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Author Topic: How the story turned out for American man & Russian woman: Don't touch me, marry  (Read 23629 times)

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Online 2tallbill

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Phil, I think you made some egregious errors but you managed to get through
them with you life and sanity intact.

One of the mods said I was mean to you (privately he said this) and after
reflection on those comments I agree.

I apologize

I hope all is well with you

Udachi!

Bill
FSUW are not for entry level daters. FSUW don't do vague FSUW like a man of action so be a man of action  If you find a promising girl, get your butt on a plane. There are a hundred ways to be successful and a thousand ways to f#ck it up
Kiss the girl, don't ask her first.
Get an apartment not a hotel. DON'T recycle girls

Offline Philnatseaman

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Phil... I had a similar experience with a Russian Ukraine woman from Kz.  Online relationship May2001 until first visit Dec 2001... AndrewFi has it described exactly (when relations were warm, best love I had ever experienced). Second visit Dec 2002, Work assignment to her country July 2003, Married in KZ Sept 2003, Her son was 12 when we married.  The controlling ways started showing just after the wedding, but I could suffer the hate swings because the loving times were so deep-felt.  We moved to USA Jan 2005, and she obtained USA passport Oct 2010, Divorced Jan 2011 (same month Son turned 18).  I would not change if I had to do it over again, as I had the longsuffering kind of love for her, and I still love my step-son even today!

I understand, and your feelings make total sense to me.  There are parts about my BPD ex-fiancee that I still miss.  In truth, most of what I miss were really just my own idealized fantasies of how I projected things would be. I miss what could have been (if only...) rather than what actually was.  I've gotten better and faster at instead calling to mind her random mood swings, her coldness, and the pure evil demon that would show itself on a regular basis.  Usually picturing us on opposite sides of the courtroom in family court snapped me out of it.  That, and the good times weren't quite good enough, and nowhere near frequent enough, to put up with the downside.  At least you got your share of actual good times mixed in.

In truth, I got a priceless education in dealing with sociopathic* behavior.  I learned a lot, and it has helped me make sense out of a lot of things in this world that were very puzzling before my experiences with her.  I understand politics much better, for one, particularly national & international politics.

*The criminal justice types flip the terms, and refer to a sociopath as a psychopath, and vice versa.  Dr. Robert Hare, vs. Dr Martha Stout, "The Sociopath Next Door". I prefer Stout's terminology.

It sounds like you possibly got off easy from the family court standpoint too, with the son turning 18 and not being stuck for years of child support.  I'm also not hearing from you that the divorce was contentious and expensive--so you were very fortunate, it seems.

My observation from all this is that most people have a hard time understanding what it's like being in relationship with a BPD or NPD.
AndrewFi is the one person I've run across here who has always been spot-on with his comments and insight on anything involving a relationship with a BPD woman.

I don't know if he has any specific advice for helping the 18 year old son (who I assume is normal rather than personality-disordered) but if he does I would sure try to follow it. The son is probably going to have some long-term emotional scars from dealing with the mom for all those years.  With any luck you were able to be a preventive influence on that along the way.

Offline Philnatseaman

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Phil, I think you made some egregious errors but you managed to get through
them with you life and sanity intact.

One of the mods said I was mean to you (privately he said this) and after
reflection on those comments I agree.

I apologize

I hope all is well with you

Udachi!

Bill

I made major errors all along the way, right up until the time I got a restraining order and had her removed.   Out of all the dumb things I did, the one reasonably smart thing I did was to not give in to her pressure and marry her quickly.  I was very fortunate to have the education be less costly than some of the other horror stories I've read here in the Train Wreck room.

My agenda here has been to share my story so that others can learn from my mistakes. I've done my best to present things as accurately (and reasonably impartially) as I can.  The constraint of course, is that people are only getting MY point of view, not hers.  I've got some interesting updates from Scout, the guy who was helping her. I will post them  here if I have time.

Bill, I hope in my responses to you, I didn't say anything that was out of bounds.  I apologize if I did.  I wish you peace and prosperity.


Offline Slumba

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I have come across a pretty interesting link that talks about BPD and how the BPD can really enmesh you in their dysfunction.

http://gettinbetter.com/needlove.html (more general)

http://gettinbetter.com/key.html (specific to BPD)

And other pages on that site.

