Back to The Ukraine

[AvHdB]

“Well The Ukraine girls really knock me out they leave the West behind”

                     “History is gonna change.”

So everyone understands I KNOW that it is not The Ukraine but out of respect to the Paul McCartney and Marty McFly I could not resist. There are no articles in the Russian and Ukraine languages. I UNDERSTAND!

So after 2.5 relationships I decided to try again. With a slight twist, I would use my favourite spy, but I would write myself to women via Love Planet. Why you wonder ~ because they were often young. For some us, way too young. My Mom on my birthday when I was 40 years old complained that I was not grown up! So if I want to write teenagers that is at my risk!

Stirlitz can write to the women with potential and if I want to write to those under the age of 30 (JC territory) that will be my pleasure. So hit the keys I did.

One thing that I do have as a rule was not to ruin the fields for other grazers in this pasture.

Now I am waiting to board a flight to Kiev at Schiphol and I will try to give updates as time and the reality permits. I flew about 16 hours ago in from New York played brilliant squash had a few laughs had a few too many beers (I realized biking home) and now am about to fly on to Kiev.

There were times that I felt as a proctor as I corrected a young women’s English. I wondered should a dyslexic Yankee~Cloggie even be doing this? Other women impressed me on how desperate they were/are. Others because of there sincerity and kindness.

I shall see and you shall hear.

[Larry]

Good luck.

[Muzh_1]

Bon Voyage, Bon Chance, and keep us posted.

[AvHdB]

Another one bites the dust!

I guess one of the first disappointments came just after Thanksgiving. I was in contact with the woman "A1" and described to her helping a friend do Thanksgiving dinner service via the church for some 30 less fortunate families. I had helped behind scenes on logistics after the church hall where the majority of the food was stored had burnt down.

We scrambled around getting new turkey’s, cranberry sauce, pumpkin pies, stuffing, potatoes etc.

I told her that I hope next week on Saturday than perhaps we would have something to grateful about. Anyways she went on Black Saturday to the Pinchuk and than wrote that she waited two hours and I did not show up. She was furious and could not believe I could do that to her. I apologized and said that we could stick to plan that was I was thinking but have not heard back.

Oh well she was a red head and under the sign of Taurus so perhaps for the better.

Odd flying from Amsterdam it was solid clouds below but as the plane started to depart the clouds disappeared and Kiev was sunny and is cold. Was met at Borisypol by my friend Yuliya and heard her travails with men. Have an simple apartment near the center for $ 60 per night, tonight a party at Ciro’s.

[AvHdB]

So I left Ciro’s at 7pm ~ I did not bring my party/drinking boots! The party was fun but in fact not my scene, Yuliya, together with a well know Ukraine TV presentrice, some other Kiev babe’s with an attitude. Some minor English & a French Moroccan football players, from the minor leagues I guess. Plus a few other hanger ons. One woman from Kiev was an art dealer in 20th century art but did not know who A. Archipenko was (OK I just bought one) and said absolutely that N. Gabo and A. Pevsner could never have been brothers. I guess she will not be on the vetting committee to the TEFAF!

So off to meet Luba, at 182 in height she is as tall as I am, aged 29 with a 3 year old child. She is still in contact with the father in Italy. To me it seems she is abandoned with her son. Our contact while not extensieve had an offbeat banter to it.  It was with extreme difficulty and we communicated with/via her best friend. While a sweet woman as well as sexy a hell I just felt that she wanted something else than me. It was odd as we parted she held me and she initiated some kissing but it was clumsy and awkward. And we were both the same height!

So I met up with Lena this morning, had a capuccino gave her some cheese and stroop waffels. I thanked for raising the bar so high in my search for a partner.

[christianv]

 

[krassavchick]

Another one bites the dust!

I guess one of the first disappointments came just after Thanksgiving. I was in contact with the woman "A1" and described to her helping a friend do Thanksgiving dinner service via the church for some 30 less fortunate families. I had helped behind scenes on logistics after the church hall where the majority of the food was stored had burnt down.

We scrambled around getting new turkey’s, cranberry sauce, pumpkin pies, stuffing, potatoes etc.

