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Author Topic: 'What Is Love?' or 'How Important Is Finding Love In the FSU(w) Quest?'  (Read 2763 times)

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Offline Zachris

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Some very valuable posts to consider by all involved in this quest.

Quote from: andrewfi
Whilst it is true that one CAN fall in love with somebody sight unseen and very rapidly as Halo suggests, it is not normal, it is a danger sign in this context and I'd have expected anyone who was taking a pivotal role in advising and supporting a paying client to ensure that a strong note of caution was made. On the other hand I can also understand how a perceived need for a demonstrable success might lead to a lack of caution on the part of the paid advisor.

Quote from: Manny
I don't really buy "love at first sight". I believe there are many variants mistaken for love by the inexperienced. For example:

"Lust" at first sight - without a doubt.
"He doesn't look like an ape, can behave normally up to now, and seems to have money so I will likely marry him" on first sight - yes.
"Here might be a sucker who is unsocialised and will believe some flowery crap so I can steer him to the fur coat store" - often.
"I might shag this one so he will spend even more" - also often.
"She shagged me, so she must love me" - also often.

But love on first sight? Perhaps in Mills & Boon novels but not really in the real world in my view.

Remember, westerners usually seek to marry for love. Those in the FSU still marry "seemingly suitable types" on spec hoping love will develop later. The use of the word love in the FSU tends to differ too. There is much room for misunderstanding.


Quote from: Halo
Can you point to what is "normal" in deciding to pursue a mate with whom you share no common language (often necessitating the need for a translator), no common culture (often resulting in misunderstandings), and in 99.99% of cases, no common socioeconomic background?  If "normal" is the standard which should apply, you may as well shut this down and tell posters to fish at home.

In the end, all an advisor can do is weed out the obvious scammers.  He/she can't know the hearts of the individuals involved, nor should he/she be advising them on this issue.

As an aside, if I had listened to every person who told me my husband was using me, that I was too young to marry, that he would leave me, and if he had listened to those who told him that marrying a foreigner would ruin his life, the life of extended family, that his wife, who had returned abroad, was sleeping around on him, blah, blah, blah (both well, and not so well intentioned), I'd be a childless single woman today.


Not sure if the order presented here is best, but they all make good points. Perhaps, as the basis for a new discussion, we could ask each other: What is love? And, withing the context of the answer we give, how important is finding "love" in the FSUW quest?
Numquam tribuere ad malitia quod sufficienter explicatur stultitia.
Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.
Никогда не приписывать злобы, которое может быть адекватно объяснено глупостью.

Offline Brasscasing

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Re: 'What Is Love?' or 'How Important Is Finding Love In the FSU(w) Quest?'
« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2011, 01:56:38 PM »
Some quotes pulled from an OT&H topic currently running that one or two members feel is worthy of discussion in their own right...

What is love?

How important is finding love in the FSU(w) quest?

Anyone?

Brass
“I am a Canadian, free to speak without fear, free to worship in my own way, free to stand for what I think right, free to oppose what I believe wrong, or free to choose those who shall govern my country. This heritage of freedom I pledge to uphold for myself and all mankind."  ~ John Diefenbaker

P.S....Unless you happen to live in Quebec and are subject to the Quebec Charter Of Values, of course.

Offline Halo

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Re: 'What Is Love?' or 'How Important Is Finding Love In the FSU(w) Quest?'
« Reply #2 on: November 14, 2011, 02:00:53 PM »
Perhaps undefinable.

When my husband, as a child, asked what love is, he was told (pardon the language) "You will know it when you feel it in your heart, not your ****".)
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten


Offline Muzh_1

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Re: 'What Is Love?' or 'How Important Is Finding Love In the FSU(w) Quest?'
« Reply #3 on: November 14, 2011, 02:08:10 PM »
Well, I can repeat what some ladies in UA have told me numerous times; they'll marry for love.

Take my SIL. Quite a bit of pretenders but none to make her feel that je ne sais quoi. She may be the exception, but that does not rule out that UA women will marry for love.

I've heard Halo's definition too.

Offline Paul

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Re: 'What Is Love?' or 'How Important Is Finding Love In the FSU(w) Quest?'
« Reply #4 on: November 14, 2011, 02:12:56 PM »
Perhaps undefinable.

This.

For different people it means different things. I wouldn't have married someone I did not love or someone who I thought did not love me; it was important

Online andrewfi

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Re: 'What Is Love?' or 'How Important Is Finding Love In the FSU(w) Quest?'
« Reply #5 on: November 14, 2011, 02:30:17 PM »
Talking about love in the context of getting a woman's profile from some marriage agency and arranging for her speedy despatch to your country makes little sense.

There are good reasons why you blokes might fall in love and very good reasons why the women do not - even if they might hope to come to love you, or at the least, respect you.

The situation of the men and women in this context is too different to expect a commonality here.
...everything ends always well; if it’s still bad, then it’s not the end!

Offline Boris

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Re: 'What Is Love?' or 'How Important Is Finding Love In the FSU(w) Quest?'
« Reply #6 on: November 14, 2011, 02:41:54 PM »
Perhaps undefinable.

This.