One thing I read somewhere else - the guy said that his BPD girl, "smelled" absolutely fantastic to him, even when she was not wearing perfume; that it was just some kind of heady natural scent.  Did you notice any physiological things like that?

Anchors Rewoven

Offline Philnatseaman

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Here is an email chain from a while back. Names & #'s have been changed. Scout, the man who tried to help her, emailed me acknowledging he had been duped, and that Nastya had confessed to multiple people that he rape story was made up.  She has been successful in milking it for a "U" Visa thus far.

I forwarded Scout's email to the detective who "signed on" to her "U" Visa request, that his "star witness" now acknowledges that her entire story was a lie. (Scout did not know at the time he helped her that it was a lie).  The response from the detective?  Crickets chirping.  Zippo, zilch, nada.

Scout has subsequently contacted me to get other information to share with USCIS and other enforcement agencies, to expose the U visa fraud.
If you ware wondering about the Julia Biryukova reference, just google her name.  Or read this article:
https://www.nationalparentsorganization.org/blog/20507-a-year-after-sky-metalwala-s-disappearance-julia-biryukova-living-off-state-taxpayers
Note Ms. Biryukova's cleverness in gaming the system and the system's total lack of interest in prosecuting an obvious crime.
Sociopaths (e.g., BPDs like my ex and probably also Ms. Biryukova) love, love, love "setup" scams where the setup is so good that multiple things work together for them, like getting you to dig your own grave, just before they push you in.


==================================================================
To: detectiveIBenPunkt@co.mycounty.wa.us
Cc: Scout@McTool.com
Subject: Nastya Bardalinkova "rape" case--she has admitted allegations were false, made up. Another Julia Biryukova wasting precious resources

Hello Detective I. Ben Punkt,
I understand that you have helped Ms. Nastya Bardalinkova fill out a "U" crime victims visa application.
She has admitted her allegations against me were false.  Those she confessed to are willing to testify to this.
I suggest that instead of helping Ms. Bardalinkova with her fraudulent "U" Visa application, you should withdraw support for this, and contact Mr. McTool.
Ms. Bardalinkova also confessed to Scout McTool's son, Rusty McTool, and his wife, that her allegations against me were fraudulent.  She also acknowledged this to Mr. McTool's wife, Alla.  And now Ms. Bardalinkova mocks the stupid American system for how easy it was to dupe everyone.
As I understand it, filing a false police report is a crime.  That is exactly what Ms. Bardalinkova knowingly did.
I ask that you do the following:
1) Please contact Mr. Scout McTool at your earliest opportunity, to discuss the case, and hear his information about Ms. Bardalinkova's confession that her allegations against me were false.  His #'s are 360-555-7777 home, 360-555-4444 cell.
2) After contacting Mr. McTool, I suggest you contact USCIS to share the new information you have.
3) Discuss with the prosecutor about filing charges against Ms. Bardalinkova for filing a false police report, and other appropriate sanctions.
Part of the issue here is that Ms. Bardalinkova is beginning to engage in a pattern of this type of behavior.  Protecting innocent citizens from malicious false allegations, and avoiding the wasting of precious law enforcement and court resources should make it worth pursuing.   A serial false accuser like Ms. Bardalinkova needs to be stopped before she can ruin or attempt to ruin more innocent lives.  We are dealing with a mentally ill woman.  She is unstable in a way similar to Julia Biryukova, the woman who "lost" her 2-year-old daughter when she ran out of gas.
Please help put a stop to this serial false accuser before she damages more innocent people's lives and wastes massive amounts more of law enforcement and court resources.
Sincerely,
Phi Natseaman

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject:    RE: Reconnecting Daria with the other half of her family
Date:    Wed, 8 Feb 2012
From:    Scout McTool <Scout@McTool.com>
Reply-To:    <Scout@McTool.com>
To:    Phil Natseaman <Natseaman@gmail.com>
Hi Phil,
 Thanks for the information!
 I have something you might be interested in.
3 different people have told me that Nastya has been bragging how she made up the whole rape story. (for a U-visa)
They would be willing to tell the police their stories.
Also I got Nastya's address, she is in USA but not Washington state.
She sure played me, and I would like to see her get in trouble over her false police reports.
I have no contact with either her or Daria because Nastya is stopping Daria from contacting me, but Daria will find a way and contact me again ....soon I hope.
 Cheers,
Scout

Online andrewfi

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Re: How the story turned out for American man & Russian woman: Don't touch me, m
« Reply #215 on: September 18, 2013, 02:58:44 AM »
Slumba, don't you recognise the scent of your woman? Don't you find it exciting and a turn on?

