The World's #1 Russian, Ukrainian & Eastern European Discussion & Information Forum - RUA!

This Is the Premier Discussion Forum on the Net for Information and Discussion about Russia, Ukraine, Eastern Europe and the Former Soviet Union. Discuss Culture, Politics, Travelling, Language, International Relationships and More. Chat with Travellers, Locals, Residents and Expats. Ask and Answer Questions about Travel, Culture, Relationships, Applying for Visas, Translators, Interpreters, and More. Give Advice, Read Trip Reports, Share Experiences and Make Friends.

Author Topic: Not all endings are happy  (Read 16573 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline calmissile

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 584
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouses Country: US
  • Status: Engaged
  • Trips: 1-5
Not all endings are happy
« on: October 30, 2011, 09:55:56 PM »
I just got off Skype with a good friend that gave me some sad news.  He owns and apartment in Kiev and spends about 1/2 year in Kiev and half in the US tending to his businesses and ranches.  I know him well enough to believe what he tells me.

He just got word that one of this best friends in Colorado had married a Russian doctor some years ago and brought her and her son to the US.  Since she could not practice medicine in the US, he paid for her to go completely through college again and get her license in the states.  Immediately upon receiving her license she filed for divorce.  The whole thing cost him about $500K.  I have no reason to believe that the guy was guilty of anything other than falling in love with someone that is not honest.

I am going to try and get the details directly from the man and post them on the forum.  It is so seldom we get to hear about the train wrecks, it might be educational for some of us.  I am also curious as to whether they had a pre-nup and how the courts arrived at the financial settlement.

It sort of reminded me of some letters I got from a Ukrainian doctor that was intersested in me.  When I sent her my requirements for a wife, her response was "What! You expect me to work and then come home and prepare you dinner and clean the house?"   Funny, I never heard from her again :)

My fiance has just reminded me that she does not want to sit home and wants to work when she gets here.  I already know she is a very hard worker, a great housekeeper, great cook and mother of her daughter.  Hopefully I won't end up in the same situation as this fellow, but how do you ever know?  Prenups make good sense :)
Doug (Calmissile)

Offline krassavchick

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 609
  • Country: ie
  • Gender: Male
Re: Not all endings are happy
« Reply #1 on: October 31, 2011, 01:53:47 AM »
And here was me thinking from this forum that  it was only UM who scammed/pro dated    :'(

Offline krassavchick

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 609
  • Country: ie
  • Gender: Male
Re: Not all endings are happy
« Reply #2 on: October 31, 2011, 05:00:55 AM »
or should that have been UW  :biggrin:


Offline Zachris

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 834
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouses Country: Uzbekistan
  • Status: Married
  • Trips: 5-10
Re: Not all endings are happy
« Reply #3 on: October 31, 2011, 06:12:21 AM »
A very sad story, and something worth keeping in mind.

However, it may be also be worth acknowledging that we do not know all the circumstances here. The reasons for the divorce may have been "legit" and the pay through school merely coincidental. It happens.
Numquam tribuere ad malitia quod sufficienter explicatur stultitia.
Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.
Никогда не приписывать злобы, которое может быть адекватно объяснено глупостью.

Offline Boris

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3134
  • Country: us
Re: Not all endings are happy
« Reply #4 on: October 31, 2011, 06:25:56 AM »
You never can be sure , Doug. You just do your best. I think there are a lot more bad situations like this. We just never hear of them. 500k and a broken heart...Ouch...

Offline Rasputin

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5628
  • Country: ca
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouses Country: Russia
  • Status: Married
  • Trips: 10-20
Re: Not all endings are happy
« Reply #5 on: October 31, 2011, 07:08:18 AM »
Since she could not practice medicine in the US, he paid for her to go completely through college again and get her license in the states.  Immediately upon receiving her license she filed for divorce.  The whole thing cost him about $500K. 

I am also curious as to whether they had a pre-nup and how the courts arrived at the financial settlement.

When he says the cost was $500,000, does he not include the cost of paying her tuition fees while she was studying to become a doctor   ??? I expect that is the case, and if it is a pre-nup would not save him from money spent while in the marriage  :-X
"Seems I live in Russia Rasputin visited" - Millaa
"So do I" - Molly35ru

Offline Eduard

  • Commercial member
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5641
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
  • Skype: edthered90
    • realrussianmatch.com
  • Spouses Country: Russia
  • Status: Married
  • Trips: 20+
Re: Not all endings are happy
« Reply #6 on: October 31, 2011, 08:05:44 AM »
I noticed that some people who give pretty good advice on occasion often do not listen to their own advice and do the opposite. I'm not referring to any one in particular but it just shows that when things get close to home we tend to lose objectivity. It isn't too hard to tell if a person is honest and ethical or not before you bring them to the West. However some people choose to turn the blind eye on the obvious signs of dishonesty and later have to deal with the consequences. But off course nothing is a 100% certain in this world. All we can do is get as close as possible to the truth to hopefully prevent going through a break up.

