My time with Ms. Novosibirsk

[Ward_Cleaver]

That evening I had "Wasatch Jazz Project" scheduled on the calendar of events but we didn't make it back in time for that.  This is a weekly event throughout the summer at the Gallivan Center in downtown Salt Lake City where local musicians have created a "Excellence in the Community" project to showcase local talent.  It is a free outdoor event with a dance floor where some basic ballroom dance instruction is provided through Ballroom Utah, the dance studio my fencing school was associated wtih.  But, like I said, we didn't make it back in time for this, which is okay, because I have more than two full weeks with Ms. Novosibirsk so we can just go next week.

It's Wednesday morning and I've missed my Russian 1010 class for two days now.  But our plans for today include her attending my Russian language class together.  I thought it might be interesting for her to come with me for one day but looking back now I see that it was probably just boring for her.  But she did get catch a glimpse of a cultural shock on campus.  On our way to my class she notice a man in a dress, a transgender cross-dresser kind of a thing.  The look on her face was priceless.  It was something along the lines of "WHAT THE    IS THAT!?".  I just responded with something like, "Yeah, that's a thing here.  Especially on college campuses."  There is actually a guy at my work who went from being a man to a very tall and muscular woman with a deep voice.

After class I had a trip planned to see the Mount Timpanogos Cave.  We had a nice drive 30 minute drive to and up the canyon on my motorcycle.









Can you believe I was born and raise here in Utah and I've never been to this cave?  I would like to think that I was just waiting for someone like Ms. Novosibirsk to go with.    It was an amazing site to see.  But I couldn't help to also pay attention to the young couple going through the cave with us and their appoximately 3 year old little girl.  She was SO cute and I couldn't help to be reminded of when my two daughters were this age.  Maybe Ms. Novosibirsk and I might enjoy an adventure like this someday?    I guess only time will tell. When we finished our visit of the cave we continued our motorcycle drive up through the mountains toward Park City where tried out the Alpine Coaster, another thing I had yet to do.  I could tell that this roller coaster ride down the mountain was unlike anything Ms. Novosibirsk had experience in Russia.  We finished out our day in Park City at a Pub along the historic main street.  And you would never guess who as our waiter.  It was the dad of that cute little girl we saw in the cave.  Of course I had to tell him how cute I thought his little girl was.

[Ward_Cleaver]

It looks like I have run out of steam again and I haven't even gotten Mrs. Novosibirsk back home on the plane.  I am curious however if anyone was reading this anyway.  I realize now that my motivation to share this story was to give myself some closure and maybe some understanding of what happened.  But I think I've figured it out now and have the closure I need.

[andrewfi]

Well, I, for one, was interested in what you've been up to. In the detail you were telling the story I reckon you'd be finished at about the same time as George R. R Martin finishes Game of Thrones.

However if your head is better then that's the most important thing and you owe us nothing for the therapy.

[Guile]

I was reading the story and wanted to know what happened and why you split up.  If you want to share then don't wait another month to update, but if not just say so and we'll leave it at that.  Just don't leave a cliffhanger.

[Steveboy]

If you ask me I would say she just got bored and it's easy to see why..

Its life.. can't all be perfect matches.. I think you need some women who is probably a librarian or something like that.. I wouldn't give up though.. perseverance in the face of adversity ..

Just like myself I was homeless living in a tent by the river for a long time .. but it's all history now.. keep your chin up..

[BillyB]

Can you believe I was born and raise here in Utah and I've never been to this cave? 

Utah has many parks with amazing natural monuments and scenery. Too much to see even if one lived there.

[NS1]

I was following along, up to you if you wish to share more.
Sometimes it can benefit someone in the future.

Finding a match is difficult, sometimes we see what we like and ignore
signs that they really don't  fit our life. As we all know, eventually it won't work.
Sometimes its boring to have a perfect match, if thats even possible.
Because there is nothing to fight or disagree about.

But man it makes life enjoyable when your with the right person
Don't lose faith, someone for everyone, few people here prove that theory

[Manny]

I am curious however if anyone was reading this anyway.

Yes. 

[Dogsoldier]

I am curious however if anyone was reading this anyway.

Yes. 

