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Author Topic: Chris's second trip, first meeting in Lugansk  (Read 122047 times)

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Offline christianv

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Re: Chris's second trip, first meeting in Lugansk
« Reply #25 on: January 02, 2012, 05:24:04 PM »
except for in the village, electric waterboilers are quite common here  :laugh:
Oh an Chris: dont drink tapwater!!!

Normally boiling things will kill all bacteria but here there are many metals and other pollution in the water.. stick to bottled water or youll have a headache...

Great vids!!!

Im currently in Odessa, Ukraine. Feel free to call me if you are planning to visit! (+38) O66 55 75 6O4

Offline ChrisE

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Re: Chris's second trip, first meeting in Lugansk
« Reply #26 on: January 02, 2012, 05:30:46 PM »
ok, first at nicknick. The US used to have kettles such as these, but they took forever to heat up due to the country's power being only 120 volts. In other countries everything is 220/240 volts, so allowing more heating capacity without blowing the circuit. The kettle here is pretty fast, and heats about the same as the microwave. In the US, it would take about 5-10 minutes to heat the same amount of water to the same temp. My grandfather had an electric kettle dating back to I would guess the late 40s or early 50s that he used until the day he died. He would turn it on, and go out for a long walk in the hope the water would be hot when he returned. A microwave does the job in 60-90 seconds for a 1200 plus watt unit.


Christian, you of all people know how bumpy the roads are here!  :chuckle: And that was only the start of it. But I am hoping as of tomorrow evening I can try to get some solo time with my lady to see how it works. The language thing is going to suck, but hey, it could all be worth it!

It WILL be all worth it.. no matter what the outcome is: you made the long trip to a difficult country during its most difficult period of the year with some difficult personal setbacks..all this on your own and....still typing away on RUA.com. Most guys would never have the balls to even consider it.. i wouldnt.. not at this time of year. youre a hero!

Well, I don't understand the hero part, and don't get why things should be any more difficult here this time of year than any other? The weather is pleasant and mild, the streets are quiet, and people are in a good holiday mood! Difficult as when I travelled for work and would spend months in places like New Jersey! That was a hell unlike anyplace else I have been to!  :ROFL: But it about as rough working all winter in North central Maine, or being in places like New Orleans or Biloxi during July and August. Scary is driving through the mountains during a blizzard, or being a contractor in Saudi. Or even having to cross a picket line in Pa. for work as a contractor, only because it paid $30/hr with nearly unlimited hours possible. That's what I consider having balls!   :Stickouttongue2: Goint to Ukraine chasing some really pretty tail? That's just for fun, and hopefully to gain a lifelong "reward" for the investment.  :thumbsup:


Offline ChrisE

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Re: Chris's second trip, first meeting in Lugansk
« Reply #27 on: January 02, 2012, 05:33:24 PM »
except for in the village, electric waterboilers are quite common here  :laugh:
Oh an Chris: dont drink tapwater!!!

Normally boiling things will kill all bacteria but here there are many metals and other pollution in the water.. stick to bottled water or youll have a headache...

Great vids!!!



No headache, but maybe the metals in the water might explain this insanity of coming back for more! LOL


Offline christianv

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Re: Chris's second trip, first meeting in Lugansk
« Reply #28 on: January 02, 2012, 05:36:58 PM »

Goint to Ukraine chasing some really pretty tail? That's just for fun, and hopefully to gain a lifelong "reward" for the investment.  :thumbsup:

Thats the spirit!!!!!

Serious but strange question: if you happen to walk by a mcdonalds can you give me the price of a Big Mac Menu?
That way i know how the prices in general are in your city compared to kiev, odessa and other places..the Big Mac Index never fails.
Im currently in Odessa, Ukraine. Feel free to call me if you are planning to visit! (+38) O66 55 75 6O4

Offline ChrisE

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Re: Chris's second trip, first meeting in Lugansk
« Reply #29 on: January 02, 2012, 09:33:18 PM »
That's an awesome idea, and a great gauge i think! I haven't seen one yet, but I'll keep my eyes open. After a week of this bunny lady food, I may need a big mac!  :popcorn:

