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Author Topic: Is Ukraine a Failed State?  (Read 19909 times)

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Offline TomT

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Re: Is Ukraine a Failed State?
« Reply #50 on: March 17, 2013, 08:53:33 AM »
My American bashing is only American bashing as you perceive it to be such, it isn't ill-informed if it is you that takes it to be bashing and not my intention for it to be bashing.

Coincidentally, my metrosexual bashing is only metrosexual bashing as you perceive it to be such, it isn't ill-informed if it is you that takes it to be bashing and not my intention for it to be bashing.
"Get away from the keyboard little man. I know where you live." (Message left in my facebook mailbox by our resident psychopath.)

Offline RichyRich

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Re: Is Ukraine a Failed State?
« Reply #51 on: March 17, 2013, 09:08:31 AM »
Coincidentally, my metrosexual bashing is only metrosexual bashing as you perceive it to be such, it isn't ill-informed if it is you that takes it to be bashing and not my intention for it to be bashing.
Yes sure and unlike you and many of your fellow countrymen, I can actually take the criticisms you level against me, you guys cannot... at the end of the day, you are a bunch of pansies, now that was an insult :)

Offline TomT

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Re: Is Ukraine a Failed State?
« Reply #52 on: March 17, 2013, 09:16:08 AM »
Yep, we're a sensitive lot who live for the praise of pasty, gender-confused Austin Powers wannabes.
"Get away from the keyboard little man. I know where you live." (Message left in my facebook mailbox by our resident psychopath.)


Offline CC3

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Re: Is Ukraine a Failed State?
« Reply #53 on: March 17, 2013, 09:33:51 AM »
Yep, we're a sensitive lot who live for the praise of pasty, gender-confused Austin Powers wannabes.

 :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL:
The object of war is not to die for your country but to make the other *snip* die for his.
George S. Patton

Offline cufflinks

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Re: Is Ukraine a Failed State?
« Reply #54 on: March 17, 2013, 03:52:53 PM »
Hi kettle.

Interesting conversation I had with my future in laws.  If I was Canadian or Australian how different it would have been.  I told them that the whole world knows the Ukrainian people earn for freedom but the corrupt and evil people of the West have no guts and no class and will continue to send sexpats. 

Ukraine is a cleft country with strong Russified roots made more strong by Putin an able leader who stands by his allies and has a vision.  Why is it that Ukraine has not had 1 leader in 20 years from Western Ukraine!  Why is it that my pseudo intellectual adversaries know Russia's interests in the region but who can tell me America's interests?  UK's or EU interests?

Crickets?

I am glad that you are angry at me.  The situation is indeed pathetic.  Unless you are Canadian, you bear some responsiblity over Ukraine's demise. 

I told my future in laws that the road to Bila Tserkvas was worse than the Mosul Bagdad road in 2004.  But that we Westerners are blind to the responsibilities of freedom
WTF are you quoting me for LT? can you not differentiate between different posts? :D
Rich, for Russia you are wrong.

It's 13%, seems you've forgotten just like you forget the nightspots.

No idea what it is in Ukraine, but most are paid part cash and part via the books.
I wasn't talking about Russia or Ukraine... I was pointing out his inaccurate quote of the French tax rate, no where did I state I was talking about Russia, I thought it was clear from my pointing out of his mistake about the 65% rate being 75% that I was talking about France.

Keeeriste sakes DickyDick - I made a bloody typo and meant to type 75% So shoot me already like you would love to do all yanks!

Offline cufflinks

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Re: Is Ukraine a Failed State?
« Reply #55 on: March 17, 2013, 04:00:26 PM »
Most Russians who have the means to have their wife give birth in America will do so. It has more to do with the quality of medical care than solidifying an escape from anything.
I am sorry what? quality of healthcare? you are joking surely?

Also having a child born in America is more of a burden than a positive, America is hardly free, the child should be born in a European state, great free healthcare, an education system that educates and quality of living is pretty high also we are quite free although you still can't make terrorism related jokes in an airport, a ship is fine but not an airport :(

@R2 - You are such a knee jerk anti American - clueless about the quality of US Healthcare - and many innovations and patents coming out of our New England region alone... waste of effort to try and engage you in civil discourse - thank God the UK is a collective of Island Nations - sort of a deep natural moat to keep you xenophobic lost empire imperialists from escaping.