For different people it means different things. I wouldn't have married someone I did not love or someone who I thought did not love me; it was important

Same for me. If I didn't think we shared "love" I would have rather remained single...

Offline Brasscasing

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Re: 'What Is Love?' or 'How Important Is Finding Love In the FSU(w) Quest?'
« Reply #7 on: November 14, 2011, 02:50:09 PM »
"Cupid's chemistry

Scientists are beginning to make sense of romantic love through modern imaging techniques and a multidisciplinary approach. Michael Gross uncovers the method behind the madness

In Short

•MRI scans have shown that love lights up parts of the brain linked to the reward system that can cause drug addiction

•Early stage romantic love activates different parts of the brain to sex drive and attachment

•Falling in love appears to reduce serotonin levels in the blood in a similar way to obsessive-compulsive disorders "

http://www.rsc.org/chemistryworld/issues/2006/february/cupidchemistry.asp

Something I once read and was holding for my bi line in time, it's especially apropos in this endevour...

"There are many things in life that will catch your eye, but only a few will catch your heart, pursue those."~ Unknown

Brass
“I am a Canadian, free to speak without fear, free to worship in my own way, free to stand for what I think right, free to oppose what I believe wrong, or free to choose those who shall govern my country. This heritage of freedom I pledge to uphold for myself and all mankind."  ~ John Diefenbaker

P.S....Unless you happen to live in Quebec and are subject to the Quebec Charter Of Values, of course.

Offline Slumba

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Re: 'What Is Love?' or 'How Important Is Finding Love In the FSU(w) Quest?'
« Reply #8 on: November 14, 2011, 03:05:37 PM »
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Love_Comes_Softly

Janette Oke  is an American writer of Christian themed, inoffensive schlock novels.  She seems to have figured it out ...

Anchors Rewoven

Online andrewfi

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Re: 'What Is Love?' or 'How Important Is Finding Love In the FSU(w) Quest?'
« Reply #9 on: November 14, 2011, 03:42:27 PM »
Yes, Brass, that's about it. The article covers the ground well.

Initially there is a hormone based reaction triggered by pheromones and other subconscious and not rational factors, this drops away over time and is replaced by longer lasting effects.

It kinda makes a mockery of the idea of love at first sight - and even more so of love BEFORE first sight.

BUT it makes perfect sense that one can CHOOSE to do without the hormonal stuff and the limerance effect that quickly follows and make rational choices that eventually, as seen from the studies cited in the article, become a long lasting love. However, in that circumstance, we can not talk about 'love at first sight' or even of falling in love because we have chosen to absent these options from the long term pair bonding processes.

But yeah, we guys we want to believe they love us even though they do not know us, or we have not even met, and so we can ignore everything and believe the guff that some women will try to tell us because  we NEED to believe
...everything ends always well; if it’s still bad, then it’s not the end!

Offline curiogeo7

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Re: 'What Is Love?' or 'How Important Is Finding Love In the FSU(w) Quest?'
« Reply #10 on: November 14, 2011, 08:07:15 PM »
Buds and I debated this endlessly.
 I was taught "love" was a choice.
 Men fall in love with their eyes, women fall in love with their ears.
 Love /Lust, I think Lust is the pheromone thing, and if it is with the right person, becomes "love".
 I will stay single till I am in love with a woman that loves me.
 My ex swiss miss, stated one partner always loves more then the other.
 with my ex wife,(14 years together), it was "love at first sight", the first time our hands touched, it was like a lighting strike, ( OK better, I have been struck, and felt like a mack truck hit me for about 4-5 days).
 Thank god we were both single, because from that moment on no one could get us away from each other. :nod:
 So why the divorce?
 We absolutely went in 2 different directions, but still close friends to this day. I never look back, or go back, just my thing.
You do not make others choices for them, do not let others make choices for you.

Offline ECR844

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Re: 'What Is Love?' or 'How Important Is Finding Love In the FSU(w) Quest?'
« Reply #11 on: November 14, 2011, 09:52:49 PM »
Perhaps undefinable.

This.

For different people it means different things. I wouldn't have married someone I did not love or someone who I thought did not love me; it was important

I agree with Paul and Boris

Offline Rasputin

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Re: 'What Is Love?' or 'How Important Is Finding Love In the FSU(w) Quest?'
« Reply #12 on: November 14, 2011, 11:02:22 PM »
Perhaps, as the basis for a new discussion, we could ask each other: What is love? And, withing the context of the answer we give, how important is finding "love" in the FSUW quest?

What is love? I am no poet, but simply knew it when I found it  :biggrin: How important was it? Extremely. I wanted to be with a woman that I loved and a woman whom I knew loved me. I did not want anything less  tiphat
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Offline Krassie

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Re: 'What Is Love?' or 'How Important Is Finding Love In the FSU(w) Quest?'
« Reply #13 on: November 14, 2011, 11:06:42 PM »
                       It Helps to Make the Right Decision.

Love or infatuation?

Infatuation is instant desire.It is one set of glands calling for another .

Love is friendship that has caught fire. It takes root and grows - one day at a time.

