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Author Topic: Romania was part of the Former Soviet Union, was it not?  (Read 3578 times)

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Online andrewfi

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Romania was part of the Former Soviet Union, was it not?
« on: June 24, 2013, 09:07:53 AM »
... Romania was part of the Former Soviet Union, was it not?

Anteros, it is REALLY important that you don't go round making mistakes like the one above when dealing with anyone who knows this stuff, particularly if it is in the presence of a person who you are trying to make some kind of relationship with. If, as you did here, you then try to justify your error then you simply look like something you might not want to seem to be - a little man with little generosity of spirit.

Romania was never a part of the Soviet Union but was for many years very heavily influenced from Moscow. It is likely that you will project a negative impression if you make a contrary suggestion.

To emphasise the issues that may arise when one goes round making inaccurate and insensitive comments of this type, if one mentions to Estonians that Estonia was a part of the Soviet Union one will often get an accurate and quite stormy response: Estonia was an independent country that was occupied illegally by the Soviets and thus never legitmately a part of the USSR.

Anteros, when you make the choice to actually suit action to word I'd strongly  recommend doing some reading of history and culture so that you do not embarrass yourself and cut short what might otherwise have been a productive meeting.

AvHdB, you might want to think about the words you use. When you talk to your interlocutors are you similarly careless?
Firstly, Romania was never 'within' the USSR and could not be a 'pariah' as it was not part of the group. Secondly, to most English users the word 'pariah' carries significant negative connotations that would not, in this case be justified by the facts.
It might be true to say that Romania was not held in high esteem by some people within the USSR but that is a very different matter - see the difference?
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Offline Manny

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Re: Romania was part of the Former Soviet Union, was it not?
« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2013, 09:30:46 AM »
Estonia was an independent country that was occupied illegally by the Soviets and thus never legitmately a part of the USSR.

It wasn't illegal in Russia. It was only deemed illegal by other places.

Online AvHdB

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Re: Romania was part of the Former Soviet Union, was it not?
« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2013, 09:37:08 AM »
Romania faced a stigma from Moscow after the 2nd World War, perhaps more so other than other countries that were occupied by Soviet Union.

Since The Soviet Union dominated the policy of Romania until the declaration of freedom in 1989 they were well and truly with in the sphere of influence of The Soviet Bloc. Only in the beginning of the regime of Ceaușescu did Romania become slightly more independent.  And yes pariah is a strong word but there were those in The Moscow Kremlin who found nothing worthwhile in Romania except the natural resources. They did not speak a Slavic language, the country looked westward, they actively fought for the Reich except at the very end of the 2nd World War.

Andrew you might wish to interpert the reality and facts as see fit but you should not be so quick to rewrite history to suit your ego.
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Offline Anteros

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Re: Romania was part of the Former Soviet Union, was it not?
« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2013, 10:10:49 AM »
Paul and co, congratulations!

Anteros, Romania was almost a pariah state within the Soviet Union, the country largely sided with Germany during the 2nd World War. Further Romania speaks a Romantic language not a Slavic language.

Old news, Av.  Animosity still exists today between Romania and Ukraine.  It was Romanian troops who initially captured the city of Odessa during WWII.

If you would kindly go back and read what I wrote (and especially look at the link I provided), you would notice that I wrote that Romania was a Satellite state of the Soviet Union.  After Stalin gained control of Eastern Europe at the end of WWII, he installed puppet coalition governments.  Those government members who were not favorable to the Soviets (ie for the most part the Russians, who were the ruling class of the Soviets), were liquidated (a nice euphemism for murdered).  The Soviets vetted and approved senior members of the Politburo, the Police and the Media.  The GDR (East Germany) was also never technically part of the Soviet Union, yet who was the head of the  East German Secret Police (the Stasi)??  None other than Vladimir Putin.

Those who think that Eastern Bloc countries were not part of the Soviet Empire, need only to read and study the 1956 uprising in Hungary.  Shortly after the Hungarians gained control of their own country, Soviet tanks and troops rolled into Budapest and other parts of Hungary and quickly wrested control back.
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Offline Anteros

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Re: Romania was part of the Former Soviet Union, was it not?
« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2013, 10:12:25 AM »
Andy, I would argue WWII history with you, and the history of the Former Soviet Union, if I thought I was arguing with a rational man who could admit when he was wrong.