Online AvHdB

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Re: Chris's second trip, first meeting in Lugansk
« Reply #30 on: January 03, 2012, 01:41:16 AM »
How is the chase going - any rewards  :hidechair:

Otherwise we will send Mila with money, lawyers and guns!  :party0031:
“If you aren't in over your head, how do you know how tall you are?” T.S. Eliot

Offline Millaa

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Re: Chris's second trip, first meeting in Lugansk
« Reply #31 on: January 03, 2012, 02:13:14 AM »
How is the chase going - any rewards  :hidechair:

Otherwise we will send Mila with money, lawyers and guns!  :party0031:

He already payed for taxi 400$ >>> so flight from Moscow to Vlad costs  ;D
Скептический ум - страшное оружие с собственным счастьем

Online AvHdB

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Re: Chris's second trip, first meeting in Lugansk
« Reply #32 on: January 03, 2012, 02:54:21 AM »
Milaa,

To help your English comprehension the reference to lawyers, money and guns comes from a great Warren Zevon song, it even has a reference to the Russians and a desperate man. And the classic line "the shit has hit the fan".

There are enough you tube versions, here is one.


AvHdB

“If you aren't in over your head, how do you know how tall you are?” T.S. Eliot

Offline Bruce Lee

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Re: Chris's second trip, first meeting in Lugansk
« Reply #33 on: January 03, 2012, 07:52:24 AM »
Chris, really well written report and respect due for going into the level of detail you have so far.

A few questions.

$400 for taxi in a country such as Ukraine doesn't sound normal! For example my last memory of my ladies city (In Russia not Ukraine) you could have a taxi for 200 rubles (about £4) per hour!!!

$160 in a grocery store in Ukraine, what apart from alcohol could possibly run a bill like that up?

Out of curiosity did you fund the shopping trip to the Mall or did she?

IMHO the excuse for leaving you alone during New Years Eve (thus missing one of the highlights of FSU life) sadly sounds like absolute grade A bullshit. If the excuse is true why didn't she send a friend over to tell you the news rather then leaving you to stew (without being able to go anywhere) until mid-afternoon the next day? The most likely truth is she went out for a night out with her friends (or local boyfriend) and most likely got hammered and waited until she had slept off the effects before coming to meet you the next day! Her actions show a total lack of respect for you, despite the show of affection the next day!

Regardless, I sincerely wish you luck and as said above respect is due for posting what you have. Hopefully things will improve.
If you get a minute check out Bruce's TR - Its not quite finished, however its still a pretty good read IMHO.

If I win the lottery I'll finish it this week if not I'll probably complete it when I retire!!! Until then I hope you enjoy the story so far!

Offline Bruce Lee

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Re: Chris's second trip, first meeting in Lugansk
« Reply #34 on: January 03, 2012, 07:54:15 AM »
How is the chase going - any rewards  :hidechair:

Otherwise we will send Mila with money, lawyers and guns!  :party0031:

He already payed for taxi 400$ >>> so flight from Moscow to Vlad costs  ;D
Yep, 2 and half years my misses paid just under £300 for a one-way ticket from Vlad to Moscow and then onto St Pete!
If you get a minute check out Bruce's TR - Its not quite finished, however its still a pretty good read IMHO.

If I win the lottery I'll finish it this week if not I'll probably complete it when I retire!!! Until then I hope you enjoy the story so far!

Offline ChrisE

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Re: Chris's second trip, first meeting in Lugansk
« Reply #35 on: January 03, 2012, 08:49:32 AM »
How is the chase going - any rewards  :hidechair:

Otherwise we will send Mila with money, lawyers and guns!  :party0031:



Things are looking up here, life is getting good!  :thumbsup:  No need to arm Mila! I think I have a "protector" now-  :bow:

So here's the full update:
  It has been a great blessing to finally get the internet. As Olga and her friend sat here for several hours before Olga had to go to work, we were able to have a personal conversation without anyone in the middle. Many things were discussed, and questions answered. The friend only was needed sometimes when a word wouldn't translate right, such as when I wrote "tablet" referring to my tablet computer, but it translated to "drugs" or "pills". It was a very good system, and afforded privacy with a safety net.