I think most of us would be interested in how your story panned out.
There was a great deal of interest in the beginning of your story with Ms Novosibirsk so please share the ending if it’s not too burdensome for you.

[Ward_Cleaver]

I was reading the story and wanted to know what happened and why you split up.  If you want to share then don't wait another month to update, but if not just say so and we'll leave it at that.  Just don't leave a cliffhanger.

Well, I will probably continue this as I have time for it but it might take a while.  If you want to read that spoiler you can look here to see where the story is going.

[Guile]

We know you broke up but you didn't really say why.  I am guessing with your narcissist thread you felt that she became one?  my take is to just move on. no point dwelling on what happened. she was selfish and left you, that's all there is to it.

[Twinky]

Maybe he was narcissist thread with his "the only  beautiful one for me, the best choice" - its quite egoistic position, much out of earth. Ward_Cleaver was selfish and was not interesting for this woman as she has a lot of choices for life and without him. And Ward_Cleaver, with his egoistic position to find his "beautiful choice", starting just as trampling for her blissful future success. It is usually recommended not to pay attention to appearance and look more at the character, but this is not for men advice, of course.

[dcguyusa]

It is usually recommended not to pay attention to appearance and look more at the character, but this is not for men advice, of course.

This is one reason why foreigners search for potential mates in the FSU region.  They think they can find both "looks" and character in women there as opposed to their homeland.  I've come across many nice looking women both here and overseas.  However, their character was often something less desirable.  The less attractive ones with a more desirable character are often ignored.  I think the thinking behind that is like "if I am going to be stuck with a homely one, why not just find one locally?"   

[Twinky]

This is one reason why foreigners search for potential mates in the FSU region.

Maybe this is resonable in some way, because no one wants someone whom doesn't like, but any selfish position usually lead to failure relationships. He just wanted a nice toy and not a real woman...

Are there at westerns agencies something like John-models? No, better John-models-millionaire! I would choose someone!

[Derjk]

Hello, long time reader, resurrected poster.

A few things I've noticed:

- the age difference, 24 and 39. It's not the 15 years age difference, its the fact she's 24. A woman in her 20's has a different perspective than a woman in her 30's or 40's. Considering this guy at that time was turning 40. Carrying all the load, her waiting for you to catch up, doesn't paint the picture of you as a stallion. I'd think she would enjoy a night on the town, bars, food trucks, eateries, arts....but wait, you live in Salt Lake City....did she understand, as a 24 year old woman what Salt Lake city is about? Maybe she did, maybe she is a hardcore granola tree hugger, I don't know.

- Ignoring other posters that said going camping and hiking in Grand Canyon was a bad idea. Well did you decide it was an idea YOU wanted, did you consider what SHE would have enjoyed best? Considering that she is flying 20 something hours to U.S. of A. just to go hiking and camping seems kind of odd, unless she is a hard core nature person. I think Twinky seems to hit on this as YOU customizing the schedule for your liking than hers.

- Not preparing for the permit and having to change plans to go to another area to get a permit, and also not finding Antelope Canyon makes you look like you can't execute, and from alllllllllll these posts from members explaining that FSUW need to feel the security that you can get stuff DONE may make her uneasy. I mean I would think a woman flying to the otherside of the world to meet you for the first time, and you're pitching a tent? How about a dinner and a movie? A walk in the park?

- Frugal, maybe your living standards and your sense of cheap tricks for your classes make you feel economically savvy, but from an outsider's perspective, may be viewed as just, well, cheap. And when I say outsider, hell, from the other side of the planet, well who knows what she is thinking even though she puts on a smile.......And as Steve said maybe you need someone more bookish, like a Librarian, since you said your ex said you run on sentence in topics bores even her, and I work with a lot of engineers so I understand that joke.

Its hard to look inside and pick yourself apart, and even harder to accept what others are observing and provide suggestions, but if you can discover humility, then you won't need to dwell on the past ex-wives and Ms. Russia.

Hope you can find the happiness we all here still left wanting, are looking for.

[Guile]

what's the point of dwelling in the past. this breakup was 5 years ago. better to spend the time finding another girl.

[Contrarian]

Hello, long time reader, resurrected poster.

