am cautiously optimistic that my hunting days are over. It took a long time
for sure. I chased the wrong girls from pay by the letter agencies. I chased girls
who were too young, I made mistakes but I kept making different mistakes.

I had real life issues with my business and family that took me out of the
hunt for a over a year. I had a Russian girl friend here in the USA for quite
some time. I had an American girl friend for several months.

Hopefully I am finished hunting. Now the difficult part begins.

Udachi !


Bill

If you are planning to put a rock on her finger you might want to change your avatar to something more serious, like a sunset.

Just my two kopecks.

Udachi!!

[Eduard]

These relationships seem to be inherently fragile.  I have heard of so many of them that end for various reasons, even though each person is making some effort to make them work.

I have noticed that much of this fragility comes from having to deal with a language and cultural barrier. Even if a woman speaks decent English couples encounter misunderstandings, some are more serious than the others and some can end a relationship.

[Jeffery]

A recent post by 2TallBill in response to ashbyclarke's post of a similar title to this one inspired me to write this.

To my mind ashbyclarke has it just a bit backwards.
He's making it seem as if it's normal to find a mate on the first or second visit.
Those are the exceptions, not the rule.

So I would like to turn his thread on its head with what I think is a much more appropriate question.
For those who succeeded in finding their significant other on just one or two trips:
 
How did you manage to find your FSU wife in such little time?

[Manny]

One trip isnt enough to find "the one" (or more correctly, a suitable one - as there is more than one). It may be enough to find some woman who will marry you, which isn't quite the same thing.

I started this topic with another name three months ago: How hard can it be?

I think the premise is simple.

Read some stuff: Read the forum, especially the stickies, maybe this spiffing book too    and generally learn the landscape.

While learning the landscape, learn what is realistic and what isn't. 22 year old über babes in Odessa don't want to marry your 55 year old ass and live in Kansas. Keep it real.

Having learned the landscape, research which sites and/or service providers you will use to make it happen.

Don't be skint. If you are skint, go away and save up. Come back to this when you have a spare $30k in the bank. $20k at least.

Have some time to do this. If you have two weeks holiday a year, this isn't for you. Try match.com. This stuff takes time and multiple visits short periods apart.

Learn some basic Russian. Learn the Cyrillic alphabet. Don't marry a woman who speaks no English unless you are fluent in Russian.

Don't marry the first woman you meet. Don't propose on the first visit. Don't send money or do silly stuff you wouldn't do at home. Don't buy fur coats or iphones. Don't marry women you don't know. Don't flock blindly to Kiev or Odessa like every other sheeple. Don't write bullshit off to cultural differences. Bullshit smells the same in any language.

Get on a plane and go meet a woman/women. If it doesn't work out, rinse and repeat until you find the right one.

[Mikeav8r]

One trip isnt enough to find "the one" (or more correctly, a suitable one - as there is more than one). It may be enough to find some woman who will marry you, which isn't quite the same thing.

I started this topic with another name three months ago: How hard can it be?

I think the premise is simple.

Read some stuff: Read the forum, especially the stickies, maybe this spiffing book too    and generally learn the landscape.

While learning the landscape, learn what is realistic and what isn't. 22 year old über babes in Odessa don't want to marry your 55 year old ass and live in Kansas. Keep it real.

Having learned the landscape, research which sites and/or service providers you will use to make it happen.

Don't be skint. If you are skint, go away and save up. Come back to this when you have a spare $30k in the bank. $20k at least.

Have some time to do this. If you have two weeks holiday a year, this isn't for you. Try match.com. This stuff takes time and multiple visits short periods apart.

Learn some basic Russian. Learn the Cyrillic alphabet. Don't marry a woman who speaks no English unless you are fluent in Russian.

Don't marry the first woman you meet. Don't propose on the first visit. Don't send money or do silly stuff you wouldn't do at home. Don't buy fur coats or iphones. Don't marry women you don't know. Don't flock blindly to Kiev or Odessa like every other sheeple. Don't write bullshit off to cultural differences. Bullshit smells the same in any language.

Get on a plane and go meet a woman/women. If it doesn't work out, rinse and repeat until you find the right one.

Wait...you mean there is no menu to order off of and Fedex Express shipping them to my front door after I made my choice? 

[Jeffery]

One trip isnt enough to find "the one" (or more correctly, a suitable one - as there is more than one). It may be enough to find some woman who will marry you, which isn't quite the same thing.

...Get on a plane and go meet a woman/women. If it doesn't work out, rinse and repeat until you find the right one.