Offline Larry

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5853
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
  • Status: Just Looking
  • Trips: 5-10
Re: Not all endings are happy
« Reply #7 on: October 31, 2011, 08:53:02 AM »
Quote
It isn't too hard to tell if a person is honest and ethical or not before you bring them to the West. However some people choose to turn the blind eye on the obvious signs of dishonesty and later have to deal with the consequences.

Quite true.  Many of us have a tendency to give the woman the benefit of the doubt.  But it is vital to keep your eyes open.  I was in a relationship with a FSUW some time ago and noticed something peculiar.  It wasn't anything major, but I asked her about it and she first she gave me an answer that was almost certainly false.  I didn't call her on it but kept my eyes open.  Later she admitted the truth, but in explaining her action she gave me a reason that was highly likely to be false.   Also she admitted to me that she lied to her parents in order to get them to keep giving her money.  And subsequently I caught her in several  more obvious lies about little things.  I realized that if she couldn't be trusted about little things she couldn't be trusted about big things.  I counted myself fortunate not to have gone further with her.  I'm pretty sure it would have cost me dearly.

Nice to see you posting Ed.

Offline Rasputin

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5628
  • Country: ca
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouses Country: Russia
  • Status: Married
  • Trips: 10-20
Re: Not all endings are happy
« Reply #8 on: October 31, 2011, 08:56:39 AM »
However some people choose to turn the blind eye on the obvious signs of dishonesty and later have to deal with the consequences.

But Ed, isn't all cultural  :hidechair:

Seriously, though, I agree with you entirely. None is as easily deceived as the one who refuses to see the plain truth for what it is  :biggrin:
"Seems I live in Russia Rasputin visited" - Millaa
"So do I" - Molly35ru

Offline Eduard

  • Commercial member
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5641
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
  • Skype: edthered90
    • realrussianmatch.com
  • Spouses Country: Russia
  • Status: Married
  • Trips: 20+
Re: Not all endings are happy
« Reply #9 on: October 31, 2011, 09:11:22 AM »
Quote
It isn't too hard to tell if a person is honest and ethical or not before you bring them to the West. However some people choose to turn the blind eye on the obvious signs of dishonesty and later have to deal with the consequences.

Quite true.  Many of us have a tendency to give the woman the benefit of the doubt.  But it is vital to keep your eyes open.  I was in a relationship with a FSUW some time ago and noticed something peculiar.  It wasn't anything major, but I asked her about it and she first she gave me an answer that was almost certainly false.  I didn't call her on it but kept my eyes open.  Later she admitted the truth, but in explaining her action she gave me a reason that was highly likely to be false.   Also she admitted to me that she lied to her parents in order to get them to keep giving her money.  And subsequently I caught her in several  more obvious lies about little things.  I realized that if she couldn't be trusted about little things she couldn't be trusted about big things.  I counted myself fortunate not to have gone further with her.  I'm pretty sure it would have cost me dearly.

Nice to see you posting Ed.
Thanks, Larry! I was extremely busy for a couple of weeks before leaving for Ukraine with Dugger2, but now my job is pretty much done since he's been kidnapped by his lady and I have more time to post.

Offline calmissile

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 584
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouses Country: US
  • Status: Engaged
  • Trips: 1-5
Re: Not all endings are happy
« Reply #10 on: October 31, 2011, 02:18:01 PM »
RAsputin, I don't know the details yet and I am not sure he wants to talk about it but I assume the $500K included the education and living expenses.  As I recall the university was in a different town or state.

Of course we don't know both sides of the story (Duh).  But to have made that kind of commitment and put someone through college and then be served for divorce at the graduation is awfully fishy :)

Your right about a pre-nup not reimbursing him for the eductaion expenses.  I was more interested in whether she also was able to milk him for any of his pre-marital assets. Considering that she allowed him to pay for her education before divorcing him, she may also be greedy enough to go after all she can get!

Hopefully I will be able to find out more details in the near future.  My main reason for making the post was to show that no matter how much in love you are,  there can still be sinister intentions well after the wedding bells:)

Eduard,  glad to see you are back with another success story.  Someday we need to have a beer together.

