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Author Topic: Mila killed over 300 men  (Read 2317 times)

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Offline Larry

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Mila killed over 300 men
« on: November 12, 2012, 04:55:37 PM »
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Lyudmila Mykhailivna Pavlichenko (Ukrainian: Людмила Михайлівна Павліченко; Russian: Людмила Михайловна Павличенко Lyudmila Mikhailovna Pavlichenko; July 12, 1916 – October 10, 1974) was a Soviet sniper during World War II. Credited with 309 kills, she is regarded as the most successful female sniper in history.[1][2]

... In June 1941, 24-year old Pavlichenko was in her fourth year of studying history at the Kiev University when Nazi Germany began its invasion of the Soviet Union.[3] Pavlichenko was among the first round of volunteers at the recruiting office, where she requested to join the infantry and subsequently she was assigned to the Red Army's 25th Rifle Division;[3] Pavlichenko had the option to become a nurse but refused; "I joined the army when woman were not yet accepted".[3] There she became one of 2,000 female snipers in the Red Army, of whom about 500 ultimately survived the war. As a sniper, she made her first two kills near Belyayevka, using a Tokarev SVT-40 semi-automatic rifle with 3.5 telescopic sight.[3]

Pvt. Pavlichenko fought for about two and a half months near Odessa, where she recorded 187 kills.[4] When the Germans gained control of Odessa, her unit was pulled to be sent to Sevastopol on the Crimean Peninsula,[4] where she fought for more than 8 months.[3][5] In May 1942, Lieutenant Pavlichenko was cited by the Southern Army Council for killing 257 German soldiers. Her total confirmed kills during World War II was 309,[2][3] including 36 enemy snipers.
In June 1942, Pavlichenko was wounded by mortar fire. Because of her growing status, she was pulled from combat less than a month after recovering from her wound.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyudmila_Pavlichenko

Online AvHdB

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Re: Mila killed over 300 men
« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2012, 03:16:10 AM »
Odd, with Julia we were talking about snipping scenes in movies and the best being in The Hurt Games. Julia had seen some movie played by English actors about the combat (snipper) in Stalingrad?

It was interesting to hear how she felt that the West had not done enough to help the Soviets during the 2nd World War.
“If you aren't in over your head, how do you know how tall you are?” T.S. Eliot

Offline Larry

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Re: Mila killed over 300 men
« Reply #2 on: November 13, 2012, 07:51:50 AM »
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It was interesting to hear how she felt that the West had not done enough to help the Soviets during the 2nd World War.

She has a point.  The Soviets shouldered much the greater part of the burden of fighting the Nazis, especially before the Normandy invasion.  Earlier in the war Stalin pressed the Western allies to open a real second front, but this was going to require a massive amphibious operation against heavily defended territory, an extraordinarily difficult task. The Western allies just were not able to do this any earlier.

The Western allies fought the Nazis in North Africa and later in Italy, and engaged in a sustained bombing campaign against Germany.  The Western allies also sent large amounts of war materials to the Soviets.  But neither of these matched the titanic struggle in which the Soviets engaged to drive the Nazis back.

Even after the invasion of Normandy I don't think there was ever a time when at least two-thirds of the German army wasn't fighting the Soviets.



Offline Beautiful BC

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Re: Mila killed over 300 men
« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2012, 08:32:34 AM »
Thank you Larry for bringing this to our attention. Lyudmila Pavlichenko was an amazing person and I also remember she was the only survived woman who was granted the award of the Hero of the Soviet Union. 
It's a bad sign when the understanding of irony, allegory or joke is lost. (F. Dostoevsky)

Offline Beautiful BC

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Re: Mila killed over 300 men
« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2012, 08:54:18 AM »
It’s always interesting to compare different language versions of the same topics in Wikipedia, and sometimes I am puzzled.
Even in the link provided by Larry there are “episodes” which are given in Russian but not available in English, and vice-versa.