Ok Ok the UK is the greatest collection of Human DNA ever assembled and through force of will and empire has turned the English language into the most influential global language of technology commerce and industry on the planet and the USA is a mere small insignificant cog in that global economic empire. 

Satisfied your superior British imperial sensitivities yet now have we?

Offline cufflinks

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Re: Is Ukraine a Failed State?
« Reply #56 on: March 17, 2013, 04:07:33 PM »
Cufflinks,

I'm not suggesting that Russia is in any financial distress, certainly not at the moment nor will it be in the next few years. However, it is a petrostate. I can't predict the future, but it is my opinion that oil will continue to sell at all time highs well into the future despite the growth of shale production.

This doesn't mean Russia can just sit back and relax, and let the petro dollars offset their lack of reforms and diversification.

I've been on the fence about Putin and his return to power. To be honest, I was hoping he would seize the moment and understand his place in history and move this country to the next level by improving the business interests for foreign companies, as well as improving the quality and competitiveness of its domestic ventures. Also by understanding the unlimited potential of its people/country and reinvesting those petro profits back into the country, instead of continuing to line the pockets of his cronies and perpetuate not only capital flight, but a "brain drain".

The jury is still out at the moment, and it's my belief that we won't really know the extent of his policies until at least 2015-16. Entering the WTO should help the competitive balance and improve pricing and quality, not to mention continue Russia's rather robust GDP growth moving forward. Foreign companies had anticipated this and have been lining up since 2011 at their perspective embassies looking to obtain permits that allow them to enter this market. Outside of petro dollars, consumerism is the other saving grace for Russia. Certainly, they go hand in hand.

For Russia to move in the right direction it's no secret that it needs to invest more in infrastructure, education, agriculture, technology/science/medicine and legitimate small business ventures, and not waste so much on its military. This would be a good start. It also needs to spread its wealth to the regions and not concentrate itself and its power base mainly in Moscow. There have been strides made, and Russia no longer shuns outside expertise to help improve the areas mentioned above

But this is Russia. The "old" school Soviet state still calls the shots internally and Putin is, or has to be loyal to that to coexist. I firmly believe that Putin is not an autocratic, but a semi-autocratic leader. It takes an enormous amount of money to get things done here as opposed to other countries because of its brand of corruption and I don't see that changing in the near future. Most, at least the ones in power, still operate on the "let me take what I can get now" attitude, instead of realizing a more profitable long term future in which they could still line their pockets, but also help raise many people out of poverty. 

I stay optimistic about things here and Putin. I think the one good thing from the protests last year, was Putin realizing that he couldn't continue his business as usual BS, and that he had to do something beneficial for the masses. I think he has made some concessions in that direction, but I feel it won't be until the "old" school guard dies out that things will really start to move in the right direction.

I see a change in mentality with the young generation. There will always be that "old" mentality as long as these old schools keep having children. Overall though, people here want to do things the right way, and they don't ask for much. That's the kicker. They want as many as possible to benefit from the spoils. They want to do business as business should be done, and they want to have the same freedoms and choices as those who already have this. It certainly is possible, time will tell.

Danchik - great posts and insights - what are the "permits" to enter the market may I ask?

Offline RichyRich

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Re: Is Ukraine a Failed State?
« Reply #57 on: March 17, 2013, 04:09:36 PM »
Keeeriste sakes DickyDick - I made a bloody typo and meant to type 75% So shoot me already like you would love to do all yanks!
And yet you are still wrong.
You are such a knee jerk anti American - clueless about the quality of US Healthcare - and many innovations and patents coming out of our New England region alone... waste of effort to try and engage you in civil discourse - thank God the UK is a collective of Island Nations - sort of a deep natural moat to keep you xenophobic lost empire imperialists from escaping.

Ok Ok the UK is the greatest collection of Human DNA ever assembled and through force of will and empire has turned the English language into the most influential global language of technology commerce and industry on the planet and the USA is a mere small insignificant cog in that global economic empire. 

Satisfied your superior British imperial sensitivities now have we?
Yay I am a knee jerk anti-American wooo :chuckle:

The UK does not have the best DNA, no one claimed that, hell I'd never say that. I honestly don't care about the rest of your post.

