Chinese Women: The New Ukraine?

[Lord of the Dance]

They also tend  to have a little more hair  where many Eastern European women don't ..

Nothing the matter with a bush, so long as it ain't so long! 

Amanda Palmer - 'Map of Tasmania'

[Guile]

If you want a Chinese woman just go to California.  Over a million there and they speak English if educated in the states.

heck the last time I was in UCLA half the campus was Asian.  Got some friends in LA, yellow fever is hot there.  Facebook founder Mark Z has a Chinese wife.

[Guile]

I didn't read the warning upthread

[Markje]

White is the prize.

I am surprised that someone who has been to China would post as such...

Why? It is mostly true.

White skinned people are considered upper-class because it isn't tanned by the sun (manual labour). Therefore European guys with White skin are definately considered upper-class and therefore prized.

[AvHdB]

Each culture will its own vision of an ideal beauty.

In North America there was during the 1890's to the 1st World War the Gibson Girl, latter there was In the 2nd world postwar period the beauty was measured against women such as M. Monroe and sort of ending with B. Shields. Today many models are extremely thin, though there is a fair amount of push back. In England during the 2nd WWII period there was Twiggy and K. Moss.

The goal posts move.

[Manny]

White is the prize.

I am surprised that someone who has been to China would post as such...

Why? It is mostly true.

White skinned people are considered upper-class because it isn't tanned by the sun (manual labour). Therefore European guys with White skin are definately considered upper-class and therefore prized.

Exactly what I meant. Why in China we see girls walking around with parasols and umbrellas to stay as white as possible. Its not a big jump from there to see why some Chinese guys are wife hunting in the FSU.

However, rather than discuss like a normal person, Moby went into knee-jerk Liberal faux offence and PC mode. His lot do that.

Perhaps Moby can discuss with some Chinese their thoughts on this with his advanced Mandarin. I expect he is fluent in Cantonese as well. Whatever the subject, Moby claims to either speak the language and/or have a great many friends from there and was usually there only last week. I'm sure he has Xi Jinping in his address book.

[Guile]

As pointed out the Chinese culture doesn't embrace tanning like the west.  You won't see them lying on the beach all day like in the Cote d'azure or some resort by the Med sea.

As I speak fluent Cantonese and Mandarin I'm sure moby can demonstrate his excellent command to me:  "Lei sik m sik giu gai chow fun?".. that means "can you order some chicken fried noodles?!   

moby couldn't even ask for tea in Chinese at his local Hakkasan.

Asian and western ideals of beauty are on opposite spectrums.  Chinese girls are slim and don't work out. No curves, nothing. Koreans even more sharp and angular in their facial features. 

[msmoby]

Exactly what I meant. Why in China we see girls walking around with parasols and umbrellas to stay as white as possible. Its not a big jump from there to see why some Chinese guys are wife hunting in the FSU.

However, rather than discuss like a normal person, Moby went into knee-jerk Liberal faux offence and PC mode. His lot do that.

I apologise.

Given your normal attitude to ethnic minorities - one could excuse the assumption.  NOTHING to do with my right of centre politics politically ( economic perspective) - This is your continued fibbing mantra

Perhaps Moby can discuss with some Chinese their thoughts on this with his advanced Mandarin. I expect he is fluent in Cantonese as well. Whatever the subject, Moby claims to either speak the language and/or have a great many friends from there and was usually there only last week. I'm sure he has Xi Jinping in his address book.

My experience of China - Hong Kong - WAY predates yours and you ain't the only member going to mainland China / doing biz ..

I don't boast of my contacts in govt as when they don't listen to one's 'campaigns'  - it looks like they don't regard one as serious.....

[Manny]

I apologise.

Hang out the flags.

Given your normal attitude to ethnic minorities - one could excuse the assumption. 

Not really.

NOTHING to do with my right of centre

We dont care how you arrange your appendage.

politics politically ( economic perspective) -

Ahh politically right of centre? You? About as right of centre as Michael Foot I'd say.

This is your continued fibbing mantra

Ahh the Moby we know and love. Personal and off topic barbs. Had to balance out that apology I suppose........

My experience of China - Hong Kong - WAY predates yours and you ain't the only member going to mainland China / doing biz ..

You'll note I predicted above you'd say similar. If you happen to be in Hong Kong, Dongguan, Guangdong or Guangzhou in October, I'll buy you a cup of tea. 

I don't boast of my contacts in govt as when they don't listen to one's 'campaigns'  - it looks like they don't regard one as serious.....

Should I guess what this blathering is or who its about? Is this me? Is this Russian gov or UK gov? I know people in both. Not to name drop but I was with Johnny Mercer last night, but I digress.