I told her that I hope next week on Saturday than perhaps we would have something to grateful about. Anyways she went on Black Saturday to the Pinchuk and than wrote that she waited two hours and I did not show up. She was furious and could not believe I could do that to her. I apologized and said that we could stick to plan that was I was thinking but have not heard back.

Oh well she was a red head and under the sign of Taurus so perhaps for the better.

Odd flying from Amsterdam it was solid clouds below but as the plane started to depart the clouds disappeared and Kiev was sunny and is cold. Was met at Borisypol by my friend Yuliya and heard her travails with men. Have an simple apartment near the center for $ 60 per night, tonight a party at Ciro’s.

That's some serious logic there 

[AvHdB]

Saturday 3.XII.11

So Saturday saw me trying to organize meetings, I some times think I would make a good PPA, Persistent Personal Assistant.  I got sushied for the entire sum of 140 Gryvna’s, me myself and I were happy after the Sake. I walked to the center to Podil and saw one exhibition of paintings at the so-called Russian art museum. A note here try to see this and the Eastern/Western museum when the sun is the highest the light at dusk is very bad. The weather is beautiful, temperature of about 7 degrees sun and virtually no wind.

The walk was nice getting questions asked in Russians; I think I might get a tee shirt with the text “I am only a visitor” for my next visit. One the street were missionaries as well as a group from Gulang Fong movement as well as a big camp supporting Goldilocks. I got pestered by all of them.

Anyways my only meeting was with Inna a favourite.  She had slightly erotic photo’s of herself as well as playing with her son. Her story was interesting. I wrote to her at about the same time she decided that she did not want to be a teacher for the rest of her life. Her boy friend dumped her six months pregnant; what a gentleman.

By mid to the end of September she was comfortable in speaking conversational English. She laughed when I asked her if she learned the line “my first car was a limousine” Equally amazing is the fact that her English has only a hint of accent in it. Her biggest weakness in English is her limited vocabulary and basic grammar mistakes.

Digressing a bit I rarely wrote to women who indicated having a child but all you can see is Mamma in a bikini, at a club or holding her pet pouch.

A year ago to get a better salary and seeking more opportunity she moved to Kiev from Lugansk. She has a job in an International School. She left her son behind with her parents and grandmother. Once a month she returns to home to see her on and once a month her son together with Grand Mother or Great Grand Mother travels to Kiev.

With her son they joined me for dinner, the son was lively and seemed intelligent. Inna was in fact very petite but in perfect proportion. Lovely black hair and sparkling eyes. Without even trying she was sexy. The conversation in English was easy with each of asking questions and seeing how the other responded. She again repeated the fact that men tend to be very crude and demeaning on Love Planet.

Her son was easy to engage and seemed happy to play games with me. The son told Mom to bring me home with them! She smiled a coy smile. The biggest problem is perhaps the height difference which is greater than the age difference. Anyways we parted with me wondering if I would like to see her again?

So a general question what is the fastest time that a woman speaking a different language group has learned basic conversational English?

[Millaa]

So a general question what is the fastest time that a woman speaking a different language group has learned basic conversational English?

I think 3 months - for most of people... about 100 hours of lessons... Well, with great motivation a month will be enough

[krassavchick]

So a general question what is the fastest time that a woman speaking a different language group has learned basic conversational English?

I think 3 months - for most of people... about 100 hours of lessons... Well, with great motivation a month will be enouth

Depends what you mean by conversational?  If they're starting from Beginner level,  100 hours is enough to get them to Elementary.  It will be painfully basic.  Without a connection i just don't see why this would be worth the bother.  If there is a connection, then the effort would probably seem worthwhile

So a general question what is the fastest time that a woman speaking a different language group has learned basic conversational English?

I think 3 months - for most of people... about 100 hours of lessons... Well, with great motivation a month will be enough

Depends what you mean by conversational?  If they're starting from Beginner level,  100 hours is enough to get them to Elementary.  It will be painfully basic.  Without a connection i just don't see why this would be worth the bother.  If there is a connection, then the effort would probably seem worthwhile

[AvHdB]

“No one should know too much about their destiny.”