Offline cufflinks

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Re: Is Ukraine a Failed State?
« Reply #58 on: March 17, 2013, 04:11:44 PM »
Keeeriste sakes DickyDick - I made a bloody typo and meant to type 75% So shoot me already like you would love to do all yanks!
And yet you are still wrong.
You are such a knee jerk anti American - clueless about the quality of US Healthcare - and many innovations and patents coming out of our New England region alone... waste of effort to try and engage you in civil discourse - thank God the UK is a collective of Island Nations - sort of a deep natural moat to keep you xenophobic lost empire imperialists from escaping.

Ok Ok the UK is the greatest collection of Human DNA ever assembled and through force of will and empire has turned the English language into the most influential global language of technology commerce and industry on the planet and the USA is a mere small insignificant cog in that global economic empire. 

Satisfied your superior British imperial sensitivities now have we?
Yay I am a knee jerk anti-American wooo :chuckle:

The UK does not have the best DNA, no one claimed that, hell I'd never say that. I honestly don't care about the rest of your post.

Ave nother Pint Govna - might improve yer mood...

Offline cufflinks

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Re: Is Ukraine a Failed State?
« Reply #59 on: March 17, 2013, 04:23:23 PM »
Interesting article - in keeping with the thread is UA a failed state or is the EU a FAILED UNION?

ANALYST: The Cyprus Deal Could Be The 'Trigger' We Were Waiting For In Europe

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/analyst-cyprus-deal-could-trigger-144118333.html

Who runs this Cyprus Banking system the Mafiya with its customary 10% vig?

I could only imagine if they opened the banks doors one morning here and announced that everyone has just been assessed a 10% depositors tax for the privilege of doing business by bank.

Cyprus having a lot of RU expats you have to wonder if a few of these banksters and gov rats are not looking over their shoulders because of this:

On Thursday, Société Générale analysts made a prescient call on Europe.
" It is far too early to dismiss euro area crisis as a key [market] driver," wrote SocGen's Vincent Chaigneau. "We fear another shockwave in the spring."

As it turns out, they may not have had to wait very long. News this weekend that the ECB, EU, and IMF bailout of the Cypriot banking system will include an instant 10 percent "tax" on bank deposits before banks re-open following Monday's holiday has already triggered runs on ATMs there.

Now, the banks have a problem on their hands. "The Cypriot cabinet has declared Tuesday a bank holiday, for fear of capital flight, and this may even be stretched to Wednesday, as depositors are certain to withdraw huge sums from the Cypriot banks after the haircut imposed," reports Greek newspaper Kathimerini .

Many market observers are expressing concerns that the decision could have a ripple effect throughout Europe come Monday when markets open. After all, if European leaders have decided to violate the unspoken rule of bank bailouts – that deposits are sacrosanct – what's to say it can't happen in a bigger eurozone country, like Spain?

And for the likes of R2 this was a SocGen Analyst in the midst of the EU mess with a view from France - not some Yank 4,000 miles away. 

Looks like anyplace without the Euro is the place to keep money now in Europe, Norway, Switzerland, UK even....  No wonder Brits Scots Corgies and NIers want out of the EU currency union.  Bloody brilliant the UK stayed with a Monetarily Sovereign GBP rather than jump from the pan into the fire of this mess.

Offline CC3

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Re: Is Ukraine a Failed State?
« Reply #60 on: March 17, 2013, 04:34:30 PM »

Yay I am a knee jerk anti-American wooo :chuckle:


Thank you for the revelation. I am so happy we (and the French) beat the crap out of the British Army 230 years ago.
The object of war is not to die for your country but to make the other *snip* die for his.
George S. Patton

Offline cufflinks

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Re: Is Ukraine a Failed State?
« Reply #61 on: March 17, 2013, 04:46:06 PM »
EU is Amazing - can't make this stuff up!

http://www.businessinsider.com/cyprus-bailout-russian-angle-2013-3

Europe Just Pissed Off A Whole Bunch Of Russian Mobsters And Oligarchs With Its Stunning Bailout Of Cyprus

The pseudonymous @pawelmorski has more in a brilliant post titled Cyprus: A Brutal Lesson in RealPolitik, which concludes that ultimately it's not that bad for Russians. It's basically a one-off 10 percent tax on the money-laundering business, and that actually there's also a smaller tax on account holders with less than 100K EUR, which means it's not just rich Russians taking the burden.