Go back and read what I wrote Andrew.  Do you not know the definition of a Satellite state?  Do you not know that at the end of WWII, Stalin had complete control over Eastern Europe and could install any puppet government that he wished?

Your dumb statement about Estonia not being a member of the Soviet Union shows how illogical and haphazard your knowledge really is.  As Manny said, So?? 

We all know from your posts about A Date how illogical and bizarre your arguments become when you try to save face, so I will prolly just leave it at that. 
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Offline TomT

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Re: Romania was part of the Former Soviet Union, was it not?
« Reply #5 on: June 24, 2013, 10:22:38 AM »
... Romania was part of the Former Soviet Union, was it not?

These were the member states of the Warsaw Pact: Albania, Bulgaria, Czechoslovakia, East Germany, Hungary, Poland, Romania and the Soviet Union. It wouldn't be surprising that the average American man on the street might confuse them with members of the Former Soviet Union. For someone who has been reading/posting on these forums for years to do so, however, displays colossal ignorance.

Everyone who believes that Romania is/was part of the Former Soviet Union ought to register for remedial FSU History 095. 
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Offline Anteros

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Re: Romania was part of the Former Soviet Union, was it not?
« Reply #6 on: June 24, 2013, 10:31:19 AM »
... Romania was part of the Former Soviet Union, was it not?

These were the member states of the Warsaw Pact: Albania, Bulgaria, Czechoslovakia, East Germany, Hungary, Poland, Romania and the Soviet Union. It wouldn't be surprising that the average American man on the street might confuse them with members of the Former Soviet Union. For someone who has been reading/posting on these forums for years to do so, however, displays colossal ignorance.

Everyone who believes that Romania is/was part of the Former Soviet Union ought to register for remedial FSU History 095.

It's already been extensively clarified for you above.  Are you getting Alzheimer's and can no longer read and comprehend what was wrote?
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Offline TomT

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Re: Romania was part of the Former Soviet Union, was it not?
« Reply #7 on: June 24, 2013, 10:35:47 AM »
Are you getting Alzheimer's and can no longer read and comprehend what was wrote [written]?

My comprehension is just fine; our resident expert on Soviet history doesn't know the difference between the members of the Warsaw Pact and the members of the FSU.

After your BS is pointed out, you typically tell people to go back and read what you wrote... so here ya go:

... Romania was part of the Former Soviet Union, was it not?
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Offline Anteros

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Re: Romania was part of the Former Soviet Union, was it not?
« Reply #8 on: June 24, 2013, 10:38:03 AM »
Russia, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Georgia, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Moldova, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, Ukraine, Uzbekistan, Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania.

Technically speaking this is correct, however I was including the Satellite states, which comprised the "Soviet Empire".

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Offline Anteros

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Re: Romania was part of the Former Soviet Union, was it not?
« Reply #9 on: June 24, 2013, 10:42:40 AM »
Are you getting Alzheimer's and can no longer read and comprehend what was wrote?

My comprehension is just fine; our resident expert on Soviet history doesn't know the difference between the members of the Warsaw Pact and the members of the FSU.

I already admitted that you were correct, and I clarified my position on this issue.  I misspoke, I was wrong, mea culpa I am human.  Is that good enough for you??  It is pretty obvious to those who have studied the issue extensively, that the name and definition of the Soviet Union is/was mostly semantic.  Please go to Hungary and tell them that they were not ruled by the Soviet Union, and see what kind of reaction you get!!
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Offline TomT

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Re: Romania was part of the Former Soviet Union, was it not?
« Reply #10 on: June 24, 2013, 10:57:33 AM »
I suppose that the name and the definition of the United States is mostly semantic as well. The number of states in the union isn't cast in stone; it's only a rough guideline, subject to redneck secession at any time. 
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Offline Vinnvinny

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Re: Romania was part of the Former Soviet Union, was it not?
« Reply #11 on: June 24, 2013, 11:01:21 AM »
See what ya did Tom? Another potentially excellent and informative thread ruined by unnecessary trolling. If Romania is ‘close enough’ for Paul to be a FSU country then its close enough for Ant. Simples.