Sunday 4.XII.2011

So I meet with Natalia1 at the globe on Independence Square, it was short and did not even cost me coffee. I am not sure what to say except I suspect the feelings were mutual. She was 20 minutes late but being a woman I would consider that “on time”. I suspect she expected a gift of flowers or such. I think I was surprised how less attractive in appearance and how much harder in soul she was. Anyways there is no gain with out some loss. This loss was less than an hour in total.

This globe seems to be a popular meeting site for everyone, babushka’s to complain, lovers to liaison, and Mother’s to meet Sons, girlfriends to meet who ever. While pondering my destiny I thought of the subway thread regarding red roses.

After this I walked home, here a rather amusing incident occurred. I watched as an American couple with suitcases frantically tried to get some wall money. None of there credit or debit cards worked. The man cursing blindly the woman desperate as if being suffocated for lack of air (cash). I introduced my self and initially wary they understood that I was in fact American. I asked if they had authorized their credit/debit  cards for use in Ukraine. They seem dumbfounded. As they queried me they began to almost blame me for their travails. There was a final question can we get the embassy to give us money. I quickly left them to figure out the issues.

So my “dinner” date cancelled with a phone call and I planned in the afternoon with Yuliya to see an art exhibition/fair in the so-called arsenal or armory of Kiev. Towards the end of the tour I decided to text Inna and asked if she would like dinner together.

She was bringing her son and babushka to the train for the return to Lugansk so we agreed to meet at the train station Golden Arches. Outside here was a zoo with a variety of hustlers, sordid people and couples saying good-bye in one form or the other. Some painfully some gleefully. I was early so I walked inside the train station; while it is smaller than Grand Central Station the main hall has something of that feel. It is quixotic and over the top in some aspects. Busy and crazy. There are no signs in English so for neophyte such as I it could be a challenge. In any event I stared and studied. All of a sudden I heard hello and there was Inna before me.

How did you find me I asked, well you are tall, dress nicely and look lost, was the reply. Well at least one statement was true.

Anyways after some negotiating we found a taxi to take us back to the center. We discussed where to eat and I suggested Japan? Yes she beamed and she knew a place. It was nice, close to Independence square. Half way through the meal Yuliya and her new French squeeze showed up and a few minutes latter Olya. This is a school friend of Miss Y. Both Olya and Yuliya have there own businesses and struggle to make everything work. Yuliya spent a fair amount of time talking in Ukrainian to Inna, this is unusual seeing the fact where Inna is from.

The conversation was going from French, Yuliya is trying to learn the language to English to Ukrainian. It was fascinating ~ at times frustrating. One of the interesting comments is how easy it is for a French person to speak Ukraine and how they struggle with Russian. We discussed the common French/Russian words, bistro, puree, etc. I am sure there is a long list somewhere here.

At 10:30 we left and started home Inna wanted to walk and we stopped by my apartment where I went upstairs for a gift of Dutch cheese. Inna was delighted and we talked as I walked her home. The outside temperature is about 8 degrees and there is not too much wind or moisture about. The entire walk was about 45 minutes or about 5 kilometers. We talked about a relationship and I have a strong sense that Inna is waiting to see what happens with my other visits. She is aware that I am going to meet other women or perhaps she in fact is not that much into me.

What is odd there are many communalities between, we both prefer Scotch to Vodka as well as love Champagne, we like large dogs as pets, we like a quiet life style, we feel strongly for J. S. Bach. She appears fiercely committed to her son. She is hard working and industrious as well as clever.

I suspect that Inna has learned to be prudent with her emotions. 

So tomorrow, Monday, to the south.

[christianv]

So i guess it was a good Sinterklaas for you

[AvHdB]

Monday 5.XII.2012

“Roads? Where we're going, we don't need roads.”