E.g., this is included in English page but not in Russian:
“While meeting with reporters in Washington, D.C. she was dumbfounded about the kind of questions put to her. "One reporter even criticized the length of the skirt of my uniform, saying that in America women wear shorter skirts and besides my uniform made me look fat".

We can read in Russian version the following (translation is shortened):
"During her trip in Chicago in 1942 she had a very short speech: "Gentlemen! I am 25 y.o. I have already killed 309 Nazis. Don’t you think, gentlemen, that you hide behind my back for too long?” The crowd had been standstill for a minute and then exploded with tremendous ovations”."

Theoretically, the same source of information should provide identical translations in different languages. But looks like Wiki has  to introduce some deviations to read smoothly depending on the target (language) audience.  ???
It's a bad sign when the understanding of irony, allegory or joke is lost. (F. Dostoevsky)

Offline mobyone

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Re: Mila killed over 300 men
« Reply #5 on: November 13, 2012, 09:08:30 AM »
Odd, with Julia we were talking about snipping scenes in movies and the best being in The Hurt Games. Julia had seen some movie played by English actors about the combat (snipper) in Stalingrad?

It was interesting to hear how she felt that the West had not done enough to help the Soviets during the 2nd World War.

You are referring to Jude Law as Vassili Zaitsev in Enemy at the Gates - I have visited his memorial plaque on the hill above Volgograd ( Mamayev Kurgan) and the eternal flame.

The love interest was played by the current James Bond's partner, Rachel Weisz

A good film, if you are interested in things Russian re the "great patriotic war " 

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0215750/

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Re: Mila killed over 300 men
« Reply #6 on: November 13, 2012, 09:16:08 AM »
Odd, with Julia we were talking about snipping scenes in movies and the best being in The Hurt Games. Julia had seen some movie played by English actors about the combat (snipper) in Stalingrad?

It was interesting to hear how she felt that the West had not done enough to help the Soviets during the 2nd World War.

You are referring to Jude Law as Vassili Zaitsev in Enemy at the Gates - I have visited his memorial plaque on the hill above Volgograd ( Mamayev Kurgan) and the eternal flame.

The love interest was played by the current James Bond's partner, Rachel Weisz

A good film, if you are interested in things Russian re the "great patriotic war " 

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0215750/

Julia thought the film was crap
“If you aren't in over your head, how do you know how tall you are?” T.S. Eliot

Offline nicknick

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Re: Mila killed over 300 men
« Reply #7 on: November 13, 2012, 09:19:43 AM »
It’s always interesting to compare different language versions of the same topics in Wikipedia, and sometimes I am puzzled.
Even in the link provided by Larry there are “episodes” which are given in Russian but not available in English, and vice-versa.

E.g., this is included in English page but not in Russian:
“While meeting with reporters in Washington, D.C. she was dumbfounded about the kind of questions put to her. "One reporter even criticized the length of the skirt of my uniform, saying that in America women wear shorter skirts and besides my uniform made me look fat".

We can read in Russian version the following (translation is shortened):
"During her trip in Chicago in 1942 she had a very short speech: "Gentlemen! I am 25 y.o. I have already killed 309 Nazis. Don’t you think, gentlemen, that you hide behind my back for too long?” The crowd had been standstill for a minute and then exploded with tremendous ovations”."

Theoretically, the same source of information should provide identical translations in different languages. But looks like Wiki has  to introduce some deviations to read smoothly depending on the target (language) audience.  ???

BC,

Wikipedia is actually written by individuals and, I would suggest, it is unlikely that the same person/people that were responsible for the English language entry were also responsible for the Russian language entry.

It happens quite often that different sources of information are used for the same subject in different language versions of Wikipedia which, combined with different people writing the entries can lead to quite different information being provided or interpretation being put on that information.

A good example of this is the Crimean War.  If you compare the English version of Wiki under ''Crimean War'' with the Russian language version you'll see some quite big differences in interpretation and the sources quoted are totally different.


EDIT

Actually, there is nothing to stop YOU updating Wiki to include the quote - as long as you provide a reputable source for the quote then you'll find that it will be accepted

Offline Muzh_1

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Re: Mila killed over 300 men
« Reply #8 on: November 13, 2012, 09:48:57 AM »
As a favor, can we address Beautiful_BC as BBC?