  We discussed everything from philosophy to economics, compared standards of living between countries, money, and most importantly about relationships. For one, she didn't understand how a "rich westerner" didn't seem to have unlimited funds by Ukrainian standards.  :D I had to explain how even my rent alone was nearly twice her monthly salary and my cell phone bill was over 1/4 of her salary. To say she was shocked would be an understatement, but at least she finally understood it was all perspective.

  There will need to be a lot more discussion about our relationship, and time needs to be spent together. She is still cautious, as am I under the circumstances. I am really beginning to care for her a lot, but it will take time to create a true bond. We definately have come to be more relaxed around each other, and have developed some chemistry. We discussed hypothetical things as our possible future together. We had at first discussed what language would be our common language, which of course turned into deciding what country would be best to live. It was decided that Ukraine was the best choice. This was her idea first, after she weighed the options.

  We then went into how to make a living as a family here in Ukraine. I asked her if she ever thought of having her own business, and sure, she had a dream but thought it impossible because the startup costs would be about 3 months salary. Taking a bank loan at over 20% was not going to be practical, or good sense. She wants to open a beauty salon, which can be done for peanuts (my scale) because she already has most of the things, and she already has clients. She goes to client's homes and does the work there because she doesn't have a shop. But as she says, much of the money goes back into paying for her taxi, and lost time commuting from one client to another.

  As for my income, I can do a variation of what I was starting to do in the US-internet sales, and even a retail store. I have the suppliers already set up, and I can still far undersell anyone in town and yet make a good profit. Also talked about going wholesale to a degree, and she thinks it has a lot of promise. (not giving away my ideas here-don't want any competition!) But I did explain a proven business model from the US and Europe that is only just beginning here, so it is probably the best time to get into it. Olga's only question that threw me for a loop was how soon could I make the move? Now I think it may have started to cross the line from hypothetical to reality. Guess I will have to see how things go over the next several days, and give it some serious thought.

  As to local news, the city has arisen from the dead! The sun came out for the first time since I arrived, and so did all the people! Now there is heavy traffic downtown, everything is open, people are on the streets and sidewalks. Life has resumed to the fullest. The attractions are again open, and am now to meet Olga's only family tomorrow-her older sister. We are to go to a local art museum, and spend the afternoon there. It's very difficult to find something to do on the cheap here, as even going for drinks costs a small fortune for cover charge to get in. I offered to make a dinner for all of us, but apparently Olga's sister was not comfortable with this. Oh well, I tried! lol

  I will try to get more pics tomorrow, and keep the updates coming in

Offline ChrisE

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Re: Chris's second trip, first meeting in Lugansk
« Reply #36 on: January 03, 2012, 09:17:47 AM »
Quick answers here Bruce-Groceries are at US prices here now, on average for most things. I nearly had a coronary when I saw the bill and only had 3 bags of stuff. I only spent about 20 bucks on booze.

The taxi thing I am almost positive was a "westerner" rate, even if it was for a round trip for a total of 4 hours


Offline Herrie

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Re: Chris's second trip, first meeting in Lugansk
« Reply #37 on: January 03, 2012, 09:34:05 AM »
Quick answers here Bruce-Groceries are at US prices here now, on average for most things. I nearly had a coronary when I saw the bill and only had 3 bags of stuff. I only spent about 20 bucks on booze.

The taxi thing I am almost positive was a "westerner" rate, even if it was for a round trip for a total of 4 hours
A good lady caring for your wallet would argue with the taxi driver and get it down to a proper rate for you! (Which might still be a little inflated, but nothing outrageous)

Offline mendeleyev

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Re: Chris's second trip, first meeting in Lugansk
« Reply #38 on: January 03, 2012, 09:56:38 AM »
Chris, yesterday I wrote to a new person here to hurry up and then slow down. I admire the way you hurried up to get over and meet her, but hoping that now you'll slow down. My concerns mirror Bruce, especially the timing of the shopping trip for new dresses so soon after you'd arrived, coincidentally just in time for a nice dress for New Year's Eve.

Then the amount of the groceries described sparks some doubt in the back of my mind as if there was prior knowledge that you'd be stranded in the apartment. There are generally buzzers down at the entry so I'm wondering about her taking your key as well. If you have your key now, how does she get in or let you know she's arrived?