I thought that was normal.
"For what else is the life of man but a kind of play in which men in various costumes perform until the director motions them offstage?" -Erasmus

Offline Philnatseaman

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I have come across a pretty interesting link that talks about BPD and how the BPD can really enmesh you in their dysfunction.

http://gettinbetter.com/needlove.html (more general)

http://gettinbetter.com/key.html (specific to BPD)

And other pages on that site.

One thing I read somewhere else - the guy said that his BPD girl, "smelled" absolutely fantastic to him, even when she was not wearing perfume; that it was just some kind of heady natural scent.  Did you notice any physiological things like that?

No, my ex-fiancee simply smelled like any other chain-smoker.

In the second link you supplied, the stuff under ""STEP INTO MY PARLOR," SAID THE SPIDER TO THE FLY" is pretty much on-point.

From the same author and site, this link is very much on target for this discussion too:
http://gettinbetter.com/deathtrap.html


Offline Mikeav8r

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I have come across a pretty interesting link that talks about BPD and how the BPD can really enmesh you in their dysfunction.

http://gettinbetter.com/needlove.html (more general)

http://gettinbetter.com/key.html (specific to BPD)

And other pages on that site.

One thing I read somewhere else - the guy said that his BPD girl, "smelled" absolutely fantastic to him, even when she was not wearing perfume; that it was just some kind of heady natural scent.  Did you notice any physiological things like that?

No, my ex-fiancee simply smelled like any other chain-smoker.

In the second link you supplied, the stuff under ""STEP INTO MY PARLOR," SAID THE SPIDER TO THE FLY" is pretty much on-point.

From the same author and site, this link is very much on target for this discussion too:
http://gettinbetter.com/deathtrap.html

Then her name rang true...Nasty.  I am glad you came out of this with balls in tact unlike so many others.  tiphat
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2.  If you want to give God a good laugh, tell him your plans. - Anon

Online andrewfi

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One issue in all this is that it becomes easy to ascribe all faults and failings to BPD. In that last linked article that seems to be happening.

Folks with BPD have clear and identifiable traits but I think it does us no favours to blame BPD for everything. It certainly does not help real BPD sufferers.
"For what else is the life of man but a kind of play in which men in various costumes perform until the director motions them offstage?" -Erasmus

Online AvHdB

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One issue in all this is that it becomes easy to ascribe all faults and failings to BPD. In that last linked article that seems to be happening.

Folks with BPD have clear and identifiable traits but I think it does us no favours to blame BPD for everything. It certainly does not help real BPD sufferers.

That is very true, but it seems so hard to find a strategy to move forward with them. Having a son with Asperger's as well my brother in the same situation while nothing is perfect you can find means and techniques that can help everyone.

It seems almost impossible with BPD/BDP.
“If you aren't in over your head, how do you know how tall you are?” T.S. Eliot

Online andrewfi

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It is almost impossible for people with BPD to form long lasting and close relationships

On the upside, over 70% of those diagnosed with BPD, if they live long enough, are able to live relatively normal lives; the symptoms tend to abate across the late 30's.
"For what else is the life of man but a kind of play in which men in various costumes perform until the director motions them offstage?" -Erasmus

Online AvHdB

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It is almost impossible for people with BPD to form long lasting and close relationships

On the upside, over 70% of those diagnosed with BPD, if they live long enough, are able to live relatively normal lives; the symptoms tend to abate across the late 30's.

Based on seeing two such relationships - my feeling it is very hard for those who suffer to see how toxic they are. That they improve leaves me scratching my skull.
“If you aren't in over your head, how do you know how tall you are?” T.S. Eliot

Online andrewfi

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It is almost impossible for people with BPD to form long lasting and close relationships

On the upside, over 70% of those diagnosed with BPD, if they live long enough, are able to live relatively normal lives; the symptoms tend to abate across the late 30's.

Based on seeing two such relationships - my feeling it is very hard for those who suffer to see how toxic they are. That they improve leaves me scratching my skull.