From experience in Czech Republic, Slovakia and Hungary (equally as close to the FSU as Romania) I believe there is a world of difference if I compare it to most parts of Ukraine I have visited. I would think that would be magnified even greater if you were to compare it to the majority of Russia. Having said that Paul, it is refreshing to hear about your family’s successful transition. It's nice to read something positive here.

Offline Paul

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Re: Romania was part of the Former Soviet Union, was it not?
« Reply #12 on: June 24, 2013, 12:23:55 PM »
From experience in Czech Republic, Slovakia and Hungary (equally as close to the FSU as Romania) I believe there is a world of difference if I compare it to most parts of Ukraine I have visited. I would think that would be magnified even greater if you were to compare it to the majority of Russia.

Of course. By "close enough" I was simply referring to being a guy from the west who is married to a woman from that part of the world.

See what ya did Tom? Another potentially excellent and informative thread ruined by unnecessary trolling. If Romania is ‘close enough’ for Paul to be a FSU country then its close enough for Ant. Simples.

Both Tom and Andrew made very good points in dealing with Ant's mistakes and it was Ant who chose to drag things out over umpteen posts instead of just saying something like "I made a mistake and have some more learning to do" from the very beginning, it would have been the end of the issue.

Offline Vinnvinny

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Re: Romania was part of the Former Soviet Union, was it not?
« Reply #13 on: June 24, 2013, 12:48:10 PM »
Ooops, wrong thread.  tiphat

Offline Anteros

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Re: Romania was part of the Former Soviet Union, was it not?
« Reply #14 on: June 24, 2013, 04:05:17 PM »
From experience in Czech Republic, Slovakia and Hungary (equally as close to the FSU as Romania) I believe there is a world of difference if I compare it to most parts of Ukraine I have visited. I would think that would be magnified even greater if you were to compare it to the majority of Russia.

Of course. By "close enough" I was simply referring to being a guy from the west who is married to a woman from that part of the world.

See what ya did Tom? Another potentially excellent and informative thread ruined by unnecessary trolling. If Romania is ‘close enough’ for Paul to be a FSU country then its close enough for Ant. Simples.

Both Tom and Andrew made very good points in dealing with Ant's mistakes and it was Ant who chose to drag things out over umpteen posts instead of just saying something like "I made a mistake and have some more learning to do" from the very beginning, it would have been the end of the issue.[/b]

LMFAO peewee!!   :ROFL:  I realize you're not an educated man by your decision to piggy back on Andy and tinker tom's inane statements and inability to follow an educated argument, so let's clarify it for you:

1.  My first statement was phrased as a question (Romania was part of the Soviet Union, was it not?)so that a literate person could tell I was not claiming to be the final authority, in a technical way.

2.  Key part here PeeWee, try to follow:  My next statement was Either way, ...

Now I made the statement as an olive branch to you, which I regret.  I don't think it matters if you found your wife in Ukraine, Russia, or a Satellite state of the FSU, also previously known as the Eastern Bloc.

The Soviet Union was a totalitarian Political form of government.  If you would like to appear the least bit educated, perhaps you should preface your statement about Romania NOT being a part of the Soviet Union, with the delineation of, at least not in a linguistic or cultural sense.

In a political sense, which is really mostly all that matters when dealing with a totalitarian regime, it was indeed an extended part of the Soviet Union, by being a Satellite state with a puppet government.

  a)  Political control of Romania by the Stalinists of the Soviet Union--yes.
  b)  Control of the Police and Secret Police by the Soviet Union--yes.
  c)  Elimination of any and all opponents (tortured, starved, murdered)--yes.
  d)  Total control of the media--yes.

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Offline Anteros

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Re: Romania was part of the Former Soviet Union, was it not?
« Reply #15 on: June 24, 2013, 04:11:00 PM »
Romania at the end of WWII, firmly under control of the Soviet Union:


Early years[edit]

The early years of Communist rule in Romania were marked by repeated changes of course and by numerous arrests and imprisonments as factions contended for dominance. The country's resources were also drained by the Soviet's SovRom agreements, which facilitated shipping of Romanian goods to the Soviet Union at nominal prices. In all ministries there were Soviet "advisers" who reported directly to Moscow and held the real decision-making powers. All walks of life were infiltrated by agents and informers of the secret police.

