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Author Topic: 19 archived photos, unique portraits of citizens of the Soviet Union.  (Read 11822 times)

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Offline Slumba

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Re: 19 archived photos, unique portraits of citizens of the Soviet Union.
« Reply #100 on: November 08, 2013, 12:00:06 PM »

Since the collapse, KGB (the analytic division) archives prove that the Soviet economy was in stagnation since the late 1950's, and declining since the early 1960's.  Only arms and oil prices in the 1970's kept the country from collapsing earlier.

I will take your word for it...  So say 1960 to 1990 for collapse. 

The USA economy has not truly grown since the 1980s ... so 1980 to 2010 or thereabouts ... collapse?
Anchors Rewoven

Offline Halo

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Re: 19 archived photos, unique portraits of citizens of the Soviet Union.
« Reply #101 on: November 08, 2013, 12:05:34 PM »
The US economy can turn more quickly because it is not centrally planned.  The US has a large middle class.  The USSR did not.  The US economy probably is distorted in its taxation of some forms of income, such as Wall Street stock incentives.  Its level of personal taxation is likely too low at the high end, and too high corporately. 

Offline Muzh_1

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Re: 19 archived photos, unique portraits of citizens of the Soviet Union.
« Reply #102 on: November 08, 2013, 12:10:29 PM »

The Chinese learned from the Soviet example and avoided the issues that destroyed the Soviet Union. Market freedoms, private capital and property security overlaid with the existing political ideology and power structure.

The Chinese example serves to prove the validity of the economic basis for the downfall of the Soviet Union.

Heh, the Chinese were not very good students.

China is the next to collapse if they don't start propping up their internal economy. Sure, they produce everything under the sun. Unfortunately, a large percent of their population cannot afford what they produce.

Ever heard of Catch-22? If they prop up their internal economy (raise salaries) in order to buy their own products, then they lose the appeal from the rest of the world by not having cheap labor. So, what to do?


Offline Muzh_1

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Re: 19 archived photos, unique portraits of citizens of the Soviet Union.
« Reply #103 on: November 08, 2013, 12:18:22 PM »
One thing that people don't understand about the fall of economies, empires, countries - is the role of demographics.

From late Brezhnev years onwards, I think, USSR had an aging population - when they ceased to grow in population (have more babies than replacement rate) , then the population naturally became older.  It didn't happen all at once, of course, because it takes time for the effects to be felt, and for the number of old people to increase.

More older people (as a percentage of population) means more people were getting pensions and they needed the more expensive medical care also.  But since they were not working, the economy did not continue growing; and in monetary terms, the retired were now a "drain" on the economy  (note, I don't think this way, but economists do).

The USA and the USSR in this way, are identical - promises made to the young by politicians, were not kept when those same people got older. Now people who were told to be loyal to the company they worked for, or that Social Security would pay their bills, are not getting what they were promised.

The USSR corrected this imbalance by allowing inflation of the rouble to destroy the value of the pension - they broke the promises made to the older people.  And it is likely that this will happen (in fact, already has happened in some cases) in the USA also - the retirement plans of the "Baby Boomers" will be significantly altered.

Since the collapse, KGB (the analytic division) archives prove that the Soviet economy was in stagnation since the late 1950's, and declining since the early 1960's.  Only arms and oil prices in the 1970's kept the country from collapsing earlier.


What are you talking about? Can't you see that the above rationale fits perfectly with what the GOP is preaching?

It is the damn liberals in Washington who were responsible for the collapse of the Soviet Union and now of this country with their forced regulations and equality.  :smokin: Leave the invisible hand of free trade do its job and create a wider gap between you know who and them moochers.

See Halo, this is how things are to happen.

Offline Eduard

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Re: 19 archived photos, unique portraits of citizens of the Soviet Union.
« Reply #104 on: November 08, 2013, 12:37:29 PM »
Humanity produced one country that had the highest standard of living for it's general population in the history of the world and where people enjoyed the most freedom, rule of law and security (relatively) than anywhere in the world. That country is the USA of course. But the future doesn't look that bright IMO, not short term at least.

Offline Net_Lenka

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Re: 19 archived photos, unique portraits of citizens of the Soviet Union.
« Reply #105 on: November 08, 2013, 12:52:30 PM »
Humanity produced one country that had the highest standard of living for it's general population in the history of the world and where people enjoyed the most freedom, rule of law and security (relatively) than anywhere in the world. That country is the USA of course. But the future doesn't look that bright IMO, not short term at least.
HUmanity indeed produced only one ( thank God) country that had the highest standard of living for it's general population in the history of the world  - Standarts are such high that if everybody have the same we would have to have 5 planets like Earth
-  really proud with THAt?
And how abi that http://www.dollar-usd.ru/gosdolg.htm  :smokin:
- А Вы кто такой будете?
-Тьфу на Вас
-А фамилия Ваша как?  -Тьфу на Вас еще раз .. а фамилия моя слишком известная, чтобы я её называл

Online andrewfi

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Re: 19 archived photos, unique portraits of citizens of the Soviet Union.
« Reply #106 on: November 08, 2013, 12:54:47 PM »
In times of extreme stress a centrally planned economy is the best way to mobilise the resources of the economy - times of war are the best known situations. Most of the western powers during WW2 centralised allocation of resources, albeit not to the extent of the Soviet Union. Similarly during the depression in the US a similar centralisation under the New Deal.

In normal circumstances with a complex economy centralised planning simply can not keep up with the myriad inputs and the more complex outputs.

The US, as Halo says, can react more quickly to the type of stress now ongoing but it has to be said that the end result will likely be similar. In the US inflation is being hidden by keeping money out of circulation within the domestic economy. In the USSR the same was done by simply not having a viable market system. In the ned the inflation monster will bite!

In truth a large part of what went bad in Russia in the 90's was as a result of US advisors. It has been suggested that the policies suggested by US advisors and implemented by people who knew no better were actually a cynical element of US foreign policy. My mind is open on the matter at the moment, but I can see why people think as they do.

Chinese wealth is actually growing pretty fast. When I was over there in 2002 our teachers were proud that it was normal that newly married couples, even in the countryside, could usually expect to afford the '7 Things'. A list that included a bicycle, electric fan, tv, refrigerator and some items I don't recall. Even then when I was walking the streets I could see that people were able to afford to buy the output of Chinese manufactories in huge quantity, indeed we bought a DVD player for a price that'd have made folks in the US or Europe surprised at the price, it was so low and it was not a piece of rubbish either. Now China is the worlds largest market for cars and I know that I'd not recognise the area I lived in in Shanghai.
...everything ends always well; if it’s still bad, then it’s not the end!

Offline Muzh_1

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Re: 19 archived photos, unique portraits of citizens of the Soviet Union.
« Reply #107 on: November 08, 2013, 01:09:59 PM »

In truth a large part of what went bad in Russia in the 90's was as a result of US advisors. It has been suggested that the policies suggested by US advisors and implemented by people who knew no better were actually a cynical element of US foreign policy. My mind is open on the matter at the moment, but I can see why people think as they do.


Amen to that. Two words: Larry Summers.

Offline dearjohn

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