I did not say that relationships improve, although new ones might well be better than earlier ones. I noted that the symptoms of BPD tend to abate.

Most people who have mental issues are unable to understand that they have a problem, that is normal.
"For what else is the life of man but a kind of play in which men in various costumes perform until the director motions them offstage?" -Erasmus

Offline Philnatseaman

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One issue in all this is that it becomes easy to ascribe all faults and failings to BPD. In that last linked article that seems to be happening.

Folks with BPD have clear and identifiable traits but I think it does us no favours to blame BPD for everything. It certainly does not help real BPD sufferers.

Agreed.  There are major differences between individuals with BPD, and also with NPD.
With BPD there seem to be 2 flavors, "Acting Inward" and "Acting Outward", with the differentiation that the Acting In type tends to direct a lot of their destructive behavior at themselves, e.g., cutting.  The Acting Outward type directs the destructive behavior more at others.  I've only seen this discussed a few times in different sources, and most of the literature is focused on the acting outward type, as they inflict the most damage on others.

Also a factor is the degree of Antisocial Personality Disorder (APD) traits present, manifesting as sociopathic behavior.  I believe my ex-fiance probably had a high degree of this going on.  The resources are confused and conflicting on APD, in that different "experts" use different labels, and group behaviors in ways that seem less useful (to me) in understanding the situation.  The sociopathic behavior (using Dr. Martha Stout's terminology, not Dr. Robert Hare's) often points to BPD or NPD. I tend to recognize the "codependent of a sociopath" behaviors in people, but have to have a lot more data to know if BPD, or NPD, or neither is a factor. Generally all I can do is point people to resources and suggest they take a look to see if that's what might be in play. One pair of gals at the office concluded their (female) boss seemed to have NPD behaviors.  A gal from the office I dated turned out to have a BPD (male) boss, but to me it seemed like he was fairly low on APD traits, e.g., as a BPD, she was his "close person" who he feared being abandoned by. He would do things behind her back to stifle her career, with the objective of keeping her in his chain of command, but at the same time he tried to take care of her in other ways.  She, being a major codependent, played right into his games.

My hope is that those reading my story will be able to identify enough commonalities or non-commonalities to determine if BPD (or NPD) is likely a factor in their situation.
A lot of BPD behavior will look very similar to NPD behavior if you are on the receiving end.  I think of them as two peas in a pod, and in fact often both are present, but one is more prominent. My ex-fiancee had a significant NPD streak to her behavior, but in the end, my belief is that BPD was much more the core issue.

I would certainly defer to AndrewFi on the prospects for getting a dear one help with BPD (or NPD).  In my case, my ex-fiancee was absolutely not interested in getting any sort of help, and to her, "I" was the one with problem, not her.  In my case, the risks to me were so sky-high, I had to confront her with the situation and ask her to get an assessment.  Her response was the predictable, "I don't have BPD, YOU have BPD". (Stop Walking On Eggshells, among others, predicts this will be the response in most cases)  My "wicked stepmother" is also BPD, and when my father arranged for us to do family counseling, the wicked stepmother bailed after two sessions, because "I", as a 17-year old, was the one the counseling should have focused on, and the therapist began asking HER to change her behavior.  So I am  0-for-1 in having any success with getting a person with BPD meaningful help, and 0-for-2 overall in seeing close people with BPD actually engage with any kind of professional help.  Clearly there are a lot of people out there with BPD that do seek out help, and do get better.  With my ex-fiancee, I had to make a call based on a time deadline, risk factors, and her insistence that the problem was 100% me, not her, so my call was to GET OUT.

Offline Philnatseaman

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Update:  Nastya is still in the USA, in the Los Angeles area.  After working as a volunteer, she says (on resume) she is working, apparently as some sort of equipment support person at a hospital.  If true, good for her.  However, she has a history of falsifying her resume, so it's hard to tell what's true.
Nastya probably has permanent residency by now, as it's been 2 years since her fraudulent "U" Visa application.

Her daughter Daria is still in that area now, and would be over 18 by now.  She looks about the same, and seems to be healthy and doing OK.