I should also mention that Ladagirl has been very active in helping us and the two of you are a great service to the members.
Doug (Calmissile)

Offline Rasputin

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5628
  • Country: ca
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouses Country: Russia
  • Status: Married
  • Trips: 10-20
Re: Not all endings are happy
« Reply #11 on: October 31, 2011, 03:05:12 PM »
RAsputin, I don't know the details yet and I am not sure he wants to talk about it but I assume the $500K included the education and living expenses.  As I recall the university was in a different town or state.

He would have been paying anywhere between $30k and $60k a year in tuition plus all the other living expenses. That adds up pretty quickly  :o

Quote
But to have made that kind of commitment and put someone through college and then be served for divorce at the graduation is awfully fishy :)

Of course it is  :-X The warning signs were likely there, simply ignored.

"Seems I live in Russia Rasputin visited" - Millaa
"So do I" - Molly35ru

Offline krassavchick

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 609
  • Country: ie
  • Gender: Male
Re: Not all endings are happy
« Reply #12 on: October 31, 2011, 03:11:21 PM »
RAsputin, I don't know the details yet and I am not sure he wants to talk about it but I assume the $500K included the education and living expenses.  As I recall the university was in a different town or state.

He would have been paying anywhere between $30k and $60k a year in tuition plus all the other living expenses. That adds up pretty quickly  :o

Quote
But to have made that kind of commitment and put someone through college and then be served for divorce at the graduation is awfully fishy :)

Of course it is  :-X The warning signs were likely there, simply ignored.



That's the harshness of it but i'd say true !!!


Offline Muzh_1

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 6317
  • Country: tz
Re: Not all endings are happy
« Reply #13 on: November 01, 2011, 07:42:01 AM »
RAsputin, I don't know the details yet and I am not sure he wants to talk about it but I assume the $500K included the education and living expenses.  As I recall the university was in a different town or state.

Of course we don't know both sides of the story (Duh).  But to have made that kind of commitment and put someone through college and then be served for divorce at the graduation is awfully fishy :)

Your right about a pre-nup not reimbursing him for the eductaion expenses.  I was more interested in whether she also was able to milk him for any of his pre-marital assets. Considering that she allowed him to pay for her education before divorcing him, she may also be greedy enough to go after all she can get!

Hopefully I will be able to find out more details in the near future.  My main reason for making the post was to show that no matter how much in love you are,  there can still be sinister intentions well after the wedding bells:)

Eduard,  glad to see you are back with another success story.  Someday we need to have a beer together.

I should also mention that Ladagirl has been very active in helping us and the two of you are a great service to the members.

Your friend should take her to court and demand alimony based on her income as a doctor. I promise you the court will be extremely sympathetic to him.

Offline Eduard

  • Commercial member
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5641
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
  • Skype: edthered90
    • realrussianmatch.com
  • Spouses Country: Russia
  • Status: Married
  • Trips: 20+
Re: Not all endings are happy
« Reply #14 on: November 01, 2011, 09:57:14 AM »
RAsputin, I don't know the details yet and I am not sure he wants to talk about it but I assume the $500K included the education and living expenses.  As I recall the university was in a different town or state.

Of course we don't know both sides of the story (Duh).  But to have made that kind of commitment and put someone through college and then be served for divorce at the graduation is awfully fishy :)

Your right about a pre-nup not reimbursing him for the eductaion expenses.  I was more interested in whether she also was able to milk him for any of his pre-marital assets. Considering that she allowed him to pay for her education before divorcing him, she may also be greedy enough to go after all she can get!

Hopefully I will be able to find out more details in the near future.  My main reason for making the post was to show that no matter how much in love you are,  there can still be sinister intentions well after the wedding bells:)

Eduard,  glad to see you are back with another success story.  Someday we need to have a beer together.

I should also mention that Ladagirl has been very active in helping us and the two of you are a great service to the members.

Your friend should take her to court and demand alimony based on her income as a doctor. I promise you the court will be extremely sympathetic to him.
I was just gonna say the same thing. From what I heard it goes both ways for men and women. As far as I know he CAN sue her for alimony based on her income earned as a doctor. She probably doesn't know that yet, so it will be a "nice" surprise for her :))

Offline Brasscasing

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 8299
  • Country: ca
  • Gender: Male
  • Status: Committed
  • Trips: 1-5
Re: Not all endings are happy
« Reply #15 on: November 01, 2011, 10:03:22 AM »
RAsputin, I don't know the details yet and I am not sure he wants to talk about it but I assume the $500K included the education and living expenses.  As I recall the university was in a different town or state.