And the Russians? The reason small depositors have been hit is that the losses inflicted would be much bigger if a) only large deposits b) only non-EU deposits were haircut. The data on Cyprus deposits is here (MUMs = Monetary Union Members). I would guess the thinking is that 10 percent is seen as a cost of doing business when it comes to money laundering, but 30 percent would probably finish Cypriot banking for good. If the infliction of losses on small depositors has a purpose, it’s probably to reassure the Russians that they are not being discriminated against. Yes, I may have thrown up a little in my mouth typing that. *

So: senior bondholders and Russians helped at the cost of smaller locals. There’s more logic here than there appears at first glance — the primary aim of this programme is to hold the European banking sector together whilst having a vaguely realistic programme, not placing another huge bill on the core/Germany not ending the viability of Cyprus as an offshore banking sector. My own judgement is that inflicting costs on depositors in principle is an extremely important one, but that not sparing the small depositor is worse than a cruel piece of realpolitik — it is in fact a mistake.

Offline Paul

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Re: Is Ukraine a Failed State?
« Reply #62 on: March 17, 2013, 04:55:24 PM »

Yay I am a knee jerk anti-American wooo :chuckle:


Thank you for the revelation. I am so happy we (and the French) beat the crap out of the British Army 230 years ago.

RichyRich's family was probably still in India at the time.

Offline TomT

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Re: Is Ukraine a Failed State?
« Reply #63 on: March 17, 2013, 04:59:14 PM »
RichyRich's family was probably still in India at the time.

I wonder if there's any Indians in the woodpile.
"Get away from the keyboard little man. I know where you live." (Message left in my facebook mailbox by our resident psychopath.)

Offline cufflinks

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Re: Is Ukraine a Failed State?
« Reply #64 on: March 17, 2013, 05:25:51 PM »
Brilliant:

http://mythfighter.com/2013/03/13/germany-eat-our-neighbors-then-kill-our-citizens-wwii-revisited/comment-page-1/#comment-46988

Translation: “The spending increase came from the money we took out of our neighbors’ treasuries. But don’t tell them that. They are too stupid to figure it out for themselves.”

Rösler’s crowing aside, the Germany is building on the flesh and blood of its neighbors and its citizens. In a brilliant campaign, reminiscent of the American .1% income group’s campaign to impoverish the U.S. middle- and lower classes, Germany has convinced the world its success is based on “budget consolidation” and “solid finances.”

A growing Gross Domestic Product requires a growing supply of money. In the case of Monetarily Sovereign nations, like the U.S., Canada, China, Australia et al, that money can be created ad hoc by their sovereign governments.

But for monetarily non-sovereign nations, which have no sovereign currency and so the total supply cannot be increased, each nation must try to steal euros from the others, in a nationalistic riot of mutual cannibalism.

When the other euro nations finally surrender to the eventuality that they either return to Monetary Sovereignty and re-adopt their own currency, or merge into a financial version of a United States of Europe, Germany will run out of blood donors.

At that point, German citizens will begin to suffer so much they will seek out a strong, ruthless leader, who will identify and persecute scapegoats, then renounce the euro, so as to finance a war.

During the chaos, the German uber-reich will feed off the dying German populace, as salaries are diverted to taxes and the focus turns to saving the government. Soon there will be but two classes: The very wealthy and the very poor. The gap will be complete.

By the way, eurozone, how’s that austerity thing working out for you?

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Re: Is Ukraine a Failed State?
« Reply #65 on: March 18, 2013, 12:42:57 AM »
By the way, eurozone, how’s that austerity thing working out for you?

The majority of politician's and economists think everything is improving.

The general public feel the ship has two captains and no rudder.

In Germany the sentiment against the Euro is growing. A political party now has formed with support from a diverse group of (liberal and conservative) politician's that seems to resonate well with the average Hans and Gretel.
“If you aren't in over your head, how do you know how tall you are?” T.S. Eliot

Offline lordtiberius

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Re: Is Ukraine a Failed State?
« Reply #66 on: March 18, 2013, 02:57:36 AM »
My critique of Ukrainian polity reflects not a disgust of Ukraine, its neighbors or even its current leadership, but of the West and its failure to support a true friend of freedom.  There is a case to say that the US is slouching toward a failed state and the EU is right behind it or maybe in front of it.  Took some pictures of St Andrew's Ascent.  Ukraine has something that the US does not have that much of and that the UK and Europe have but do not properly honor, something that the Soviet Union could not kill and it is in the stones that surround these wonderful people.  You see it in the eyes of the old and the young, in the countryside and when a pedestrian bows slightly at a weilding automobile.  The Bible says that when the leaders are good the people thrive, but when the leaders are bad, the people groan.  The people groan but eventually they will have good leaders.