A few things I've noticed:

- the age difference, 24 and 39. It's not the 15 years age difference, its the fact she's 24. A woman in her 20's has a different perspective than a woman in her 30's or 40's. Considering this guy at that time was turning 40. Carrying all the load, her waiting for you to catch up, doesn't paint the picture of you as a stallion. I'd think she would enjoy a night on the town, bars, food trucks, eateries, arts....but wait, you live in Salt Lake City....did she understand, as a 24 year old woman what Salt Lake city is about? Maybe she did, maybe she is a hardcore granola tree hugger, I don't know.

- Ignoring other posters that said going camping and hiking in Grand Canyon was a bad idea. Well did you decide it was an idea YOU wanted, did you consider what SHE would have enjoyed best? Considering that she is flying 20 something hours to U.S. of A. just to go hiking and camping seems kind of odd, unless she is a hard core nature person. I think Twinky seems to hit on this as YOU customizing the schedule for your liking than hers.

- Not preparing for the permit and having to change plans to go to another area to get a permit, and also not finding Antelope Canyon makes you look like you can't execute, and from alllllllllll these posts from members explaining that FSUW need to feel the security that you can get stuff DONE may make her uneasy. I mean I would think a woman flying to the otherside of the world to meet you for the first time, and you're pitching a tent? How about a dinner and a movie? A walk in the park?

- Frugal, maybe your living standards and your sense of cheap tricks for your classes make you feel economically savvy, but from an outsider's perspective, may be viewed as just, well, cheap. And when I say outsider, hell, from the other side of the planet, well who knows what she is thinking even though she puts on a smile.......And as Steve said maybe you need someone more bookish, like a Librarian, since you said your ex said you run on sentence in topics bores even her, and I work with a lot of engineers so I understand that joke.

Its hard to look inside and pick yourself apart, and even harder to accept what others are observing and provide suggestions, but if you can discover humility, then you won't need to dwell on the past ex-wives and Ms. Russia.

Hope you can find the happiness we all here still left wanting, are looking for.

Looking at the photos in my opinion Ward is better looking then his former wife, but as we all know being somewhat cocky and being in charge can count a lot more than looks.

Not only was she too young, she looks physically larger than Ward, a smaller man.

Most women want a larger man then they are.

Ward I would suggest looking for a more petite woman, more brainy, less materialistic and certainly about 30 years old and above.

Best of luck Ward.

[2tallbill]

- Ignoring other posters that said going camping and hiking in Grand Canyon was a bad idea. Well did you decide it was an idea YOU wanted, did you consider what SHE would have enjoyed best?

I totally understand many of your comments, however many FSUW go to their
dacha in the summer. Most of these dacha's are like living in something slightly
better than a tent. They may or may not have running water, they rarely have
hot and cold running water, so for many fsuw a hiking and camping trip is
totally in their wheel house.

AND the usually totally love "the nature" even the most city raised girl.

Udachi!

Bill

[Ward_Cleaver]

Wow, so much good feedback!  I'm inspired to continue the story.  As I was writing each of these sections of our time together I really tried my best to be complete and objective about the experience.  I was really struggling and searching for answers.  I really loved her and wanted it to work.  Looking back I think that was part of the problem.  I let my heart break get in the way of making the best decisions.  But I'm doing so much better now.  So I'll do my best to respond to some of the comments here and maybe go back to writing the story.  This Chinese virus has really turned the world upside down and I find myself reflecting on things like FSU women again.

I was reading the story and wanted to know what happened and why you split up.

I'll just cut to the chase here.  She moved in with me April of 2014.  There were issues and I broke up with her in the spring of 2015.  We got back together and got married in December of 2015.  I have two daughters from a previous marriage who visit me each summer.  That next summer (2016) they moved in with me and the four of us lived together until the spring of 2017 when she moved out.  She and one of my daughters would fight and argue like two immature little brats.  I expected one of them to act more like an adult.  I struggled from the time she moved out until she asked for a divorce in the spring of 2019.  There are a LOT of very important details I have left out.  I really wanted to tell this story in its fullness in hopes that I could come to peace with loosing her but I found peace before this story even got her back on a plane to Russia on this first visit.