Allow me to remind you Moby, the topic here is: Chinese Women: The New Ukraine?

[Guile]

I know Cantonese Chinese, better..

Perhaps you should read some Clavell to understand how many Chinese view us....'Barbarians'...

Exactly how much Cantonese do you know?  "lei sik m sik yei ah, lei pok gai."  You can't even order tea and egg tarts for dim sum.

Clavell's Tai pan was written 60 years ago old man.  About as old as as your antiquated thinking regarding Asians.

[msmoby]

Exactly how much Cantonese do you know?  "lei sik m sik yei ah, lei pok gai."  You can't even order tea and egg tarts for dim sum.

Sting23,

Unlike you - I'm not ethnically Chinese and - of course - you know far more.. 

Last time I checked this was Russian Ukrainian adventures and I CERTAINLY know more about these places than you or Manny

Clavell's Tai pan was written 60 years ago old man.  About as old as as your antiquated thinking regarding Asians.

The prevailing attitude to 'barbarians' by the 'civilised people' is no longer ? 

Look, sting23 - before you were a twinkle in ma and pa's eyes I was experiencing what you think I wasn't ... 

This is your continued fibbing mantra

 

Ahh politically right of centre? You? About as right of centre as Michael Foot I'd say.

Who I've met in real life - over dinner  - with Jeremy Clarkson at Anne Robinson's house ...  would you say Clarkson was a 'leftie' ?   


It is YOU that constantly repeats my voting habits - even though I've only ever voted Tory ... So, who's the fibber ? 

You'll note I predicted above you'd say similar. If you happen to be in Hong Kong, Dongguan, Guangdong or Guangzhou in October, I'll buy you a cup of tea. 

You just recalled what I've posted or told you ... and I think I'll be in Shenzhen around that time - depends on when I take delivery of a batch of pre-production prototypes ( hopefully next week)   I'd love to have a cup o tea with you - you can meet a couple of Russians I'll be with - they read your forum with interest

 

I don't boast of my contacts in govt as when they don't listen to one's 'campaigns'  - it looks like they don't regard one as serious.....

Should I guess what this blathering is or who its about? Is this me? Is this Russian gov or UK gov? I know people in both. Not to name drop but I was with Johnny Mercer last night, but I digress.

1/ I had to look up Johnny Mercer

2/ I refer to your campaign re easier RU VISAs in the UK for those married to RU nationals - but we both knew that

Allow me to remind you Moby, the topic here is: Chinese Women: The New Ukraine?

Have you ever had a Chinese g/f ?

[yankee]

Having lived in Hong Kong during the 1980's I find it humorous reading "our" china experts!

[msmoby]

Having lived in Hong Kong during the 1980's

You should have introduced yourself..

Care to share where you opinion diverges?

[Manny]

The celebrity chat has been moved. .

http://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php?topic=27327.0

[AvHdB]

Having lived in Hong Kong during the 1980's

You should have introduced yourself..

Care to share where you opinion diverges?

My suspicion is with over 1,000 posts Yankee does not need to introduce himself. Moby you are almost as bad as your new best boyfriend Mr. Decepetion. Please try to be a little less argybargy.

[Scampo]

As a fairly long term Asia resident, I'll add my tuppence.

Mainland and un-westernised Chinese girls: in the main, don't go there.  The gender imbalance caused by the one child policy means females are holding all the dating power.  Women from larger cities tend to be transactional.  Women from smaller cities can be a better bet, but family traditions mean you'll be expected to support the extended family forever, and the demands will never cease. The cultural incompatibilities are a minefield.  They don't pick up English well.  Gold digger attitudes are rife.  Many Chinese men are looking abroad to Vietnam and so on, as they are finding the odds are stacked against them back home. YMMV but it's a roulette and the house odds are working against a happy union.

Mainland but westernised Chinese girls - as in, live in PRC but have lived and been educated abroad.  Can be fine but your odds are no better than looking for a westernised Asian at home.  Why not just go to Vancouver or your nearest Chinese diaspora hotspot to look?  You'll also get access to Hong Kong and Hainanese background girls.

Taiwanese girls - I really like Taiwan and Taiwanese culture.  It's highly compatible with Western mores, and some of the coolest people I've ever met are from Taiwan.  Their women are pretty.  They all speak English.  Family is still important but it's less transactional.  Meeting one online may hard.  I am sure there are normal dating websites.  Taipei is a damned cool place to spend time anyway.