Of course we don't know both sides of the story (Duh).  But to have made that kind of commitment and put someone through college and then be served for divorce at the graduation is awfully fishy :)

Your right about a pre-nup not reimbursing him for the eductaion expenses.  I was more interested in whether she also was able to milk him for any of his pre-marital assets. Considering that she allowed him to pay for her education before divorcing him, she may also be greedy enough to go after all she can get!

Hopefully I will be able to find out more details in the near future.  My main reason for making the post was to show that no matter how much in love you are,  there can still be sinister intentions well after the wedding bells:)

Eduard,  glad to see you are back with another success story.  Someday we need to have a beer together.

I should also mention that Ladagirl has been very active in helping us and the two of you are a great service to the members.

Your friend should take her to court and demand alimony based on her income as a doctor. I promise you the court will be extremely sympathetic to him.
I was just gonna say the same thing. From what I heard it goes both ways for men and women. As far as I know he CAN sue her for alimony based on her income earned as a doctor. She probably doesn't know that yet, so it will be a nice surprize for her :))

Be careful here fellas. Note the OP used the plural in businesses and ranches. Depending on whether or not Doug can get more details, $500,000 may not have been such a bad hit. :chuckle:

Brass
“I am a Canadian, free to speak without fear, free to worship in my own way, free to stand for what I think right, free to oppose what I believe wrong, or free to choose those who shall govern my country. This heritage of freedom I pledge to uphold for myself and all mankind."  ~ John Diefenbaker

P.S....Unless you happen to live in Quebec and are subject to the Quebec Charter Of Values, of course.

Offline Muzh_1

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 6317
  • Country: tz
Re: Not all endings are happy
« Reply #16 on: November 01, 2011, 11:15:19 AM »
RAsputin, I don't know the details yet and I am not sure he wants to talk about it but I assume the $500K included the education and living expenses.  As I recall the university was in a different town or state.

Of course we don't know both sides of the story (Duh).  But to have made that kind of commitment and put someone through college and then be served for divorce at the graduation is awfully fishy :)

Your right about a pre-nup not reimbursing him for the eductaion expenses.  I was more interested in whether she also was able to milk him for any of his pre-marital assets. Considering that she allowed him to pay for her education before divorcing him, she may also be greedy enough to go after all she can get!

Hopefully I will be able to find out more details in the near future.  My main reason for making the post was to show that no matter how much in love you are,  there can still be sinister intentions well after the wedding bells:)

Eduard,  glad to see you are back with another success story.  Someday we need to have a beer together.

I should also mention that Ladagirl has been very active in helping us and the two of you are a great service to the members.

Your friend should take her to court and demand alimony based on her income as a doctor. I promise you the court will be extremely sympathetic to him.
I was just gonna say the same thing. From what I heard it goes both ways for men and women. As far as I know he CAN sue her for alimony based on her income earned as a doctor. She probably doesn't know that yet, so it will be a nice surprize for her :))

Be careful here fellas. Note the OP used the plural in businesses and ranches. Depending on whether or not Doug can get more details, $500,000 may not have been such a bad hit. :chuckle:

Brass

Not so fast.

Business and ranches prior to them marrying seems to me a non-issue. However, paying the whole enchilada of medschool while being married is a very different story.

Offline Brasscasing

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 8299
  • Country: ca
  • Gender: Male
  • Status: Committed
  • Trips: 1-5
Re: Not all endings are happy
« Reply #17 on: November 01, 2011, 11:42:07 AM »
Not so fast.

Business and ranches prior to them marrying seems to me a non-issue. However, paying the whole enchilada of medschool while being married is a very different story.

Rereading the OP again, I'm not sure if it's the friend who owns the ranches that this happened to or a friend of the rancher making it a friend of a friend...

Anyways, the courts will not be prejudicial in alimony rulings. In otherwords, if he's financially secure, the court won't award just so he gets his money back.

Brass

 
“I am a Canadian, free to speak without fear, free to worship in my own way, free to stand for what I think right, free to oppose what I believe wrong, or free to choose those who shall govern my country. This heritage of freedom I pledge to uphold for myself and all mankind."  ~ John Diefenbaker

P.S....Unless you happen to live in Quebec and are subject to the Quebec Charter Of Values, of course.

Offline kievstar

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 830
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
  • Status: Married
  • Trips: 20+
Re: Not all endings are happy
« Reply #18 on: November 01, 2011, 11:45:37 AM »
What was the age difference?  Also, what was education level of the man - a woman getting a higher degree and making more can cause issues.

In Houston area seems about every week we know someone new getting a divorce or not happy with AM.  In almost every case you can see a man marrying way out of his league and not having any children together. 

Also, do not assume that paying for college is a down payment on a relationship.  You should only give money you wish to never see again and expect nothing for it.