In 1948, the earlier agrarian reform was reversed, replaced by a move toward collective farming. This resulted in forced collectivization, since wealthier peasants generally did not want to give up their land voluntarily[citation needed] and had to be "convinced" by beatings, intimidation, arrests and deportations.[citation needed]

On 11 June 1948, all banks and large businesses were nationalized.

In the Communist leadership, there appear to have been three important factions, all of them Stalinist, differentiated more by their respective personal histories than by any deep political or philosophical differences:
1.The "Muscovites", notably Ana Pauker and Vasile Luca, had spent the war in Moscow.
2.The "Prison Communists", notably Gheorghe Gheorghiu-Dej, had been imprisoned during the war.
3.The somewhat less firmly Stalinist "Secretariat Communists", notably Lucreţiu Pătrăşcanu had made it through the Antonescu years by hiding within Romania and had participated in the broad governments immediately after King Michael's 1944 coup.

Ultimately, with Joseph Stalin's backing, and probably due in part to the anti-Semitic[dubious – discuss] policies of late Stalinism (Pauker was Jewish), Gheorghiu-Dej and the "Prison Communists" won out. Pauker was purged from the party (along with 192,000 other party members); Pătrăşcanu was executed after a show trial.


Source:  Wikipedia
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Online andrewfi

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Re: Romania was part of the Former Soviet Union, was it not?
« Reply #16 on: June 24, 2013, 04:22:27 PM »
AvHdB, I understand that English is not your first language so I commend you to go re-read what I wrote, if necessary with the aid of a dictionary - you will find your understanding is clarified. I did not rewrite history, you merely used words that you did not comprehend. ;)

Manny, I guess that it is down to the people in a country occupied (and that fuzzy thing called international law) to decide the legality of an occupation. I doubt that the inhabitants of Estonia, a country that had won its independence by treaty with Russia thought that what happened to their country was legal. In addition, under the Stimson Doctrine, the UK, USA and other countries also held the annexation to be illegal, in fact they continued to recognise exiled representatives of the Estonian government diplomatically as government in exile. Wikipedia helps here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estonian_Soviet_Socialist_Republic
Please note there is a difference between recognising a thing (in this case an independent Estonia) as a practical point and another to recognise it as a legal point.

Anteros, yes, you know how to copy/paste, that's great! Now you just need to be able to understand what you copy/pasted and provide some kind of context. Baby steps mate, baby steps. :)

Anyhow, Romania was never annexed by the Soviets and never became a part of the Soviet Union.
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Offline Anteros

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Re: Romania was part of the Former Soviet Union, was it not?
« Reply #17 on: June 24, 2013, 04:32:23 PM »
AvHdB, I understand that English is not your first language so I commend you to go re-read what I wrote, if necessary with the aid of a dictionary - you will find your understanding is clarified. I did not rewrite history, you merely used words that you did not comprehend. ;)

Manny, I guess that it is down to the people in a country occupied (and that fuzzy thing called international law) to decide the legality of an occupation. I doubt that the inhabitants of Estonia, a country that had won its independence by treaty with Russia thought that what happened to their country was legal. In addition, under the Stimson Doctrine, the UK, USA and other countries also held the annexation to be illegal, in fact they continued to recognise exiled representatives of the Estonian government diplomatically as government in exile. Wikipedia helps here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estonian_Soviet_Socialist_Republic
Please note there is a difference between recognising a thing (in this case an independent Estonia) as a practical point and another to recognise it as a legal point.

Anteros, yes, you know how to copy/paste, that's great! Now you just need to be able to understand what you copy/pasted and provide some kind of context. Baby steps mate, baby steps. :)

Anyhow, Romania was never annexed by the Soviets and never became a part of the Soviet Union.

Let's provide some context which you might understand.  When the Soviets took over Romania in August of 1944, which they most certainly did, they not only kicked some ass to the point that the dumb fook's (like you) had to crawl to the hospital a few days later, they sent most of them to the morgue in body bags.  Capiche mate??
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Offline Paul

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Re: Romania was part of the Former Soviet Union, was it not?
« Reply #18 on: June 24, 2013, 04:39:02 PM »
Over the years I have read many a horror story about a FSUW coming to her husband's country and having trouble with x, y, and z. I don't get it. This might seem like boasting but it isn't, it is meant to maybe put some minds at ease. My wife is not technically a FSUW but it shouldn't matter, Romania is close enough. So far she has:

Come to the U.S. without experiencing significant culture shock, in fact she has experienced hardly any at all.