I certainly don't mean to rain on your parade and hope any fears you have are unfounded, but remember that both pro-daters and scammers (not saying she is either) have one thing working against them--time. It makes sense, no matter how things are going, to use time to your advantage. As a foreigner it is one of the few advantages you have. Don't be afraid to use it. Were it me at this juncture I'd stop any planning of where will we live/what will we do and begin using time to find out who she is and let her get to know who you are.


Offline mendeleyev

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Re: Chris's second trip, first meeting in Lugansk
« Reply #39 on: January 03, 2012, 09:59:06 AM »
That being said, I hope you also find time to get out and enjoy Lugansk and have some vacation time for yourself as well.

I wish you safety and success!

Offline ChrisE

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Re: Chris's second trip, first meeting in Lugansk
« Reply #40 on: January 03, 2012, 10:04:12 AM »
I agree, I got pretty well screwed on the Taxi deal. That's a given

Bruce, about the New Years thing- When sh did come back the next day, she was obviously exhausted, and seemed genuinely upset, sad, and sorry about missing our arranged plans as well as having my keys. She had not been out drinking or she would have had signs of it yet.  She could not contact me as I stated in the TR, I had no phone or internet yet to be reached. I do have to say that during the night I was wasting time, I did think of all these possibilities which tended to make me even more suspicious, angry, and moody. It's tough, because those feelings tend to feed on themselves and grow worse as time goes on. So if something was legitimately wrong, then many wrong assumptions could be made. Still, I am not trying to defend her or make any excuses, only to tell what I felt and observed as facts.

Offline Larry

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Re: Chris's second trip, first meeting in Lugansk
« Reply #41 on: January 03, 2012, 10:07:21 AM »
Quote
IMHO the excuse for leaving you alone during New Years Eve (thus missing one of the highlights of FSU life) sadly sounds like absolute grade A bullshit. If the excuse is true why didn't she send a friend over to tell you the news rather then leaving you to stew (without being able to go anywhere) until mid-afternoon the next day? The most likely truth is she went out for a night out with her friends (or local boyfriend) and most likely got hammered and waited until she had slept off the effects before coming to meet you the next day! Her actions show a total lack of respect for you, despite the show of affection the next day!

I agree with BruceLee.  Sometimes events happen that are absolutely out of the woman's control and she can't even get word to us, but generally not.  If we like a girl we want to give her the benefit of the doubt and accept her story.  And many of these women are champion excuse-makers.  If excuse-making were an Olympic event the Ukrainian team would take the gold every four years.  By that I don't mean that all Ukrainian girls are liars, but only that the country seems to produce a huge number of well-practiced liars.

She told you two stories for the same day (new year's eve, a day that FSUW usually spend going out with friends/boyfriends), the first that one of her workers came in to work drunk and she had to go in to replace her, and the second that there was a break-in at the store and she had to be at the police station all night to deal with it.  The first story probably happens rarely.  The second very, very rarely.  Yet she asked you to believe that both occurred, on the same day.  It's possible but it just doesn't seem likely.  Bruce's explanation seems much more likely.

And if Bruce's explanation is the correct version of events it means that Olga 1) lied to you, and 2) treated you with a complete lack of respect.  After all, you travelled thousands of miles and spend thousands of dollars to visit her at new year's.

Since the store break-in was reported to the police I wonder whether there is any way to verify it with them.

Quote
Were it me at this juncture I'd stop any planning of where will we live/what will we do and begin using time to find out who she is and let her get to know who you are.
 

I also agree with Mendy's advice. You need to make sure about Olga before going any farther down this road.  There are too many causes for concern, things you need to clear up.

Offline ChrisE

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Re: Chris's second trip, first meeting in Lugansk
« Reply #42 on: January 03, 2012, 10:24:39 AM »
Chris, yesterday I wrote to a new person here to hurry up and then slow down. I admire the way you hurried up to get over and meet her, but hoping that now you'll slow down. My concerns mirror Bruce, especially the timing of the shopping trip for new dresses so soon after you'd arrived, coincidentally just in time for a nice dress for New Year's Eve.