Singapore and Hong Kong girls - both good cultures to marry into, westernised, many are Christian if that's important to you.  A little bit entitled, which isn't necessarily a bad thing.  These are wealthy countries and the girls don't have a gold-digger attitude - but they will only choose a man with wealth in the first place.  It's a given.  Hong Kong women tend to be prettier and curvier.  Singapore women tend to have flat feet and walk badly in heels, which may be partly genetic, and partly related to the hot hot climate that means they wear flip-flops through childhood with no instep support.

Indonesian women are the prettiest for me, in Asia.  They are curvy yet petite, and lots of fun - but any sensible chap knows, one needs to be careful when dating in developing countries. 

[msmoby]

Having lived in Hong Kong during the 1980's

You should have introduced yourself..

Care to share where you opinion diverges?

My suspicion is with over 1,000 posts Yankee does not need to introduce himself. Moby you are almost as bad as your new best boyfriend Mr. Decepetion. Please try to be a little less argybargy. [/size][/font]

Dear AvHdb

I MEANT introducing himself when we were in HK....

[yankee]

As a fairly long term Asia resident, I'll add my tuppence.

Mainland and un-westernised Chinese girls: in the main, don't go there.  The gender imbalance caused by the one child policy means females are holding all the dating power.  Women from larger cities tend to be transactional.  Women from smaller cities can be a better bet, but family traditions mean you'll be expected to support the extended family forever, and the demands will never cease. The cultural incompatibilities are a minefield.  They don't pick up English well.  Gold digger attitudes are rife.  Many Chinese men are looking abroad to Vietnam and so on, as they are finding the odds are stacked against them back home. YMMV but it's a roulette and the house odds are working against a happy union.

Mainland but westernised Chinese girls - as in, live in PRC but have lived and been educated abroad.  Can be fine but your odds are no better than looking for a westernised Asian at home.  Why not just go to Vancouver or your nearest Chinese diaspora hotspot to look?  You'll also get access to Hong Kong and Hainanese background girls.

Taiwanese girls - I really like Taiwan and Taiwanese culture.  It's highly compatible with Western mores, and some of the coolest people I've ever met are from Taiwan.  Their women are pretty.  They all speak English.  Family is still important but it's less transactional.  Meeting one online may hard.  I am sure there are normal dating websites.  Taipei is a damned cool place to spend time anyway.

Singapore and Hong Kong girls - both good cultures to marry into, westernised, many are Christian if that's important to you.  A little bit entitled, which isn't necessarily a bad thing.  These are wealthy countries and the girls don't have a gold-digger attitude - but they will only choose a man with wealth in the first place.  It's a given.  Hong Kong women tend to be prettier and curvier.  Singapore women tend to have flat feet and walk badly in heels, which may be partly genetic, and partly related to the hot hot climate that means they wear flip-flops through childhood with no instep support.

Indonesian women are the prettiest for me, in Asia.  They are curvy yet petite, and lots of fun - but any sensible chap knows, one needs to be careful when dating in developing countries.

Not so sure about Indonesian women (lived there for awhile) but I would agree with the rest.

[Manny]

As a fairly long term Asia resident, I'll add my tuppence.

Mainland and un-westernised Chinese girls: in the main, don't go there.  The gender imbalance caused by the one child policy means females are holding all the dating power.  Women from larger cities tend to be transactional.  Women from smaller cities can be a better bet, but family traditions mean you'll be expected to support the extended family forever, and the demands will never cease. The cultural incompatibilities are a minefield.  They don't pick up English well.  Gold digger attitudes are rife.  Many Chinese men are looking abroad to Vietnam and so on, as they are finding the odds are stacked against them back home. YMMV but it's a roulette and the house odds are working against a happy union.

Mainland but westernised Chinese girls - as in, live in PRC but have lived and been educated abroad.  Can be fine but your odds are no better than looking for a westernised Asian at home.  Why not just go to Vancouver or your nearest Chinese diaspora hotspot to look?  You'll also get access to Hong Kong and Hainanese background girls.

Taiwanese girls - I really like Taiwan and Taiwanese culture.  It's highly compatible with Western mores, and some of the coolest people I've ever met are from Taiwan.  Their women are pretty.  They all speak English.  Family is still important but it's less transactional.  Meeting one online may hard.  I am sure there are normal dating websites.  Taipei is a damned cool place to spend time anyway.

Singapore and Hong Kong girls - both good cultures to marry into, westernised, many are Christian if that's important to you.  A little bit entitled, which isn't necessarily a bad thing.  These are wealthy countries and the girls don't have a gold-digger attitude - but they will only choose a man with wealth in the first place.  It's a given.  Hong Kong women tend to be prettier and curvier.  Singapore women tend to have flat feet and walk badly in heels, which may be partly genetic, and partly related to the hot hot climate that means they wear flip-flops through childhood with no instep support.