So the trip to Nikolayev with my driver Yuriy was long! Yes the roads in Ukraine are improving my driver said compared to when in June he made the trip it was almost easy. But it was long, tiring and it seemed without end. I once drove in a day from Kansas to Milwaukee. I started that trip at 60 miles and hour and ended close 80 miles an hour average! Large parts of Ukraine are flat, for me used to Holland this is not such a problem, but it is a drive of about six hours. We were pulled over once Yuriy who has a Journalist Certificate, in fact he writes for paper in Boryispol, they let him go without a fine. At least now we know how Mendy zips about! Closer to Nikolayev the road becomes hilly as it follows the Southern Bug River and dips into some of the valleys. But it is still a long drive.

Yuriy commented that the women of Nikolayev and Herson are famous for their beauty and charm. I had a different vibe. Arriving in Nikolayev I discovered that in fact I am not the only one here to meet women. There is an A Foreign Affair in Nikolayev holding its tour.

I overheard American men whine “I do not think she is interested in me” Hearing the interpreter say, “You just do not understand the culture” makes me wonder. I could go on but I think you have the concept.

On the other side what shocked me was how slovenly and for lack of better word disreputable the men appeared. While I do not want to debate the dirty barrel theory, I wonder if there is an inverse for the Western men? Also surprising was the fact that the personnel from A Foreign Affair for lack of any other description were outright rude to the men attending the trip.

Oddly enough speaking with a couple guys they seemed content with their experience. One gentleman from California in construction was planning a vacation with his “woman” to Mexico, that he had met on this trip. So tomorrow (Tuesday) is the social to Kherson I tend doubt if I wish to pay the $350 to attend.

What I did NOT observe were any of the women, in a way a pity.

After meeting up with Igor phone calls began in earnest. Appointments were made and we will see. One thing occurred which was surprising. It seems as a rather pathetic prank some posted a profile and answered for a friend or enemy. In any event the very surprised young lady had an extensive conversation with Igor. It turns out that we will meet! It was her ex-husband who did the deed, she knew nothing of her profile on Love Planet.

Igor is good!

So tomorrow to “work”!

[AvHdB]

As I write up the last two days, I realize it is very quiet outside. I look out and it is snowing.      about two inches! OK I grew up in New England and snow is normal but this will complicate things I realize.

With my found memories in Kiev in the snow from two years ago I wonder what the future will hold today.

[AvHdB]

Tuesday 7.XII.2011 Nikolayev

Hey butthead!

Tuesday morning started with approximately 20 + men leaving the Continent Hotel to travel to Herson (Kherson) for the A Foreign Affair social there. Talk about some of them traveling light!

It was obvious that at least two of the members taking part were from Canada (eh) as well as Mexico (si) and it sounded like a thick "Scottish" accent from the Outer Hebrides, as well as a Bokki. 

After they departed I spoke with the waitress and she admitted the hotel and staff appreciated the tips greatly.  But out of respect to her I will not repeat ANY of her other comments. Except one member would be pleased to hear his theory confirmed.

For those who are new to RUA there is a resource to understand more about Nikolayev or Nikolayev.

http://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php?topic=6171.msg85743#msg85743

I had three meetings planned via Igor. The first with Lena. In fact this woman was early! We spoke at the café diagonally opposite the hotel and on the same side as the McDonalds. So everyone understands I am a pretty tolerant person. Her appearance with respect to her age was surprising she looked at least 5 years older. OK I am no spring chicken. She had a nose piercing OK I can study the stone. She had a tattoo; well maybe I can learn to appreciate this art form. But when she launched into her small (mini terrier) I politely ended the meeting.

NEXT!

The second woman made us drive out 15 kilometers, well I traveled more than 3,000 what is a few more. It was had now become pouring rain. She was as tall as I am, thin and elegant. A lawyer in local building firm she definitely has her act together. But she did not know where to go for the meeting. Smart and balanced but as I talked to her I realized she was/is a bit of a perfectionist and did not seem so flexible. She was though smart and well informed. Also she was proud of her law background and I realized a transfer to the west would mean learning a very different legal system.

Though I was impressed with her I wondered.

During this meeting I had something of an epiphany, I realized yes, I want to be with a woman who can make me happy but I want to be with a woman who will be happy with me. I know I am reducing this to a simple concept and it sounds almost crude but in fact I am looking for a connection that is two ways.