Great post Manny!  It should be a sticky because it covers pretty much all the bases quite succinctly and is written by a man who has been there and done it and owns the company, so to speak. 

However, I'd still like to hear from those who managed to find their FSU mate in just one or two trips and what secrets they'd like to share about their success.

[sashathecat]

One trip isnt enough to find "the one" (or more correctly, a suitable one - as there is more than one). It may be enough to find some woman who will marry you, which isn't quite the same thing.

...Get on a plane and go meet a woman/women. If it doesn't work out, rinse and repeat until you find the right one.

Great post Manny!  It should be a sticky because it covers pretty much all the bases quite succinctly and is written by a man who has been there and done it and owns the company, so to speak. 

However, I'd still like to hear from those who managed to find their FSU mate in just one or two trips and what secrets they'd like to share about their success.

I met my wife the first trip over and broke most of the rules along the way. Wrong agency, wrong city, not checking on Skype, you name it and I broke it. There are no secrets, it is basically what Manny said. Work on yourself, be realistic, and have some time and money. After that it may just be a game of numbers and bit of luck.

[Manny]

However, I'd still like to hear from those who managed to find their FSU mate in just one or two trips and what secrets they'd like to share about their success.

I think there is no formula for that. A handful broke all the rules and got lucky. They just happened to meet the right woman first time out of of the gate and hit paydirt. I don't think you can plan that, or is there much in that you can emulate.

Its like asking a lottery winner what special thing they did to win. It just happened. But you may buy lottery tickets for a decade and win zip.

If you want a million dollars, there is no other way than a successful business or investment. Apart from lottery winners. And how many of those do you know who could do it again? From the blokes I know who have a million dollars, most could do it again if they needed to in less time.

Call me a cynic Jeff, but I think you are looking for a way to be a one trip wonder here.

That said, I too am interested to hear what others say.

[Anteros]

One trip isnt enough to find "the one" (or more correctly, a suitable one - as there is more than one). It may be enough to find some woman who will marry you, which isn't quite the same thing.

I started this topic with another name three months ago: How hard can it be?

I think the premise is simple.

Read some stuff: Read the forum, especially the stickies, maybe this spiffing book too    and generally learn the landscape.

While learning the landscape, learn what is realistic and what isn't. 22 year old über babes in Odessa don't want to marry your 55 year old ass and live in Kansas. Keep it real.

Having learned the landscape, research which sites and/or service providers you will use to make it happen.

Don't be skint. If you are skint, go away and save up. Come back to this when you have a spare $30k in the bank. $20k at least.

Have some time to do this. If you have two weeks holiday a year, this isn't for you. Try match.com. This stuff takes time and multiple visits short periods apart.

Learn some basic Russian. Learn the Cyrillic alphabet. Don't marry a woman who speaks no English unless you are fluent in Russian.

Don't marry the first woman you meet. Don't propose on the first visit. Don't send money or do silly stuff you wouldn't do at home. Don't buy fur coats or iphones. Don't marry women you don't know. Don't flock blindly to Kiev or Odessa like every other sheeple. Don't write bullshit off to cultural differences. Bullshit smells the same in any language.

Get on a plane and go meet a woman/women. If it doesn't work out, rinse and repeat until you find the right one.

Wait...you mean there is no menu to order off of and Fedex Express shipping them to my front door after I made my choice? 

Dammit!  Then why the hell is there a photo of an attractive lady getting out of a box in the upper right corner?  What's that all about?   

[Manny]

Dammit!  Then why the hell is there a photo of an attractive lady getting out of a box in the upper right corner?  What's that all about?   

Hey, I had to raid a dumpster at a retail park for that box one morning and then get stung at an Office Depot type place for those polystyrene chips at a whopping $25 or so on my way to the studio. The "Caution - is this package damaged?" tape (which is actually what it says) was already on the box, and quite ironic we thought. 

[Jeffery]

... After that it may just be a game of numbers and bit of luck.

I think there is no formula for that. A handful broke all the rules and got lucky. They just happened to meet the right woman first time out of of the gate and hit paydirt. I don't think you can plan that, or is there much in that you can emulate.

... Call me a cynic Jeff, but I think you are looking for a way to be a one trip wonder here.

That said, I too am interested to hear what others say.

You misread me completely Manny.
My post was made mainly with tongue-in-cheek. 

I know full well that those who find their mate on the first or second trip have
simply been very lucky.

I would just like to hear if these one/two trip wonder guys will admit this, or whether they will come up with other reasons for their success.

Sasha has already admitted there was luck involved.

[Luftmeister]

"The perfect woman"
The disciples began to ask their teacher: "You are so wise, so respectable. People respect you, they all want to follow you. But we have one question – why don’t you have a wife?"