Infatuation is marked by a feeling of insecurity. You are excited and eager , but not genuinely happy. There are nagging doubts, unanswered questions about your beloved that you would just as soon not examine. It might spoil the dream.

Love is quiet understanding and the mature acceptance of imperfection. It is real. You are warmed by his/her presence, even when he/she is away. Miles do not separate you. But near or far, you know he/she is yours and you can wait.

Infatuation says,"We must get married right away. I can't risk losing you."

Love says, "Be patient. Don't panic. Plan your future with confidence."

Infatuation has an element of sexual excitement. If you are honest, you will admit it is difficult to be in one another's company unless you are sure it will end in intimacy.

Love is the maturation of friendship. You must be friends before you can be lovers.

Infatuation lacks confidence. When he/she is away, you wonder if he/she is cheating.

Love means trust. You are calm, secure and unthreatened. He/she feels that trust , and it makes him/her even more trustworthy.

Infatuation might lead you to do things you'll regret.

 Love never will.


And one more I want to add.

People from the same background usually have much more in common than people from different backgrounds, and mixed marriages have a higher  failure rate. People who do not accept others of their own background are nearly impossible to match. ( from one of the international dating sites)

Online andrewfi

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Re: 'What Is Love?' or 'How Important Is Finding Love In the FSU(w) Quest?'
« Reply #14 on: November 15, 2011, 05:50:53 AM »
Quote
People from the same background usually have much more in common than people from different backgrounds, and mixed marriages have a higher  failure rate. People who do not accept others of their own background are nearly impossible to match. ( from one of the international dating sites)

This last point makes so much sense that one wonders why it need ever be written, but then we read this forum and see that many, probably a majority of men here have rejected their peers and are seeking women who, by virtue of the fact the are seeking a foreign bloke have rejected theirs.

And then we wonder why it goes titsup for most people at some point, usually before marriage but for most of the remainder shortly thereafter.
...everything ends always well; if it’s still bad, then it’s not the end!

Offline Brasscasing

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Re: 'What Is Love?' or 'How Important Is Finding Love In the FSU(w) Quest?'
« Reply #15 on: November 15, 2011, 09:49:13 AM »
Yes, Brass, that's about it. The article covers the ground well.

Initially there is a hormone based reaction triggered by pheromones and other subconscious and not rational factors, this drops away over time and is replaced by longer lasting effects.

It kinda makes a mockery of the idea of love at first sight - and even more so of love BEFORE first sight.

BUT it makes perfect sense that one can CHOOSE to do without the hormonal stuff and the limerance effect that quickly follows and make rational choices that eventually, as seen from the studies cited in the article, become a long lasting love. However, in that circumstance, we can not talk about 'love at first sight' or even of falling in love because we have chosen to absent these options from the long term pair bonding processes.

But yeah, we guys we want to believe they love us even though they do not know us, or we have not even met, and so we can ignore everything and believe the guff that some women will try to tell us because  we NEED to believe

I agree with you, there is no such thing as love before personal contact. Prior to a meeting there can be attraction, friendship or even lust but not the male female bonding process we define as 'love', in effect, you are penpals until you actually meet.

I think the article is interesting because although the human race has written, talked, painted, debated, composed music/song even defined the concept in religious terms from the beginning of history itself, it still boils down to pheromones and chemicals. Science wins again!

It may be the one trait that all of humanity shares - love and our preoccupation with finding it. That and (all religions promise it) the answer to the universal question Is there life after death? :chuckle:

There may be a business opportunity here: For a fee we can hook your potential mate up and see if she/he lights up in all the right places...

Brass

“I am a Canadian, free to speak without fear, free to worship in my own way, free to stand for what I think right, free to oppose what I believe wrong, or free to choose those who shall govern my country. This heritage of freedom I pledge to uphold for myself and all mankind."  ~ John Diefenbaker

P.S....Unless you happen to live in Quebec and are subject to the Quebec Charter Of Values, of course.

Offline mobyone

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Re: 'What Is Love?' or 'How Important Is Finding Love In the FSU(w) Quest?'
« Reply #16 on: November 15, 2011, 01:39:12 PM »
Moby being 'different', again...

Look.. I readily admit to have 'fallen in love' with a woman I'd never met..    I thought her photo was 'nice'.. but she couldn't speak English well enough - and that was a MAJOR turn off...

But when I translated her letters - I realised that IF this woman and I could speak in a common language we MIGHT 'click'..

I made sure we met within weeks ( not months) and she was in no doubt of how I felt when we parted after the first 5 days together...

Our leader decided to meet his future wife quite quickly - and I know of a few other guys who didn't 'hang about'...

There is no hard and fast 'rule'..but he who hesitates is often 'lost'...

Sod the bloody analysis ....  follow your gut and see where it goes...




 

Offline Rasputin

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Re: 'What Is Love?' or 'How Important Is Finding Love In the FSU(w) Quest?'
« Reply #17 on: November 15, 2011, 03:01:42 PM »
In our case, my wife was the one who fell in love at first sight  :biggrin: I was definitely smitten by the end our our first date: six hours spend talking from 10pm to 4am at a local café. I have no doubts that she loves me  tiphat I don't know why any man would want to settle for anything less  ???
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