She has gotten her driver's license and is a very cautious driver, I worry more about other drivers running into her than I do her running into them.

She has been here less than a year and gotten a decent job with one of our local county offices... no scrubbing toilets.

She has no trouble with money, how credit works, etc.

Her son isn't a spoiled brat and has had hardly any trouble adjusting to being here. When my stepson came here his English was very poor but it has since improved so much that people comment on it (the improvement) often. Even with my stepson's language barrier his teacher considered him to be in the top 5% of her class, on his last day of school he was voted best at math and most respectful by his classmates. My stepson is 12 and an awesome kid  :).

============

If I think of any more I'll add them. I think I'm far from being alone in experiencing hardly any problems, maybe some other members can add things that they were expecting to be difficult but weren't.

Not sure why you don't think a woman from Romania is not technically an FSUW.  Romania was part of the Former Soviet Union, was it not? 

Phrased as a question, for the twits who cannot read, that means I did not claim to be the final authority.

Either way congratulations on your success.   :bow:

Now try to pay it forward more often...

 

Either way, which I've bolded here, was conveniently left out of tinker tot's and Andy's inane arguments.  Paul if you would read more carefully instead of jumping to conclusions based on your dumb alliance, you might be able to comprehend things better.

My comprehension is perfectly fine, Ant. Yes you used "either way" in your first post in this thread but then you went on, like a lunatic I might add, to try and prove Tom wrong  :chuckle: I didn't reply to anything you said until them.

These were the member states of the Warsaw Pact: Albania, Bulgaria, Czechoslovakia, East Germany, Hungary, Poland, Romania and the Soviet Union. It wouldn't be surprising that the average American man on the street might confuse them with members of the Former Soviet Union. For someone who has been reading/posting on these forums for years to do so, however, displays colossal ignorance.

 :thumbsup:

Offline Anteros

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Re: Romania was part of the Former Soviet Union, was it not?
« Reply #19 on: June 24, 2013, 05:01:45 PM »
Over the years I have read many a horror story about a FSUW coming to her husband's country and having trouble with x, y, and z. I don't get it. This might seem like boasting but it isn't, it is meant to maybe put some minds at ease. My wife is not technically a FSUW but it shouldn't matter, Romania is close enough. So far she has:

Come to the U.S. without experiencing significant culture shock, in fact she has experienced hardly any at all.

She has gotten her driver's license and is a very cautious driver, I worry more about other drivers running into her than I do her running into them.

She has been here less than a year and gotten a decent job with one of our local county offices... no scrubbing toilets.

She has no trouble with money, how credit works, etc.

Her son isn't a spoiled brat and has had hardly any trouble adjusting to being here. When my stepson came here his English was very poor but it has since improved so much that people comment on it (the improvement) often. Even with my stepson's language barrier his teacher considered him to be in the top 5% of her class, on his last day of school he was voted best at math and most respectful by his classmates. My stepson is 12 and an awesome kid  :).

============

If I think of any more I'll add them. I think I'm far from being alone in experiencing hardly any problems, maybe some other members can add things that they were expecting to be difficult but weren't.

Not sure why you don't think a woman from Romania is not technically an FSUW.  Romania was part of the Former Soviet Union, was it not? 

Phrased as a question, for the twits who cannot read, that means I did not claim to be the final authority.

Either way congratulations on your success.   :bow:

Now try to pay it forward more often...

 

Either way, which I've bolded here, was conveniently left out of tinker tot's and Andy's inane arguments.  Paul if you would read more carefully instead of jumping to conclusions based on your dumb alliance, you might be able to comprehend things better.

My comprehension is perfectly fine, Ant. Yes you used "either way" in your first post in this thread but then you went on, like a lunatic I might add, to try and prove Tom wrong  :chuckle: I didn't reply to anything you said until them.



More attempts at character assassination, huh peewee?  You will never grow up will you?  In fact I agreed with Tom, that technically, Romania was not a member of the Soviet Union per se, but was indeed a Satellite state. 