Offline RichyRich

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Re: Is Ukraine a Failed State?
« Reply #67 on: March 18, 2013, 03:05:15 AM »
My critique of Ukrainian polity reflects not a disgust of Ukraine, its neighbors or even its current leadership, but of the West and its failure to support a true friend of freedom.  There is a case to say that the US is slouching toward a failed state and the EU is right behind it or maybe in front of it.  Took some pictures of St Andrew's Ascent.  Ukraine has something that the US does not have that much of and that the UK and Europe have but do not properly honor, something that the Soviet Union could not kill and it is in the stones that surround these wonderful people.  You see it in the eyes of the old and the young, in the countryside and when a pedestrian bows slightly at a weilding automobile.  The Bible says that when the leaders are good the people thrive, but when the leaders are bad, the people groan.  The people groan but eventually they will have good leaders.
What the  :censored:  are you on about? seriously, what the hell is "the US does not have, the UK and EU do not honour and the Soviet Union could not kill"... you don't even go on to say what it is Ukraine has that the others don't, you have a habit of doing this and it is bloody annoying.

Offline RichyRich

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Re: Is Ukraine a Failed State?
« Reply #68 on: March 18, 2013, 03:13:42 AM »
Yep, we're a sensitive lot who live for the praise of pasty, gender-confused Austin Powers wannabes.
Okay I have established that you're an imbecile, I don't think you understood the cross-dressing was done for parties not a general day to day thing. I am also not pale but tanned and I have no idea where you got the Austin Powers thing from as I have no desire to be a spy.
RichyRich's family was probably still in India at the time.
I wonder if there's any Indians in the woodpile.
Are you two really that  :censored: ing stupid and racist?

As far as I am concerned you are both racist mongs and maybe you two especially should be lined up against the wall and shot, the less people we have on this planet that are like you the better. How you are both married is beyond me :D

Offline Ade

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Re: Is Ukraine a Failed State?
« Reply #69 on: March 18, 2013, 04:05:41 AM »
What the  :censored:  are you on about? seriously, what the hell is "the US does not have, the UK and EU do not honour and the Soviet Union could not kill"... you don't even go on to say what it is Ukraine has that the others don't, you have a habit of doing this and it is bloody annoying.

Are you two really that  :censored: ing stupid and racist?

As far as I am concerned you are both racist mongs and maybe you two especially should be lined up against the wall and shot, the less people we have on this planet that are like you the better. How you are both married is beyond me :D

Angry little man comes to mind.



Do you also exhibit the other typical Scottish characteristic of being a tight wad?

Offline rosco

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Re: Is Ukraine a Failed State?
« Reply #70 on: March 18, 2013, 05:03:14 AM »

Offline Ade

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Re: Is Ukraine a Failed State?
« Reply #71 on: March 18, 2013, 05:27:44 AM »

Offline TomT

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Re: Is Ukraine a Failed State?
« Reply #72 on: March 18, 2013, 05:43:11 AM »
Yep, we're a sensitive lot who live for the praise of pasty, gender-confused Austin Powers wannabes.
Okay I have established that you're an imbecile, I don't think you understood the cross-dressing was done for parties not a general day to day thing. I am also not pale but tanned and I have no idea where you got the Austin Powers thing from as I have no desire to be a spy.
RichyRich's family was probably still in India at the time.
I wonder if there's any Indians in the woodpile.
Are you two really that  :censored: ing stupid and racist?

As far as I am concerned you are both racist mongs and maybe you two especially should be lined up against the wall and shot, the less people we have on this planet that are like you the better. How you are both married is beyond me :D

There, there! It's OK to dress in women's apparel and I never claimed otherwise. There's nothing wrong with applying a little (or a lot of) makeup or being of 3/8 Indian ancestry. Waxing your legs and installing implants aren't weird, nor is it clueless to fail to understand that LT is posting under the influence. Suggesting that people should be lined up and shot, presumably to death, is a bit aberrant, though. After all, it really doesn't matter if people are in a neat row or placed at random for their execution; the results are pretty much the same. You should get some help for your OCD; it'll be your undoing.
"Get away from the keyboard little man. I know where you live." (Message left in my facebook mailbox by our resident psychopath.)