Then the amount of the groceries described sparks some doubt in the back of my mind as if there was prior knowledge that you'd be stranded in the apartment. There are generally buzzers down at the entry so I'm wondering about her taking your key as well. If you have your key now, how does she get in or let you know she's arrived?

I certainly don't mean to rain on your parade and hope any fears you have are unfounded, but remember that both pro-daters and scammers (not saying she is either) have one thing working against them--time. It makes sense, no matter how things are going, to use time to your advantage. As a foreigner it is one of the few advantages you have. Don't be afraid to use it. Were it me at this juncture I'd stop any planning of where will we live/what will we do and begin using time to find out who she is and let her get to know who you are.



I agree completely! Although to set one thing straight, there are no buzzers here except on the apartment door-not outside the building. I also told her friend that Olga and I need some alone time, and she agreed.  ;D The groceries were part my idea, because I wanted to make a special dish for New Years-and she wouldn't have to cook. Some of the stuff was normal groceries-milk, coffee, bread, cheese, fruit, salt, sugar. Normal staples, but it added up quick. I just don't want to read into something too much as when someone wants to see red flags they will find a way to see them. But I am keeping my eyes open and my perspective in check.

Larry, your point is taken, and that's exactly what I am doing. I am also arranging some time alone with Olga-no friend around to see what she is like without any third party influence. I already learned today that we communicate on a much deeper and intimate level when we started to use the translator on my tablet and kept the translator out of it-though she was available just in case as what happened with the "tablet" example. I want to know if her shyness goes away too! ;)
 

Offline Rasputin

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Re: Chris's second trip, first meeting in Lugansk
« Reply #43 on: January 03, 2012, 10:27:26 AM »
Now I wonder, is she out celebrating New Years in her new dress with her real boyfriend? This is the WORST New Years I ever had, and to speak honestly, right now I wish I had never come here.

Did you pay for the dress? Based on what you have written, it does seem that you are potentially being milked for a lot of cash and the "I have been called to work" is usually a lame excuse. Also, leaving you pretty much locked in your apartment while she goes off to "work" makes her quite a [fill in your preferred expletive].

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Offline Brasscasing

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Re: Chris's second trip, first meeting in Lugansk
« Reply #44 on: January 03, 2012, 10:30:03 AM »
Great TR Chris! I'm glad to read you're able to work(ing) through some of the challenges logistical and relationship wise that have cropped up on this trip.

As discussed in chat, you've had your plate full so continue to be mindful of search fatigue, stay frosty  (look before you leap) and take it one step at a time.

I'm thinking good thoughts for you. Looking forward to more submitions (TR). :)

Brass
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P.S....Unless you happen to live in Quebec and are subject to the Quebec Charter Of Values, of course.

Offline Muzh_1

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Re: Chris's second trip, first meeting in Lugansk
« Reply #45 on: January 03, 2012, 10:56:47 AM »
Now I wonder, is she out celebrating New Years in her new dress with her real boyfriend? This is the WORST New Years I ever had, and to speak honestly, right now I wish I had never come here.

Did you pay for the dress? Based on what you have written, it does seem that you are potentially being milked for a lot of cash and the "I have been called to work" is usually a lame excuse. Also, leaving you pretty much locked in your apartment while she goes off to "work" makes her quite a [fill in your preferred expletive].

Ouch, harsh.

I'm getting bad vibes about this. For the next few days, keep your eyes and SENSES extremely receptive. You'll find out physically if she is really into you.

I have my own theory which departs from the others at one point.

Chris, hang in there and please be very observant. Use your big head the force.

Offline Larry

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Re: Chris's second trip, first meeting in Lugansk
« Reply #46 on: January 03, 2012, 11:00:12 AM »
Nice videos.  I noticed the ones you took on the street in Lugansk have that cinema verite style that Christian films in Ukraine.  I suspect this may become an increasingly common accompaniment to trip reports.  It does provide an element we don't commonly get from trip reports,  a feel for what it's like on the ground.

Quote
You'll find out physically if she is really into you.

Muzh makes an excellent point.  I mentioned this in chat but I'll post it here for the benefit of any newcomers to the FSUW search.  You generally know it when they're into you.  I'm not saying this can't be faked, but when you experience the absence of real affection you can be pretty sure they're not really into you.