My last meeting was unusual the woman asking us to come out to the Soviet era housing development. We meet after some confusion and she was dripping sex and desire. She came with five-year-old daughter at 8 pm. She wanted to play Russian billiards; which I have never tried before. The child Nastya quickly become uncontrollable grabbing balls from the table and creating an unpleasant scene. The mother it seems was oblivious.

As for the pool I used to play in high school and for a while beyond both three ball European billiards and American pool. But this Russian version could explain why vodka was invented. The table is larger than any other that I have seen. The sides have different characteristics to what I was used to when the ball bounces off of it. But the most frustrating thing was the fact the size or width and angle of the pockets were smaller or narrower.

In any event there is a thread started regarding this sport here:
http://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php?topic=15873.0;topicseen

During this time I received a call from Christiaan V from Odessa and we spoke in Dutch for a while. The woman seemed annoyed that I was not playing.

The mother was only marginally interested or concerned in her daughter’s behavior and at one point when she was screaming I tried to calm her down she tried to hit me in my balls! Latter Igor tried to restrain her and with her heavy boots she stomped on Igor’s feet! Eventually after over two hours the evening ended and I gave a large tip. We named the two; the brat and the mother of the brat.

Me somewhat dejected Igor organized a taxi for Zhitomir to the North. We decided to leave at the rather unsocial time of 5 am Nikolayev.

Wednesday 8.XII.2011 Zhitomir

"If you put your mind to it, you can accomplish anything."

Our taxi was on time and while small we initially made good time. The countryside was covered with hoar frost and as the sun rose it was quite beautiful. When we left the main road between Odessa and Kiev, the roads become sub-standard. Eventually we stopped with an oil pressure issue. The oil had dropped to minimum level at the next gas station we refilled the reservoir and headed further north.

A rather dejected chauffer was happy to reach Zhitomir but there was a substantial oil leak under his car. He was afraid of how to return the almost 600 kilometers to his home. I paid him and gave a good tip, latter he called Igor to explain that the pressure monitor/gage had been damaged and this was the source of the oil loss.

Zhitomir seems to be one of the most depressing cities that I have ever seen in Ukraine. As the Germans advanced the city was heavily damaged and suffered further damage as the Second World War ended.

Mendy has written an article here about it:

http://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php?topic=6863.0

From my perspective the city reminds me of C. S. Lewis’s description in the Great Divorce, the grey town, a sort of Ukraine purgatory or hell depending if you stay or leave.

We had a simple lunch and confirmed our three meetings. The first was with Irina 24 years of age. She was on time, tall and slender. Beautiful brown eyes, sad and yet also hopeful. She said little and asked simple direct questions. She walked from her work to where we were staying in Hotel DoDo. Yes that is the name of the hotel!

She was sincere and it seemed almost simple. We talked for a long time and at one point commented that she felt like she was on a job interview. I decided that she was interesting and said can we walk and go into the town. She worked as a sort of micro credit agent. To me it seems she almost was a loan shark with breasts. But it seems the economy is at many levels on life support and this is a blood pack at over 30% interest pegged to the dollar!

She went and spoke to a woman on the market who had a small loan; from there we went to her office where I felt that I was being paraded as a trophy. At the end we parted but not before we found each other’s hands and discretely held hands as we walked about the city.

We parted ways with a hug and Igor took me across the street stopping in front of a café. His comment was well I hope she is not across the street with a spy camera. Why I wondered? Because Katarina will meet us here in five minutes. I had no idea of the time as my mind was still crunching the details of Irina. Igor is good even if he is a miserable pool player.

Katarina was about ten minutes late and she was dressed elegantly albeit with fake Burberry clothing. We talked and asked questions of each other. In fact she expressed extreme surprise at having the meeting at all. Most men it seems fall into two camps endless messages with never a meeting or at some point very crude suggestions. I explained that I wanted the women to study my profile and form an opinion but I dislike talking to some one who I have never met with the idea of a relationship. Katarina was amazed and said well this is different, complimenting us.

As for this conversation and the prior it seemed almost that Igor was not translating. With Igor quickly and in non emotional tone translating for us. I found it most useful if Igor sat next to me as I could study the woman’s reply and talk to her. Wanting to avoid the feeling of applying for a job I tried to keep the conversation to more banter level and exchange of opinions. Katarina was indeed elegant and intelligent she worked as an interior designer and graphic artist.