I have not heard from Scout in well over a year. 
I did find out in an earlier conversation with him, that he now understands his wife Alla is autistic, I think he told me that she was diagnosed as this in her old country.  Based on what I have seen and learned, It makes sense.  It also seems to make sense why she had an ongoing love/hate "friendship" with Nastya.  An autistic with a BPD.  BFF match made in heaven?  It's Scout's information on the diagnosis, not mine.  The last time I saw Alla was at the gathering at her and Scout's house, where she drank much vodka and repeatedly told me, "If you do not marry Nastya, I will keeel you!"  I think she came up to me and said that to me about 20 times that night.  Scout has complained how Alla is like a robot, and needs a tremendous amount of structure and routine to function.  I do not claim any special knowledge in in this area, simply sharing data.

I'm still seeing the gal who helped me through this mess, though it's been off and on, we seem to keep coming back to each other.

The reason I was here looking at this thread again is that I just got back from visiting my younger sister, and she is still struggling with issues involving our wicked stepmother Mallent (short for Malificent), who I realized is a classic BPD, as a result of my experience with Nastya.  Different from Nastya, yes, but with many, many of the same patterns.  Mallent was actually a doting, adoring wife to my father.  My father died about 5 years ago.  Since day 1, 35 years ago, Mallent has been extremely cruel and evil to my younger sister.  My younger sister was "Daddy's little sunshine" growing up.  Naturally, a BPD views that as a threat, and basically, the storyline is pretty much straight out of Cinderella, except without the wicked stepsisters.  My sister is an awesome gal, has four great kids now in their teens and early 20's, supportive husband, has done very well economically, educated, all-around great gal.  She is also still devastated by our father's emotional abandonment of her once wicked stepmother Mallent entered the picture. 

The final dig my Mallent, was at my father's funeral, to omit nearly all mention of his children (me, my sister, and older brother), and to list my ex-wife, his daughter in law, as a "daughter" in the memorial service program and obituary.  Not "ex-daughter-in-law", but "daughter".  It was a dig calculated to hurt my sister.  It did, tremendously.  Mallent allied with my ex-wife, to try to be "Grandma" to my children, something she and my father could do together, and she didn't feel it as a "threat" to receiving my father's exclusive loving attention.  At the same time, Mallent and my father shunned my sister's children, who are great kids, just like mine.  By shunning and denigrating her children, it meant my sister would be around my father less.  Typical sick, cruel (and unnecessary) BPD manipulation.

Given my experiences, one positive outcome of this is that I feel reasonably equipped to help people recognize, understand, and deal with sociopaths, particularly Borderlines with a side helping of Antisocial Personality Disorder, which I'm pretty sure are the boxes that best describe Nasty.  I am trying to help my sister understand the "pull" that BPDs, like our wicked stepmother Mallent, can have on close people in their lives (like my father), and how that affected our father.  Mostly, I'm trying to get her to take our father off the undeserved pedestal she put and kept him on, understand how he got sucked in, the strength of the BPD "brainwashing", and forgive him, and forgive Mallent, so she can move forward with her life. I hope to help her stop resenting Mallent and accept that it was our father's choice to go down that path, because of his own wounds, and Mallent bandaged up one huge emotional wound of my father's, while opening another almost as large.

The emotional wounds Mallent bandaged for my father?  My father's 23-year-old mother abandoned him when he was about age 5, running off with a boyfriend her age, leaving the violent, abusive 50-year old father, leaving him and his 1 younger/3 older brothers with that man.  His 50-year-old father died a year later, and then they all went to live with a foster family.  So he missed out on the years of adoration and motherly structure from age 5 on.  Mallent supplied the adoration and a very organized and structured approach to life that my father apparently needed.  Sadly, sickly, she chose to view my sister as a threat for his affection, and to attack her and denigrate her in his eyes.  He was so needy for her love that he then proceeded to behave in a testicle-free way, instead of standing up and making being a father to his children a priority.  (Mallent has no children)

When my father's mother passed away 10 years ago, he did not attend her memorial.  That spoke volumes to me about the wounds he still carries.
Wish me success with my sister.

I want to express again my appreciation and gratitude to everyone in this thread, who gave me such helpful advice.  Some of the early posts in particular were nearly psychic in hindsight.  I was fortunate to escape without loss of life and limb, without jail time on false allegations, and without any more economic damage than I'd already sustained.

If I learn anything new relative to Nastya, Daria, Scout, etc. in the next year, that is relevant to this story, I'll try to come back here and post an update.