I am guessing with your narcissist thread you felt that she became one?  my take is to just move on. no point dwelling on what happened. she was selfish and left you, that's all there is to it.

As I've learned about narcissism I've discovered this is a very deeply rooted thing that people almost never overcome.  Still I really wish I knew then what I know now because I would have really liked to have been able to help her more than I was able.  But, I will admit, it is probably better off this way.  I am finding myself again after the years of narcissistic abuse.

Maybe he was narcissist thread with his "the only  beautiful one for me, the best choice" - its quite egoistic position, much out of earth. Ward_Cleaver was selfish and was not interesting for this woman as she has a lot of choices for life and without him. And Ward_Cleaver, with his egoistic position to find his "beautiful choice", starting just as trampling for her blissful future success. It is usually recommended not to pay attention to appearance and look more at the character, but this is not for men advice, of course.

I'm not sure what you are referring to in regards to "the only  beautiful one for me, the best choice" but I will confess that I have been "full of myself" or "much out of earth" in the past.    It has taken me quite some time to learn some of life's lessons that I should have been able to understand much sooner.  I've been a slow learner of some things in life.

- the age difference, 24 and 39. It's not the 15 years age difference, its the fact she's 24. A woman in her 20's has a different perspective than a woman in her 30's or 40's. Considering this guy at that time was turning 40. Carrying all the load, her waiting for you to catch up, doesn't paint the picture of you as a stallion. I'd think she would enjoy a night on the town, bars, food trucks, eateries, arts....but wait, you live in Salt Lake City....did she understand, as a 24 year old woman what Salt Lake city is about? Maybe she did, maybe she is a hardcore granola tree hugger, I don't know.

So much could be said about this.  So I'll just say this.  Having children was VERY important for me.  Having my children, 14 and 16 years old at the time, move in with us influenced her previously less than enthusiastic attitude about having children.

- Ignoring other posters that said going camping and hiking in Grand Canyon was a bad idea. Well did you decide it was an idea YOU wanted, did you consider what SHE would have enjoyed best? Considering that she is flying 20 something hours to U.S. of A. just to go hiking and camping seems kind of odd, unless she is a hard core nature person. I think Twinky seems to hit on this as YOU customizing the schedule for your liking than hers.

I know my stomping grounds and can offer visitors a wide range of activities depending upon the time of year.  I proposed many different activities to her and I did my best to pack as much as I could into the time we had.  She was very appreciative of this and really enjoyed here first visit to the US with me.

- Not preparing for the permit and having to change plans to go to another area to get a permit, and also not finding Antelope Canyon makes you look like you can't execute, and from alllllllllll these posts from members explaining that FSUW need to feel the security that you can get stuff DONE may make her uneasy. I mean I would think a woman flying to the otherside of the world to meet you for the first time, and you're pitching a tent? How about a dinner and a movie? A walk in the park?

Do you have any idea how much lead time is required to obtain a camping permit to the Grand Canyon?!  I've got a friend who just visited me from Germany last month.  She put in a request a year ago and still wasn't able to get one.  But that is fine, we were able to enjoy things like Angle's Landing and Kolob Canyons together.  Ms. Novosibirsk gave me only a few weeks to do my best to put this trip together for her.  And remember, there was no way of knowing for sure that she was actually going to show up.  We had never met in person.  She left her phone in the women's bathroom without telling anyone in Russia where she was going.  I took really good care of this woman.

- Frugal, maybe your living standards and your sense of cheap tricks for your classes make you feel economically savvy, but from an outsider's perspective, may be viewed as just, well, cheap. And when I say outsider, hell, from the other side of the planet, well who knows what she is thinking even though she puts on a smile.......And as Steve said maybe you need someone more bookish, like a Librarian, since you said your ex said you run on sentence in topics bores even her, and I work with a lot of engineers so I understand that joke.

Are you talking about my fencing class being taught at a tennis court?  This was not an issue of being frugal.  This was about being resourceful and taking care of my students.  I had a plan for my fencing class and this was just one step toward the end goal of that plan.

Its hard to look inside and pick yourself apart, and even harder to accept what others are observing and provide suggestions, but if you can discover humility, then you won't need to dwell on the past ex-wives and Ms. Russia.