Divorced and fighting over the rights to her daughter. She was actively taking English classes but lacked the confidence to speak the language. She has been offered a job in Georgia but is still trying to obtain control of her daughter from her ex. I must admit for a variety of reasons I liked her. She was sexy, polished understood my work and was well, sophisticated.

We again walked around the city with her telling Igor that she disliked Zhitomir strongly. I teased her telling her where can you find so many depressing buildings and streets in one place. We parted promising to stay in touch.

So my final meeting was with Katja.

We took a taxi to the next meeting a 20 year old who I initiated the contact with, Katja. In fact today was Catharine day in Ukraine so she was very pleased to be being taken out for dinner.

Igor stated that he did not like being the fifth wheel and asked if he could excuse himself. In fact Katja as she liked to be called together with Irina were contacts that I created and “managed” but Katja is an English major and we spoke at length over dinner. While perhaps a bit plump she is a sweety. A more pure soul would be difficult to find in Zhitomir I think. Her parents and grand mother live about 100 kilometers to the south, she decided about 8 years ago to learn English and now is trying to figure what to do with her asset.

I asked if she wanted to teach English to either Irina or Katarina, she was ecstatic. It is just my own personal opinion but it is people such as these women in Zhitomir who do not have an easy time and yet remain upbeat, honest and forward looking that makes Ukraine and the people here a great country.

So in bed I pondered the pros and cons with a relationship with the so far three possibilities. But sleeping I had a long dream about winning a race in the worlds and ending in the top ten!

As I write this I have decided to stay in Zhitomir and would like to see either or Irina and Katarina again but first Marina and a side trip to Berdichev to the south by about 50 kilometers. This is a somewhat personal trip both the write we know as Joseph Conrad, Heart of Darkness & Under Western Eyes and well as Henri de Balzac are connected to the city by birth or marriage. Also there is a stunning monastery, plus there is Nadeja of Berdichev.

But it is now snowing! A risk that I was aware of before I left Amsterdam.

[RG]

..
After they departed I spoke with the waitress and she admitted the hotel and staff appreciated the tips greatly.  But out of respect to her I will not repeat ANY of her other comments. Except one member would be pleased to hear his theory confirmed.
...

Great TR, thanks. 

I have to ask, though - what theory would that be?
I suppose it's unfortunate that you named the hotel, as I'm sure people would like to know what was said about the "tours" by a local.

[Larry]

I'm enjoying reading your TR. It's interesting to hear your reflections on the women you have met during your WMVM trip, especially since my experience has always been WMVO.  You capture the nuances of these women's behavior in ways that we seldom see here.

I think Christian had the same view of Zhitomyr's charms.

[christianv]

I'm enjoying reading your TR. It's interesting to hear your reflections on the women you have met during your WMVM trip, especially since my experience has always been WMVO.  You capture the nuances of these women's behavior in ways that we seldom see here.

I think Christian had the same view of Zhitomyr's charms.

Ahhh.. yes the lovely Zhitomyr... 

http://www.qarp.com/0110/

Ive been very fortunate to have been in places far more depressing since...

The interesting thing about Zhitomyr is that its big enough to be 'self sufficient' so the people that live in Zito dont go to other cities that often.. this place is much like a gray vacuum of despair and sadness.

But NOT in snow!!! AvHdB, that must be hardcore!!!

[Millaa]

AvHdB, I'd like to express my sympathy for your VERY hard mission  looking forward for happyend 

[Larry]

I echo Mila's sympathy for AvHdB's very hard mission and hopes for a happy ending for him.

[AvHdB]

Hi, Thanks for the encouragement!

Leaving for Kiev shortly with two stops in between will finish report latter and post, but the snow has stopped it is only grey and cold.

[AvHdB]

Zhitomir & Berdichev  Thursday 8.XII.12

You've gotta do what you've gotta do.