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Re: Is Ukraine a Failed State?
« Reply #73 on: March 18, 2013, 05:44:06 AM »
My critique of Ukrainian polity reflects not a disgust of Ukraine, its neighbors or even its current leadership, but of the West and its failure to support a true friend of freedom.  There is a case to say that the US is slouching toward a failed state and the EU is right behind it or maybe in front of it.  Took some pictures of St Andrew's Ascent.  Ukraine has something that the US does not have that much of and that the UK and Europe have but do not properly honor, something that the Soviet Union could not kill and it is in the stones that surround these wonderful people.  You see it in the eyes of the old and the young, in the countryside and when a pedestrian bows slightly at a weilding automobile.  The Bible says that when the leaders are good the people thrive, but when the leaders are bad, the people groan.  The people groan but eventually they will have good leaders.

Sorry Lord Tiberius, the leadership since Ukraine's independence has for the greatest part of its time "governing" has only served one group, and that is one another. This replaced the need to serve the Soviet Union leading from Moscow, so they serve themselves. Simply said the leaders are corrupt and avaricious. The oligarchs are largely blind to Ukraine's greater interests and future well being. This is largely why I believe the country has failed. With regards to health care, social security and education the entire structure is unravelling. Teachers being given three different syllabuses for students in one year, medical care only available in you can pay black, and social security which seems to have evaporated for the elderly.

If one has any doubts about the courts, I would suggest you look at the case of Oksana Makar. Or perhaps the investigation of Viktor Yushchenko's poisoning by Dioxin.

While I could from some perspectives understand an argument that the United States and with in the European Union certain countries are "failed" The difference is the social fabric is largely in place and in governed by the government. But in Ukraine you have a dog eat dog nepotism that is not developing new leaders only new citizens that seem intent on cheating there neighbours and fellow country men. Perhaps Ukraine as you suggest will eventually have true leaders who reflect the desires and aspirations of the people but I strongly doubt it will happen in this generation.

As for your opinion that Ukraine will become a Chechnya or (Georgia?) this is naive. The vast majority of people even those who grew up in Sumy, Poltava or further South along the Eastern border feel themselves Ukraine. Ukraine while the birthplace of Russia is not a cobbled together country that will do a Yugoslavia. (More or less one ethnicity that was divided by three different religions.)

As for the supposition that Canada has not abandoned Ukraine is a bit like saying the Polar Bears never abandoned the South pole. Canada has been a very small investor compared to the say the Dutch, the Russians and the Austrians in Ukraine. The vast and it is in fact large amount of support is from private individuals and NGO's from Canada to Ukraine. Further this primarily benefits Western Ukraine. But the largest investor and the defacto big brother of Ukraine has been Poland. One could argue though this is self serving because Poland has a great fear (based on historical reality) of Russia. If you doubt this where was the final of the European Football (Soccer) Cup in 2012? Who were the two countries that hosted this event?

Further last year I drove from Kiev by Bila Tserkva (White Church) and found the road to be quite good, so please explain what part of the road that you found so substandard.
“If you aren't in over your head, how do you know how tall you are?” T.S. Eliot

Offline Muzh_1

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Re: Is Ukraine a Failed State?
« Reply #74 on: March 18, 2013, 06:48:51 AM »
My critique of Ukrainian polity reflects not a disgust of Ukraine, its neighbors or even its current leadership, but of the West and its failure to support a true friend of freedom.  There is a case to say that the US is slouching toward a failed state and the EU is right behind it or maybe in front of it.  Took some pictures of St Andrew's Ascent.  Ukraine has something that the US does not have that much of and that the UK and Europe have but do not properly honor, something that the Soviet Union could not kill and it is in the stones that surround these wonderful people.  You see it in the eyes of the old and the young, in the countryside and when a pedestrian bows slightly at a weilding automobile.  The Bible says that when the leaders are good the people thrive, but when the leaders are bad, the people groan.  The people groan but eventually they will have good leaders.



Further last year I drove from Kiev by Bila Tserkva (White Church) and found the road to be quite good, so please explain what part of the road that you found so substandard.

AV, please understand that this is the classic example of a narrow-minded person visiting a country for the first time and after seeing a road or two and have a beer at a bar, comes home as an expert in country matters.

Don't take it too seriously.


 

 

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