The teacher hesitated, but then began to speak. "You see, I was always looking for the perfect woman! In my search I visited many countries. One day I met a beautiful girl. She was an incredible beauty! Not anyone man can resist her charm! But, unfortunately, she wasn't as beautiful of soul. So we had to leave. Then I met another young girl. She was beautiful, intelligent and educated. But, unfortunately, we didn't converge in character. And couldn't get on together. I've seen a lot of beautiful women, but I wanted a wife which was the perfect woman."

He paused and then continued, "One day I met her. She was an ideal woman: smart, beautiful, charming, highly spiritual, kind, elegant - in a word she was a perfection!"
"So did you marry her?" Asked the disciples, somewhat confused.

"No! To my misfortune, she was looking for the perfect man!"

[Manny]

You misread me completely Manny.
My post was made mainly with tongue-in-cheek. 

I know full well that those who find their mate on the first or second trip have
simply been very lucky.

I would just like to hear if these one/two trip wonder guys will admit this, or whether they will come up with other reasons for their success.

My bad. Tongue in cheek emoticon needed.

[AJ]

I would just like to hear if these one/two trip wonder guys will admit this, or whether they will come up with other reasons for their success.

Sasha has already admitted there was luck involved.

I'd say a lot of luck was involved. I don't consider myself a one week wonder ,
since we met many times, but in this instance , I  did go to visit one woman and ended up marrying her.
It's very doubtful I would have returned to the FSU  in a *search* if we had not hit it off.
She was interesting enough to me to be worth a visit.
So that  can be viewed as pure luck , or as intuition and ability to read compatibility?
 We know until a face to face meeting you can have little idea if there is any chemistry. It can fall flat in 2.3 seconds. You can communicate in depth and think you have a good feel for who the person is.
Face to face , you can often see they are nothing like your expectation, or they can be exactly who you thought they were, and remain so . You can be exactly as they expected and remain so.
So- Is that luck?
 or is it some ability on both peoples parts  to read other people well during communication?

I'm not sure, I  have no barometer to say with any conviction.
I went and visited someone that seemed interesting enough , they were exactly as I expected them
to be.Obviously I believe I read them well and made a good call to go visit!
However ,  realistically even if that could be attributed to me reading people well ,my past experience with being married to a RW, or living in eastern Europe to understand the culture and language somewhat,  I certainly couldn't know if they would fall for me , or find me the same in person as their perception from communication.

 I'd say it's a lot of luck, to those that meet with real compatibility so quickly.
I feel  I was extremely lucky.
I've been hesitant to post a trip report for fear of others even entertaining the idea that my method  is a reasonable way to meet a significant other. It isn't, its mostly pure luck.

I think its  simply -boy meets girl,. see what happens!
Domestically that doesn't turn into marriage very often.
Why should internationally be any different? It's not.

So I fully admit that its luck,  jeffery.
Much like the odds of meeting some one on the next  local date,  that would end in marriage ,is, for the most part, pure luck.

[AJ]

I'll add that I've always felt the goal shouldn't be to search  for the perfect woman for you.
Be the best person you can be, continue to study, to learn, to grow spiritually and emotionally ,
 the rest will follow.

No matter where you travel, you take yourself with you.
 

[2tallbill]

Tongue in cheek emoticon needed.

[Jeffery]

[

I'd say a lot of luck was involved. I don't consider myself a one week wonder ,
since we met many times, but in this instance , I  did go to visit one woman and ended up marrying her.
It's very doubtful I would have returned to the FSU  in a *search* if we had not hit it off.

.... So I fully admit that its luck,  jeffery.
Much like the odds of meeting some one on the next  local date,  that would end in marriage ,is, for the most part, pure luck.

Thanks AJ for being so candid and expanding on what happened in your case.
I appreciate it.
I for one would like to read a trip report of yours if you're up to it, and promise there wouldn't be any derisive comments on my part.

[AJ]

[

I'd say a lot of luck was involved. I don't consider myself a one week wonder ,
since we met many times, but in this instance , I  did go to visit one woman and ended up marrying her.
It's very doubtful I would have returned to the FSU  in a *search* if we had not hit it off.

.... So I fully admit that its luck,  jeffery.
Much like the odds of meeting some one on the next  local date,  that would end in marriage ,is, for the most part, pure luck.

Thanks AJ for being so candid and expanding on what happened in your case.
I appreciate it.
I for one would like to read a trip report of yours if you're up to it, and promise there wouldn't be any derisive comments on my part.