Indonesian women are the prettiest for me, in Asia.  They are curvy yet petite, and lots of fun - but any sensible chap knows, one needs to be careful when dating in developing countries.

That's very interesting input to what I think will become a growing subject here.   

What is your perception of South Koreans or Vietnamese?

And may I ask, why do you think you have found such differences between Taiwanese and mainland Chinese? I'd have expected they were pretty much the same but happy to be educated.

[Scampo]

SK - I've never been there.  I know many South Koreans here in SG and I know several happy unions between westerners and Korean women.  SK is quite a feminist society and anecdotally, their women can be ball-breakers.  On the other hand, they can also be drop-dead gorgeous.

Vietnam - I spend a lot of time there.  Wonderful place to visit, but I don't trust Vietnamese at all.  Their cultural attitude to money in relationships is er...well let's just say "transactional".  It's one of the most corrupt societies in the world, and in the rural areas, one of the poorest still.  They have zero concept of the values of openness, trust, honesty and transparency.  I have seen dozens of first-hand reports of disastrous marriages to Vietnamese.  I think a Chinese guy may have the cultural nous to tame one of these women, but a westerner could get turned into mincemeat.  Furthermore, you'll be supporting an extended family for life.  The sole purpose of having children in some Asian societies was historically to support you in your dotage.  It's changing in the urban areas, but slowly.  Great caution advised.

Taiwan has some major cultural differences from PRC.  For a start, although Mandarin is universally spoken, most people are more comfortable in non-Mandarin dialects (Hokkien, Hakka) which gives them a distinct cultural identity and makes them "feel" different to mainland Chinese.  Incidentally, Hokkien is mutually unintelligible with Mandarin so is best described as a language rather than a dialect.  A comparison may be an Englishman trying to understand Dutch.  The occasional word will make sense, but you sure as heck can't have a conversation.

Taiwan is a lot more westernised, has been historically less insular, and has longstanding business links with the USA and Europe.  Taiwan has a lot more links to the west in terms of people being educated abroad, links to overseas diasporas and so on.  Case in point: it's virtually impossible to do business in China as the white guy these days.  They can even be openly hostile to foreigners.  In Taiwan, they welcome doing business with foreigners.  As such, Taiwan should be seen more like a semi-Chinese, partly westernised "China-lite" environment, a bit like HK or Singapore, although not to the same extent.  A huge amount of Taiwanese have family links to HK and SG, too, which gives them exposure to more diverse culture often from an early age.

[Omega1982]

So which country is best for dating if you're a middle class american looking for an honest woman without many headaches?

And for tourism, is SE Asia still affordable or did that change? 

I'm also curious why Cupid Media has a site for Japanese women.  Given the good economy, I wouldn't think they would be willing to relocate. 

[andrewfi]

America

[rosco]

America

You got in before me!! 

I know it’s not exactly the answer you wanted Omega but rationally this is absolutely true. During my journey which I’ve written about before, things just worked out and I’m happily married. I loved the adventure and my life is richer for the experience.

If things were to change and I started over, I’d not look abroad again partly because it’s a long cut but there’s also plenty opportunity for me where I live. Sometimes you can’t find what you’re looking for because you’re staring at it.

Maybe I’m lucky in that I travel a lot with work, meet lots of people and possibilities seem vast. However, joining dance classes, gym classes or in fact any kind of mixed group where you regularly get together with new people, really opens up the window of chance.

I guess your question was, which country outside the US is best these days.

[Guile]

If you are American and want an Asian woman you are better off just finding one locally.  California, New York has a large population of them.  Any large city will have plenty of choice.

Depending on your age range though it may be hard to date them.  Asians 30 or under born or raised in the USA speak perfect English and are westernized.  They will date only their peers, not some dude 10-20 yrs older, unless it's a sugar daddy arrangement.  The younger generation that immigrated over tend to be well to do, if they are going to school here.  Or their intention is to get educated and return to their home country.

Forget Japan, South Korea.  No girl there is going to marry a foreigner and leave their home country.  There isn't much incentive.  China is a better option, far more women there and they are more open to dating outside their race.

For most Asians they prefer to marry within their ethnic group.  Yes there are interracial marriages now but they are still in the minority.

[andrewfi]

Omega, if, after all this time of 'seriously' looking for a wife you find yourself asking this kind of question then the reason that you are not married is not about the women you meet, or fantasize about.

The reason you are not married is looking at you every time you look in the mirror. So, get yourself sorted out - go on a diet, get your career on track, get a social life in your hometown and I bet that you find a great life partner in short order.

If a man can not find a woman who suits him from a population of over 300 million then adding a billion or two more candidates will not solve the problem because the problem isn't the women.