We already have a BC.

Thx  tiphat

Offline mobyone

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Re: Mila killed over 300 men
« Reply #9 on: November 13, 2012, 10:41:08 AM »
Julia thought the film was crap

Vive la différence, AvHdB...  the film made a healthy RoI so it wasn't a 'turkey' at the box office ;)

 

Offline Uncle

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Mila the shootist
« Reply #10 on: November 13, 2012, 10:47:50 AM »
I'm not that familiar with Mila or her accomplishments, but I have had the mixed honor of meeting several retired and active snipers who chose not to discuss their accomplishments, even amongst fellow comrades in arms.  What they did share collectively was that becoming a sniper is not for everyone with good eyes and a steady hand, it takes a strong heart and a sensitive 'feel' for sensing and finding someone else that doesn't want to be seen.

It's a lonely business, secluded, isolated and painfully slow- during WW2.  In todays military it's likely more of a group effort.  This change in time lines would mean that there were no spotters, no radios, no windage calculators and likely only basic scopes of brass and ground glass: Mila herself was likely of very sturdy stock, not the type of girl you’d find in a major city of today, but a farm kid.  They called this era the Great Generation for a reason- they didn't understand the concepts of can't, won't or quit.

Mila was likely strong minded, confident and small (there aren't a lot of very large snipers) and patient beyond understanding... as a young woman, she is likely the type of girl that you feel good about meeting but never knew if she was smiling at you or measuring your weight, height, athletic ability and impact zones... :)
'Swan' poem by Gavriil Derzhavin (c) 1804
'My Thoughts' by Taras Shevchenko (c) 1839
Take they spear, Shake thy Spear, Will I'am...Uncle (C) Dec 2012

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Re: Mila the shootist
« Reply #11 on: November 13, 2012, 10:55:18 AM »
I'm not that familiar with Mila or her accomplishments, but I have had the mixed honor of meeting several retired and active snipers who chose not to discuss their accomplishments, even amongst fellow comrades in arms.  What they did share collectively was that becoming a sniper is not for everyone with good eyes and a steady hand, it takes a strong heart and a sensitive 'feel' for sensing and finding someone else that doesn't want to be seen.

It's a lonely business, secluded, isolated and painfully slow- during WW2.  In todays military it's likely more of a group effort.  This change in time lines would mean that there were no spotters, no radios, no windage calculators and likely only basic scopes of brass and ground glass: Mila herself was likely of very sturdy stock, not the type of girl you’d find in a major city of today, but a farm kid.  They called this era the Great Generation for a reason- they didn't understand the concepts of can't, won't or quit.

Mila was likely strong minded, confident and small (there aren't a lot of very large snipers) and patient beyond understanding... as a young woman, she is likely the type of girl that you feel good about meeting but never knew if she was smiling at you or measuring your weight, height, athletic ability and impact zones... :)

I know in the States one "sniper" he admitted it was a lonely "profession".
“If you aren't in over your head, how do you know how tall you are?” T.S. Eliot

Offline Larry

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Re: Mila killed over 300 men
« Reply #12 on: November 13, 2012, 11:09:27 AM »
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This change in time lines would mean that there were no spotters, no radios, no windage calculators and likely only basic scopes of brass and ground glass

Some time ago I saw a documentary about Stalingrad.  They compared the German 98k Mauser to the Soviet Moisin-Nagant 1891, in sniper configuration.  Most of us would probably assume the 98k would be superior, but the filmakers showed shooters using both rifles and the Soviet rifle came out on top, due to the scope mount.  It was much easier and faster to zero and this could be done without tools, unlike the German scope mount.

For those who don't shoot, zeroing means the process by which you make adjustments to the mount that attaches the scope to the rifle in order to ensure that the bullet hits precisely where you aim. Sometimes this can be accomplished with one or two test shots, but sometimes it takes many more.  It is a great advantage if it can be done quickly.



 

 

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