Ahh,, no worries on my end about comments on any TR i might share,
 as i'm thick skinned and confident enough to not care more than entertainment value.

 My worry would be it taken as a good method, or at least a repeatable method, by anyone.Much like Manny mentioned its a lotto ticket,the odds of repeating it would be small?

The flip side is you don't win the lottery without buying a single ticket even.

  To me a trip to the FSU, to have a date, just is not a  high risk that it might be to some folks.
I never have understood that, meeting an interesting woman should be enjoyable, not risky.lol
If it turns out , cool, we'll keep seeing each other and see what transpires, if it doesn't , no big deal.
bad dates happen.
 I have a lot of vacation time, any given year. A lot of the  year my schedules pretty flexible.It's a huge help to international dating. Also I look at travel as completely satisfying and good learning experience in of itself. I look at it as just a long commute for a first date nothing more, nothing less.
and the odds if it actually ending up in marriage little different than any other date , anywhere else.
*shrugs*

I wish anyone a great deal of luck in this venture, as they'll likely need it.

Most people doing a great deal of  due diligence is great, I'd do it as well!
but I also feel in the end its likely mostly to make themselves (myself included)
  feel better and be more confident about the scenario.
The alternative after all is to not plan anything.
The odds it really has much to do with the end result ,in something as wacky and unpredictable as human relationships and *love*, is almost amusing.
 

[NS1]

[

I'd say a lot of luck was involved. I don't consider myself a one week wonder ,
since we met many times, but in this instance , I  did go to visit one woman and ended up marrying her.
It's very doubtful I would have returned to the FSU  in a *search* if we had not hit it off.

.... So I fully admit that its luck,  jeffery.
Much like the odds of meeting some one on the next  local date,  that would end in marriage ,is, for the most part, pure luck.

Thanks AJ for being so candid and expanding on what happened in your case.
I appreciate it.
I for one would like to read a trip report of yours if you're up to it, and promise there wouldn't be any derisive comments on my part.

Ahh,, no worries on my end about comments on any TR i might share,
 as i'm thick skinned and confident enough to not care more than entertainment value.

 My worry would be it taken as a good method, or at least a repeatable method, by anyone.Much like Manny mentioned its a lotto ticket,the odds of repeating it would be small?

The flip side is you don't win the lottery without buying a single ticket even.

  To me a trip to the FSU, to have a date, just is not a  high risk that it might be to some folks.
I never have understood that, meeting an interesting woman should be enjoyable, not risky.lol
If it turns out , cool, we'll keep seeing each other and see what transpires, if it doesn't , no big deal.
bad dates happen.
 I have a lot of vacation time, any given year. A lot of the  year my schedules pretty flexible.It's a huge help to international dating. Also I look at travel as completely satisfying and good learning experience in of itself. I look at it as just a long commute for a first date nothing more, nothing less.
and the odds if it actually ending up in marriage little different than any other date , anywhere else.
*shrugs*

I wish anyone a great deal of luck in this venture, as they'll likely need it.

Most people doing a great deal of  due diligence is great, I'd do it as well!
but I also feel in the end its likely mostly to make themselves (myself included)
  feel better and be more confident about the scenario.
The alternative after all is to not plan anything.
The odds it really has much to do with the end result ,in something as wacky and unpredictable as human relationships and *love*, is almost amusing.
 

AJ, well said.

I agree, even though I was looking, I always treated as a holiday. So when they girl did not work out
the trip was still a success. I have seen and met some interesting people and things.
Ukraine is an interesting place with a rich history. Regardless of the problems the country might have
they are proud people and for the most part good people. I am sure you could say the same about most countries
those here have traveled to in this adventure.

Go with the right attitude and you will enjoy. Meeting the right women is a huge bonus:)

[andrewfi]

I am not one to say that the only way to know something is to have done it; experience is one of the worst ways to learn anything but I just saw AJ's post and I'd urge anyone reading the post to remember that his good luck involves at least two divorces and two different marriages to two different women from the FSU. That's not to say that he is wrong in what he writes but the past is often a good indicator of the future.

So, yes, one can be lucky but how lucky is that?

There's all sorts of reasons why finding a partner takes a long time but for sure a long shopping list of requirements is going to make the process take much longer. In addition it stands to reason that a relationship that is built upon such a basis will be much more fragile. A person who defines a relationship by a list of requirements is unlikely to be adaptable to the real needs of a relationship. One might get away with that where there is a shared background of culture and language so that misunderstandings can be plastered over. When a person who is doctrinaire enough to set a list of 'must haves' finds himself disappointed by the unexpected how does he square that with is need for his shopping list?