P.  If you don't like to have arguments with those whose intellect and education far surpass your own, then don't even bother.  Resorting to calling someone a lunatic because they won't bow down to your totalitarian opinions....good one.

have a nice day!   tiphat

Your hero,
Anteros.
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Offline Paul

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Re: Romania was part of the Former Soviet Union, was it not?
« Reply #20 on: June 24, 2013, 05:10:25 PM »
More attempts at character assassination, huh peewee?  You will never grow up will you?  In fact I agreed with Tom, that technically, Romania was not a member of the Soviet Union per se, but was indeed a Satellite state. 

P.  If you don't like to have arguments with those whose intellect and education far surpass your own, then don't even bother.  Resorting to calling someone a lunatic because they won't bow down to your totalitarian opinions....good one.

have a nice day!   tiphat

Your stooge,
Anteros.

Ant, I called you a lunatic because you are one. The next time Tom corrects you on anything just admit that you were wrong and move on, it's that simple.

Offline Anteros

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Re: Romania was part of the Former Soviet Union, was it not?
« Reply #21 on: June 24, 2013, 05:17:22 PM »
More attempts at character assassination, huh peewee?  You will never grow up will you?  In fact I agreed with Tom, that technically, Romania was not a member of the Soviet Union per se, but was indeed a Satellite state. 

P.  If you don't like to have arguments with those whose intellect and education far surpass your own, then don't even bother.  Resorting to calling someone a lunatic because they won't bow down to your totalitarian opinions....good one.

have a nice day!   tiphat

Your best hero,
Anteros.

Anteros, I called you a lunatic because I am a sore loser and uneducated.  I had no clue what a Satellite state was, nor that the Soviet Union set up a puppet government totally controlled by them until the collapse of 1989.  I bow down to your superior intellect!!   :bow:

The next time tinker tot tries to correct you on anything just ignore him, we both know that he suffers from OCD and can never admit when he made a mistake with his reading comprehension.  You were correct in the first place as you did specify Either way and it was extremely tacky of toddler tom to start a silly argument.

I agree with you PeeWee, you and your tinker toddler friend are both sore losers. 
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Offline Paul

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Re: Romania was part of the Former Soviet Union, was it not?
« Reply #22 on: June 24, 2013, 05:39:21 PM »
More attempts at character assassination, huh peewee?  You will never grow up will you?  In fact I agreed with Tom, that technically, Romania was not a member of the Soviet Union per se, but was indeed a Satellite state. 

P.  If you don't like to have arguments with those whose intellect and education far surpass your own, then don't even bother.  Resorting to calling someone a lunatic because they won't bow down to your totalitarian opinions....good one.

have a nice day!   tiphat

Your hemorrhoid,
Anteros.

Ant, I called you a lunatic because you are one. The next time Tom corrects you on anything just admit that you were wrong and move on, it's that simple.

I agree with you PeeWee, you and your tinker toddler friend are both sore losers.

Ant, I would have tons more respect for you if you could just admit that you screwed up whenever you do, as we all do from time to time.

Offline TomT

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Re: Romania was part of the Former Soviet Union, was it not?
« Reply #23 on: June 24, 2013, 06:06:04 PM »
I doubt that ANT ever heard of the Warsaw Pact until I brought it up, which is remarkable for someone who claims to be knowledgeable about European history.
"Get away from the keyboard little man. I know where you live." (Message left in my facebook mailbox by our resident psychopath.)

Offline TomT

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Re: Romania was part of the Former Soviet Union, was it not?
« Reply #24 on: June 24, 2013, 06:30:28 PM »
Anteros, I called you a lunatic because I am a sore loser and uneducated.  I had no clue what a Satellite state was, nor that the Soviet Union set up a puppet government totally controlled by them until the collapse of 1989.  I bow down to your superior intellect!!   :bow:

The next time tinker tot tries to correct you on anything just ignore him, we both know that he suffers from OCD and can never admit when he made a mistake with his reading comprehension.  You were correct in the first place as you did specify Either way and it was extremely tacky of toddler tom to start a silly argument.

Moderator,

I think that the quote above should be allowed to stand with a note that it was altered by ANT.
"Get away from the keyboard little man. I know where you live." (Message left in my facebook mailbox by our resident psychopath.)


 

 

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