Offline calmissile

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 584
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouses Country: US
  • Status: Engaged
  • Trips: 1-5
Re: Not all endings are happy
« Reply #19 on: November 01, 2011, 11:45:50 AM »
The business and ranches are a non issue.  It is my friend in Tuscon/Kiev that has  the businesses and ranches.  It is best friend in Colorado that got burned by the Russian doctor.  Perhaps I did not make it clear enough in the first paragraph.  My friend is returning to Kiev in a couple weeks.  Hopefully he can get the info from his friend in Colorado before he leaves.
Doug (Calmissile)

Offline calmissile

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 584
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouses Country: US
  • Status: Engaged
  • Trips: 1-5
Re: Not all endings are happy
« Reply #20 on: November 01, 2011, 11:52:21 AM »
kievstar,  your quote:
"Also, do not assume that paying for college is a down payment on a relationship.  You should only give money you wish to never see again and expect nothing for it."

Seems like a strange comment to me.  They were already married and living in the US.  I never thought about never seeing money I gave to a wife or the family as never seeing it again.  Just seems out of context for a marriage :)


Doug (Calmissile)

Offline Brasscasing

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 8299
  • Country: ca
  • Gender: Male
  • Status: Committed
  • Trips: 1-5
Re: Not all endings are happy
« Reply #21 on: November 01, 2011, 12:14:37 PM »
kievstar,  your quote:
"Also, do not assume that paying for college is a down payment on a relationship.  You should only give money you wish to never see again and expect nothing for it."

Seems like a strange comment to me.  They were already married and living in the US.  I never thought about never seeing money I gave to a wife or the family as never seeing it again.  Just seems out of context for a marriage :)

Thanks for the clarification Doug (friend of a friend).

Seeing money again: Within the context of the marriage maybe, however, I'm not sure if expecting return on investment (sponsoring a spouse's education to a profession) once divorce proceedings are initiated is actionable. Seems to me you pay the money and take your chances the marriage won't fail (just like any other marriage).

Do you know if he adopted the child?

Brass
“I am a Canadian, free to speak without fear, free to worship in my own way, free to stand for what I think right, free to oppose what I believe wrong, or free to choose those who shall govern my country. This heritage of freedom I pledge to uphold for myself and all mankind."  ~ John Diefenbaker

P.S....Unless you happen to live in Quebec and are subject to the Quebec Charter Of Values, of course.

Offline calmissile

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 584
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouses Country: US
  • Status: Engaged
  • Trips: 1-5
Re: Not all endings are happy
« Reply #22 on: November 01, 2011, 01:17:19 PM »
I don't know any more details than I have already provided.  Hopefully we can more as time goes on.
I agree, pay your money and take your chances as in any marriage :)
I don't know enough to know if there were warning signs before marriage that were ignored or not.  I think it is a little premature to make the assumption that there were.
Doug (Calmissile)

Offline calmissile

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 584
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouses Country: US
  • Status: Engaged
  • Trips: 1-5
Re: Not all endings are happy
« Reply #23 on: November 03, 2011, 10:05:40 PM »

I just got an email back from my friend that answered some of my questions about the divorce with the Russian/American doctor.  I don't want to identify the parties so I have just copied his email and corrected a couple of minor typos.

I find one of the sentences telling.  Along with the bleeding hearts that have argued the pre-nup issue on another thread, she did not want one and used the being in love excuse to get him to marry her without one.  Something to think about!

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Doug,

I did talk to him. He said he did not get a pre -nup. He wanted one but she didn't want to go along with it. He was not showing his love for her by asking for such a thing. You know the drift. So he married her anyway and now has big regrets of course.
 
He said the Immigration Dept did their best to tell him to think very long and hard before marrying her because they said from their experience most of the time these Russia- Ukrainian marriages don't work out. Of course he told them that they were in love and was aware of the pitfalls. And he married her anyway. Now he says they were right and he should have listened to them.
 
He said that when you go in for your interview you are going to get the same kind if advice because they tell every man the way it is.
 
Something to think about!
 
I got the impression he did not want to go into the details of the divorce settlement.
 
Bob
 
Doug (Calmissile)

Online B.B.

  • Supporting Member
  • Moderator
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4803
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
Re: Not all endings are happy
« Reply #24 on: November 03, 2011, 10:32:49 PM »
Your friend should take her to court and demand alimony based on her income as a doctor. I promise you the court will be extremely sympathetic to him.

I don't know anything about Colorado law, but I can tell you that, in NY, he'd have a property interest in her medical degree.

B/B
Saving the World, One Clue at a Time
If your religion insults my intelligence, don't be surprised when my intelligence insults your religion.