Dating & Marriage With Women From Russia, Ukraine, Belarus & FSU > Married Chat
Married Guys: Tell Us How You Did It?
NS1:
I thought Manny would start this as it was ( his Idea)
But Was good question!
To married guys or guys about to be married.
What did you do, what would have you done different?
How did you do it?
RG:
This is a good question; I suspect one that I will have a few things I wished I had remember after posting. :nod:
What did I do (ultimately)?
I did a lot of "homework" before jumping in full blast.
I looked inside myself and at my own past to be as honest as possible in what works for me and what does not, not an endless list but instead a handful of things I really must have to be in a reasonably healthy, committed, happy relationship, and a handful of things I simply could not/would not tolerate, no matter the rest of the package.
I tried to limit "fluffing" reality into a prettier but unrealistic picture. I looked beyond the criteria for dating someone, but thought about where I expect to and would like to be in 5 years, 10, 20, from location to lifestyle, instead of simply considering someone that would be fun to date casually but inevitably goes nowhere. The difference between "would I date her?" and "Would I expect a serious long term future as a real possibility?" can lead to entirely different answers.
I threw out all of the rubbish allowing for cultural excuses for various important behaviors.
I stopped wasting time on pretty pictures with those who were unlikely to be lifestyle compatible in the longer term.
Instead of always asking completely direct questions about my "must and must nots," I asked some, but also just listened and paid attention to how they reacted in different situations, discussions, with different people, etc.
If in doubt or stuck in fantasy-land, I closed my eyes, ignored whatever picture(s) or experiences might be facilitating the "fantasy," ignored all physical attributes, and asked if I would be truly interested in this person, knowing all of the personality that I did currently, if she lived down the block and was an average looking American woman. Again, not just for dating, but did I see possibilities further down the road, or did some things jump out that made it much more likely that it might make for a fun number of dates, but unlikely to go beyond that? This wasn't always a straight-forward thing, as let's face it, you're going off of limited information, and it does take time to get to know someone, but sometimes you may already know more than you really need to, once you try to remove the illusions and fantasies.
I also of course, got lucky to an extent as well, and had a valued friendship develop into more.
I jumped on a plane fairly quickly once we saw potential for more, had next trips arranged pretty quickly, and not a single day passed without communication.
I spent as much time as possible overseas, coming as close as possible to "normal life" while there, without many "vacations" involved. Don't be wishy-washy, do or do not.
What might I have done differently?
I might have gotten out of the "candy shop" sooner. This wasn't so much in actions as it was in simply wasting time for a while, and it's not always easy to see when you're in it. I definitely wasted some real time in communications with some that were obviously nowhere near a good long term match, but thankfully got out of it.
I might have spent some more time talking to more "friends only" type penpals or in person. I did do this and made some friends along the way, and maybe it wouldn't have changed much - it was great to put some real perspective on different behaviors, versus expected behaviors.
There is also a difference in that no matter how much "research" you do, you may fall for some of the generalizations while sure that you aren't.
This one is tougher to explain, but a part of it is in understanding actual disposable income and relative lifestyles, as well as simply being there and seeing normal life for many people. Things like owning an apartment outright, or having family that does, versus a mortgage, actual cost of living and disposable income versus raw numbers. Do all of us own a summer cottage somewhere, and own our home(s) outright? There are other things, such as cost of higher education, insurance, and intangibles that make direct comparisons of the lifestyle of your pen-pal or friend and yourself not as straightforward at times.
doc holiday:
My fiancee and I have had one major misunderstanding during our time together. After we had been together for a few months she told me that she wanted to stay past the time her visa would legally allow her to stay in the US so that we could be together. I knew it was a bad idea for her to jeopardize her future immigration status in this way and was thinking about our long-term prospects so I cooled off a bit and became more distant. It turns out she was telling me that to gauge how serious I was about her and she had intended to go back. I did not know this. She did not know that I was committed to here and wanted to bring her back to the US to be with me legally and forever.
Although I have made numerous mistakes and could have done many things better, the only thing I know for sure I would have done differently and would have done better was communicate early on and understand why she did/said things she did/said and made sure she understood why I was doing everything I was doing. It took us a lot of conversations to sort this out and fully understand each other and I am fortunate that it ever did work out. When she saw how excited I was to see her again and how much more open I was she believed and understood the reasons behind my actions, but I should have made sure she knew that from the beginning.
If I was starting this process all over again there are a few things I would do differently. I would have waited until after I finished my PhD because there were weeks when I had almost no time to devote to the process. It is hard to keep momentum going when you have such little time to devote. I also would have used the information I gathered from this site differently and treated most of it as guidelines instead of as rules in some cases. For example, if a profile seems fake or responses seem fluffy or any of the 'red flags' appear I would not be so quick to judge. The cost of investing a couple of extra hours to find out for sure is much less than the value of keeping an open mind and possibly making a real connection.
mendeleyev:
How did I "do that?"
Learned the culture and took my time. She was not in a rush and had I pushed we wouldn't have married. I was busy and didn't have time to rush so perhaps that was a factor in my favour. But importantly, I was consistent and that seems to be key to most RW.
I was already attending Orthodox services with the intent on converting before we began dating but that was also a "must" in her mind so it is a good thing that my mindset was the same. That was fine with me because it had become a "must" in my mind as well. At the time I wasn't sure if I would be allowed to stay in Russia or be assigned to another part of the world so after getting a positive "thumbs up" from her family priest, her mother who was a Moscow University professor at the time, called the office of Patriarch Alexi II and our marriage interview was done by an auxiliary bishop at the Patriarch's office and within a week Patriarch Alexi had signed a letter granting us "economy" (permission) to be married at any Orthodox church in the world. We didn't need that letter as I was re-posted to Moscow and we married there but his letter is one of our most cherished keepsakes from that time period, especially since he has passed (memory eternal!).
Living in Moscow gave both of us time to observe each other at great length. We used courtship as our method of dating so I was included in many of her family events, such as spending time at their summer dacha in Volgograd, traveling on trains and buses to spend holidays with her extended relatives outside Moscow, Kaluga, Shakhty, etc. I was fully "vetted" by everyone from elderly aunts to younger cousins and middle aged Uncles. I made some missteps as of course none of us are perfect, but apparently passed the tests.
Her friends had a say in her decision and I was well aware as she is straight forward and let me know that if her priest, her family or her friends disapproved then we'd have to discontinue our courtship. Fortunately many of her friends worked in media and several I worked with or near on a daily basis and had formed great relationships. I gained a second "family" made up of her friends.
I got to observe her at great length and once my eyes adjusted to focusing on more than just her legs, liked what I saw on a consistent basis. We had our bumps in the road but the lengthy courtship allowed us to make long term evaluations and to evaluate character in real life rather than projecting desired character attributes on someone you really don't know that well.
As RG said, if I think of other points I'll add those later.
Zoomzoom:
That sounds wonderful mendeleyev, thanks for sharing.
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