So at 10 am we had our first meeting Marina, aged 31 two children in Zhitomir. This woman was graceful as well as beautiful, light brown hair framing sparkling brown eyes; in there own way they were little brown Christmas lights. Her generous smile lite up the room further.

The meeting started in a café and she admitted that she could understand and even speak English. But it was a skill that was rusty and she preferred to use Igor. In fact she was not only on Love Planet and also on a friends agency for foreign men looking for woman in the Zhitomir region. This friend was to join us. But she admitted her friend was extremely chaotic. We talked and even though Igor has heard the questions before he in animated manner translated my questions and managed to get Marina engaged and laughing!

Anyways the friend either forgot or went to the wrong café because we informed she was not coming.

One thing that surprised me and something I have never heard before she has no control of her children. While she sees them they live with the father. It begs the question, who is this man? She did not wish to discuss this matter further. For a variety of reasons I see this as a red flag.

It seems if there is a basic connection than perhaps it is a good idea to move out of the interview stage and go for a walk. So in the falling snow we walked, she fielded calls from her office, where she seems to be a senior manager. She took us around and in fact there are a few nice buildings in the city. First and foremost the Polish Catholic church. It retains some of its 18th century Baroque elements.

We walked three kilometers back to a restaurant in the falling snow and ate there as we continued to talk. She diffidently has potential, but.

We parted company after lunch and under the overcast sky headed to a smaller city called Berdichev. The snow had stopped but it was cold outside.  Under way I decided to see Irina again we sent message and we agreed to meet. I wanted to use the English student Katja. Igor was only too happy to oblige as he admitted he was not feeling so well.

There were two women that I had communicated with. The first Nadja was something of a firecracker in spirit. We met in a café called Amsterdam. She freely admitted that she was the best hairdresser of the city. She was as slender as a young teenager but she kicked her soon to be ex out three months into her second pregnancy! That child is just six months old.

She was very business oriented and did not even need the menu to order a simple sushi lunch! When it took to long she was rather irate and said time was money! I wondered privately about the time it took me to get to Ukraine. To me while Nadja is attractive I tend to doubt that there is enough communality to bind us together.

From this meeting that was about an hour we were given a quick drive tour of the main street of Berdichev shown the fortified Carmelite Monastery and the church where Henri de Balzac was married in. She did NOT know that just south of her town the writer Joseph Conrad was born and most likely baptized in the same church as where Balzac was married.

We first visited the church more of a large chapel of Balzac; we were received by what turned out to be the priest who gave us in Russian a great overview of the chapel and local history. I made some notes and will write this up latter.

We walked around the Carmelite Monastery, which appeared to be in major renovations. Getting inside was impossible but the guard dog, which eyed me warily, came up and allowed Igor to pet it. I tell you Igor is good with dogs and beautiful women!

From the Monastery we drove south by about 8 kilometers to the village where Conrad was born. Unfortunately darkness especially in sleet comes fast in Ukraine in December and by 8:30 we were using flashlight. The museum was closed even though it was supposed to be open till 6 pm. In the dark on the frozen ground we found the far larger home with a plaque noting here was Conrad born. If and a part of me hopes so I return to Zhitomir I want to come back here.

We returned to Berdichev and spoke with, Uliana. She wanted badly to meet me or so she wrote. When we called her she seemed reluctant and pushed the meeting back.  Anyways we meet in a forlorn and empty Chinese restaurant next to a big Ukraine army base. The room itself was large and rather cold, only I removed my jacket. Uliana 27 years old had also two children and while having studied in the military academy in Kiev, she was working in her mother’s second hand goods store. It seemed to be going badly.

It was in this Chinese restaurant eatery that I saw the famous squat toilets. Two for the ladies one for the gentlemen. There is a thread about this subject here:

http://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php?topic=11274.0

Uliana arrived dolled up in high heels, she was reasonably attractive and it seemed sincere. I talked and it seemed she answered but it was heavy weather to solicit an opinion or question from her. At some point she admitted this was the first “date” since separating from her husband, half a year ago. Further she was stunned that I came to meet her. It seems and this was a comment that to various degrees I heard before. The strategy to have few messages and no Skype or phone contact before the initially meeting is unusual. But no one complained or refused to meet with Igor and me.