Offline HoundDaddyLee

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Re: Chris's second trip, first meeting in Lugansk
« Reply #47 on: January 03, 2012, 11:31:55 AM »
Quote
IMHO the excuse for leaving you alone during New Years Eve (thus missing one of the highlights of FSU life) sadly sounds like absolute grade A bullshit. If the excuse is true why didn't she send a friend over to tell you the news rather then leaving you to stew (without being able to go anywhere) until mid-afternoon the next day? The most likely truth is she went out for a night out with her friends (or local boyfriend) and most likely got hammered and waited until she had slept off the effects before coming to meet you the next day! Her actions show a total lack of respect for you, despite the show of affection the next day!

I agree with BruceLee.  Sometimes events happen that are absolutely out of the woman's control and she can't even get word to us, but generally not.  If we like a girl we want to give her the benefit of the doubt and accept her story.  And many of these women are champion excuse-makers.  If excuse-making were an Olympic event the Ukrainian team would take the gold every four years.  By that I don't mean that all Ukrainian girls are liars, but only that the country seems to produce a huge number of well-practiced liars.

She told you two stories for the same day (new year's eve, a day that FSUW usually spend going out with friends/boyfriends), the first that one of her workers came in to work drunk and she had to go in to replace her, and the second that there was a break-in at the store and she had to be at the police station all night to deal with it.  The first story probably happens rarely.  The second very, very rarely.  Yet she asked you to believe that both occurred, on the same day.  It's possible but it just doesn't seem likely.  Bruce's explanation seems much more likely.

And if Bruce's explanation is the correct version of events it means that Olga 1) lied to you, and 2) treated you with a complete lack of respect.  After all, you travelled thousands of miles and spend thousands of dollars to visit her at new year's.

Since the store break-in was reported to the police I wonder whether there is any way to verify it with them.

Quote
Were it me at this juncture I'd stop any planning of where will we live/what will we do and begin using time to find out who she is and let her get to know who you are.
 

I also agree with Mendy's advice. You need to make sure about Olga before going any farther down this road.  There are too many causes for concern, things you need to clear up.

Hi Chris,

I have to agree with Larry and the others. As someone who was lied to and used by a Ukrainian girl I can attest to their abilities to manipulate you. Please be very careful. My alarm bells went off on the grocery bill. I found groceries to be much less expensive in Odessa than here in Western New York. Also the immediate trip to the mall was another red flag. If you bought her a dress for New Years Eve and she cared about you, you would have seen her in it. Her excuses sound suspect. Even if this is the truth, she knew you were "trapped" in your apartment. By doing this she pretty much guaranteed you would not "run into her" that night if you ventured out on your own.

From my prospective you are getting taken for a ride. Please be very careful and keep your eyes and ears open. Also, keep thinking with your big head. I know how fantastic it is to be with the lovely ladies of FSU. But you need to keep your wits about you.

Good luck and keep us in the loop.

Lee

Offline Muzh_1

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Re: Chris's second trip, first meeting in Lugansk
« Reply #48 on: January 03, 2012, 11:40:30 AM »

Even if this is the truth, she knew you were "trapped" in your apartment. By doing this she pretty much guaranteed you would not "run into her" that night if you ventured out on your own.

Lee

Boy Lee, you are such a sage.

BTW, got any snow last night out there?


Offline NS1

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Re: Chris's second trip, first meeting in Lugansk
« Reply #49 on: January 03, 2012, 01:13:19 PM »
Chris, I hate to say it, i tend to agree with most above. It happens fast you are in her world.
Keep in mind when a beautiful girl dressed to kill, gives you a hug and smiles at you, it is a good feeling.
It makes any of us want to justify what she says. The new years night thing is real bad! the shopping trip,and taxi are bad. But you  are also there long enough to get a real feel fro what is going on.
Don't promise anything until you get home and had a chance to look back on it all.
Major plans can be talked about and dealt with on skype later!
Now is as much time together as possible. Are you meeting family and her friend?
Friends matter a lot, if she meet you to them it is important??? Even more important which friends.
Ask her some hard questions and watch for the way she answers as much as the answer itself!
best of luck and keep it real.
There is nothing permanent except change.