I have my plate full in life right now and there is no room for Russian women.  The dream died when I discovered MGTOW in 2012 but I made one last try with Ms. Novosibirsk.  And I think this is one reason it hurt SO bad.  I put my everything into this relationship and trying to make it work.  It was destroying my like cancer but it was so gradual I didn't see it.

Looking at the photos in my opinion Ward is better looking then his former wife, but as we all know being somewhat cocky and being in charge can count a lot more than looks.

She may not be beautiful compared to FSU standards but I was very attracted to her and love her very much.  This ended up being a problem in and of itself.  She had always considered herself a bit of an ugly duckling.  She did some modeling in Russia, in part I believe, to help herself overcome her own feelings of not being good, or beautiful, enough.  I was supportive of this when she came here.  But, like I said, this was a problem in and of itself.  Compared to American women she was a sex bomb.  This was like giving and unlimited supply of candy to that kid who's parents never allowed them to eat anything sweet.  It was like trying to fill a black hole.  This is part of the narcissism.  Nacisists don't actually believe they are good enough so they are always looking for people to prop them up and cover up the truth they don't want to see.

Not only was she too young, she looks physically larger than Ward, a smaller man.

  I am 6' and she was 5'9".  This is a good height for me.  I actually prefer taller women (5'9" - 6').

Ward I would suggest looking for a more petite woman, more brainy, less materialistic and certainly about 30 years old and above.

I would actually consider her well educated and hard working.  She had a degree in accounting and earned her CPA while we were together.  I've always valued these qualities in a woman but am now starting to see more value in kindness, patience, obedience, compassion and empathy.

[Contrarian]

Ward,

Just a quick glance at the photo and she looked larger than you, perhaps it was the angle.

You didn’t respond to my recommendation of about 30 years old and older, why not?

You mentioned more important qualities— bingo!!

I can assure you that no matter a woman’s outside looks, her maturity and inner beauty are far more important!

She called Russia “a shithole country”? Without a doubt you were just a mule to her.

[Ward_Cleaver]

You didn’t respond to my recommendation of about 30 years old and older, why not?

She will be turning 31 this summer.  I would love to be in a relationship with the right person around that age.  Age is only important to me because I would still really like to have a family if that is still in the cards for me.  I've found myself browsing FSU dating websites and looking at tall women in their 30's who express an interest in children and family.  I'm just not sure if it makes sense to start anything with the Chinese virus shutting down the world.

[Contrarian]

You didn’t respond to my recommendation of about 30 years old and older, why not?

She will be turning 31 this summer.  I would love to be in a relationship with the right person around that age.  Age is only important to me because I would still really like to have a family if that is still in the cards for me.  I've found myself browsing FSU dating websites and looking at tall women in their 30's who express an interest in children and family.  I'm just not sure if it makes sense to start anything with the Chinese virus shutting down the world.

Well I definitely wish you the best of luck.

Someday if I fully retire I might live over there. That’s the only way to do it IMO. I hate seeing men getting taken advantage of. Some of those women are really good at hiding their true intentions and nature. If a guy could afford to live with a woman at least three months over there, he’s got a better chance even then of finding out.

The European guys have a definite advantage.

[Guile]

Please don't call it the "Chinese virus" like Trump does!    There are more cases in the USA than China now unfortunately...

As for your ex, just move on.  You say she's a narcissist but don't say if that was the cause of the breakup.  no point dwelling

[Steveboy]

You didn’t respond to my recommendation of about 30 years old and older, why not?

She will be turning 31 this summer.  I would love to be in a relationship with the right person around that age.  Age is only important to me because I would still really like to have a family if that is still in the cards for me.  I've found myself browsing FSU dating websites and looking at tall women in their 30's who express an interest in children and family.  I'm just not sure if it makes sense to start anything with the Chinese virus shutting down the world.

Here you go.. if you sign up I will give you 12 months membership free on me.. just let me know your ID number if your interested..

https://bridesandlovers.com/women-russian-brides-height-tall

[BillyB]

https://bridesandlovers.com/women-russian-brides-height-tall

Steveboy, many of those girls are tall approaching 7 feet. Some are under 100lbs. Can't be right. Some of those girls definitely look short. May want to have them revise their profiles.