On the drive back it was apparent that our driver had serious night vision issues or night blindness. In any event we survived but not without almost killing pedestrians in zebra’s and ending up in a ditch.  He refused to dim his high beams the entire trip!

We dropped Igor off and than I collected Katja before meeting with Irina we meet in a mega shopping center and sat before the ice skating rink and talked. I offered to pay and Irina accepted to take English classes with Katja and both women were very happy. Katja needed to return to her studies so we decided to go for a walk together. 

When a Ukraine woman says she wants to talk a walk make sure even if she is in high heels to be ready for a substantial distance.  We started walking at 8:30 in the evening and I was in a taxi to the hotel at just after 11:00 pm. along the ways we stopped and she pointed out objects and asked what is that. Sometimes I sneaked a kiss in and she seemed to like that too 

So I am back in Kiev now and we are waiting for our first meeting here, it is dark and around 8 degrees outside. I am always surprised at how quickly it becomes dark in Ukraine.

[AvHdB]

Friday 10.XII.11  Kiev, Three times Natalia

I don't know if I can make that kind of commitment.

We arrived in Kiev directly from Zhitomir. Part of me was happy to leave the city but I found myself wondering about the women who I had met there.

By 2 pm we had an apartment sorted out and we had taken the Metro to a café where we were to meet the first Natalia. 33 years old she had changed careers from Government Veterinary to managing a chain of Sushi restaurants. While attractive I sensed she and I were on completely different wave lengths and the meeting was short. She spoke little English and seemed amused that I would come to see her.

Walking to the café I observed an American showing a guide book to a rather attractive Ukraine woman and ask how do I get here. It did not work with the lady, she in reasonable English replying I will not tell. Handing him the book back and walking off in her high heals. Via mobile foon with another poster from RUA and we compared some notes about the process.

With Natalia the 2nd the meeting was held in the center and again this was with out a connection but she was an entirely different fish. It seemed she expected directly some commitment or promise of relationship.

She worked in a State owned Russian bank and would not describe her specific job. Her profile indicated an age of 31 but she said women do not have to disclose everything. She seemed older and more jaded. The meeting was interesting and it moved quickly from me asking the questions to her queering me. It was wide ranging and it lasted almost two hours, She was clearly clever and intuitive. She understood English but often relied to Igor. In the end she shoot her self in the foot by admitting she had a mini terrier. I must admit one of my favourite scenes in a movie is when Jack Nicholson dropped that yappy runt dog down the garbage disposal in “As Good as it Gets”

I walked her to the front door and returned, where we continued to organize further meetings. If one is going to in one form or the other go with the (WMVM) Write Many Visit Many program you should have a clear system of organizing who you are meeting and the specific details. Of course lining up three Natalia’s in the same day and in the same city can also lead to confusion. Not difficult if I am involved.

Natalia the last met us at Ciro's Pommodore near the same café and while initially seated in the bar the head waitress recognized me and we were moved to a prime table. We hardly spoke to each other as we sorted out dinner.

Natalia was lovely aged 41 with a 19 year old son in technical university. I have met women aged 35 to 55 in Ukraine and Russia and there often is a hardness that is distinctive and sad. Or there is way too much baggage as well as wear and tear.

Natalia though was elegant, slender and seemed to be amused at meeting me. She told us with only one exception she never replied to the foreign men who wrote her. While she understood English it was not a skill that she used and the conversation was sometimes via Igor with us often speaking to each other until there was a word block. It was interesting in the writing she wrote in English using a dictionary and Google.

We exited in lightly falling snow and walking arm in arm to the Metro. We agreed to meet on Saturday at the Pinchuk center at 11 am.

[AvHdB]

I keep pondering the woman, Marina, in Zhitomir, who has two children but her husband has full control of the children.

What is the reason?

Has anyone ever heard of this situation before?

[Millaa]

I keep pondering the woman, Marina, in Zhitomir, who has two children but her husband has full control of the children.

What is the reason?

Has anyone ever heard of this situation before?

If the parent is not an alcoholic or drug addict he (she) could not deprive kids
Its possible now if the kids father is oligarch