What I Know About Russian and Ukrainian Women

[kenny2112]

i just notice a global trend and reality

A true fount of wisdom  I hope you do understand that some of us are happily married to wonderful RW 

...and have friends there. The guys tend to tell me pretty much what you are saying but they don't want me talking to any woman that they are interested in or their girlfriends.

[longingforthesouth]

I agree with upsylon to a large degree. I'm very curious to know his age (sorry for asking private question, let me explain why)

Maybe my assumption is completely wrong, but I think that the misunderstanding between upsylon and those who disagree with him arises from the following:

Most of the westerners here are mature men (ussually middle aged) and they are courting or are married to more mature FSU ladies (+40). Some of these ladies are divorced mothers, raised on the old soviet values and that's why they are more family-oriented. Younger guys like me rarely come into contact with these mature ladies and when it happens by accident, I see that they are really friendly, educated, we can talk about lots of subjects etc.

I think that these mature gentlemen fail to understand the problems that we, the younger guys are facing. I remember the legendary thread by Cosmo from Finland (hehe , he got lots of good advices from you guys, but they would NOT work for someone dating a 20 and something student.

I'm courting girls in their 20's and early 30's and I must agree with upsylon that there are lot of bad women, such as he described. Blatant materialism, egoism, brutal bitchiness, arrogance, players, timewasters etc... They don't want to make a "cosy home" with you. They want:

Group a) Money, gifts, exotic trips, partying, visa ect. (it's terrible, but I can understand this, who doesn't want?)
Group b) Nothing. Just timewasters - the worst of the worst. They join sites out of boredom. They would reply you without even bothering to check your profile. They consider long letters "boring" and they ussualy communicate only in one-liners, without even asking "how are you" in return. Many of them sit on dating sites for ages cause it's free, obviously not looking for anyone.

There are 1000's of decent american, british, french, italian, german, swedish, dutch and japanese men that they can choose from (or they can choose me, why not, I'm relatively attractive, intellectual and I live quite well), but NO, they "still cannot find the 'adequate' one" among 1000's of suitors. Yeah, sure.

Ussually these girls have boyfriends (there's no reason for a young and attractive girl to be single, she has plenty of locals and non-locals to choose from). Vkontakte, Odnoklassniki and Moy Mir are your friends. Don't be suprised to see photos of them kissing (and much more) with their local boyfriends. No, these women are not just a minority of "rotten apples", they are taking over. The good ones are now a minority of "good apples".

Forget luckylovers, EM and other sites aimed at western customers. There, they write what you want to hear ("cosy home, likes cooking and babies"). A great depcition of what I'm talking about can be found on the russian sites such as loveplanet.ru (not LPM) or mamba.ru, where profiles are ussually filled with garbage such as: "I'm a stervochka (bitch), you can't have me" (with photos on the verge of pornography) or "Not allowed for foreigners!! no outside Moscow!! no turks, no americans, no caucasians (lists ethnic slurs: churki, hachi)" or "I'd trade for no less than BMW, no less than 185 cm height, no less than 25 cm. penis, no less than a vacation in Seychelles, NO THIS, NO THAT!" or "Send gifts if you want a reply! ect...ect".. Why they became so spoiled, arrogant and decadent?

First, the FSU is no longer an isolated part of the world, they are not immune to the global "bitch" trend promoted by the showbusiness. We live in a time of GLOBALISATION. They don't grow with the Red Ridding Hood but with Lady Gaga and "Sex & the City". Their mothers or grandmas suffered to find a decent husband in a country where there was a disbalance between the female and the male populations, see for example the film "Moscow doesn't believe in tears". But now young women have internet, which helps them to be reached by MILIONS of domestic and foreign men. They are a product placed on a huge market now. They receive too much attention, men buy them gifts, pay dinners and vacations, men travel across the globe to unknown countries and go through various troubles to meet them! Well, I would too become spoiled if I was in a such position!

Only Stalin for such women! What Stalin? Beria! Give them a spade in their hands and let them showel cow shit in a kolkhoz in the freezing Kolyma.

Even russian guys get very frustrated (whom you consider privileged because "they have lots of women to choose from" which is NOT really true, depends on one's situation like everywhere). I'd gladly post you examples. Yes, there are VERY VERY GOOD russian women, GOOD AS BREAD, I KNOW, been there, done that many times. I nearly married one of them! Long story.Though she was just a teenage student when we met, she was very serious and responsible person plus sexy, clever and beautiful, all inclusive!

But such are rare and it's not easy to find one. They don't sit all day on dating sites, they study, work and do other useful things. Or, they are already TAKEN. Many of them don't want to even join a dating site, or they delete their profiles, because those sites become more and more discusting (prostitutes, scammers, fakers, various perverts, vulgar men etc...) and they don't want to be members of a such online community anymore.

The conclusion is, I'm glad that many of you have found happiness, no I'm not envying or anything, I wish you luck (knock on wood against bad spells, 'break a leg'), but you must not be blinded by your own personal happiness.

There's a lot of sh.. in this dating business, lots of false advertisement, lots of myths. And try to understand the younger guys (like Cosmo for example), as I'm trying to understand how you look at things from your perspective of mature men.

Also, a message to the russian ladies, don't always take a personal offence when someone is argumentatively criticizing the bad FSU women. It happens too much on many forums that FSU women unite and kick a foreign guy just for telling the truth. And western men ussualy jump in their support either blinded by their own family happiness or probably hoping to win the ladies' affection or out of pure 'gentlemenism'.

Sorry for my long post and the harshness, no I wasn't frustrated or anything, but once someone has to say as it is. (well, actually, there was nothing on TV)
Cheers to all!

[Rasputin]

Let's see, when I met my wife she was 26, never married, no children. I was 36 then and had no problem finding decent women to date. Continue on with your generalizations longing, but I will simply say that it comes across as sour grapes to me...

[longingforthesouth]

Let's see, when I met my wife she was 26, never married, no children. I was 36 then and had no problem finding decent women to date. Continue on with your generalizations longing, but I will simply say that it comes across as sour grapes to me...

Let's see when I met my wonderful ex-GF in Russia, whom I had a 4 yr serious relationship with, she was 19, I was 29. Two examples are not the norm Rasputin. Do you understand russian? Open the russian language sites. We should look further than our noses. Now I understand, you take it personally when someone is saying bad things about fsu women, cause you are married to one, but no one offended your wife. I wish all the best to you and your wife (knock on wood, so that evil would not hear and spoil everything, old superstition )

[Rasputin]

Longing, I am fluent in Russian. Again, continue on with your generalizations... You made bad choices and are bitter. I get it!

[longingforthesouth]

Longing, I am fluent in Russian. Again, continue on with your generalizations... You made bad choices and are bitter. I get it!

A cheap way to undermine someone's opinion: "you're bitter", "sour grapes". The next will probably be: "look yourself in a mirror", "get laid" ect. So predictable.

I never generalized. I said "THERE ARE GOOD RUSSIAN WOMEN, GOOD AS BREAD!" in caps and bolds but you don't see it.

I concentrated on the dark side, cause this thread is started by an ukrainian who wanted to share his or her knowledge on the bad sides of the fsu dating. I'd gladly share my positive experiences, but not here

[AvHdB]

Southern Boy,

Welcome here, you make a few good points and I also agree with the difference of women raised under the Soviet regime and those of say the last twenty years.

But there are many women between the age of 26 to 34 who can make a good partner, not with standing a large age difference. Of course if you do not use due diligence you will experience something expensieve.

So tell us a bit more about your self.

AvHdB

[simo82]

@ longingforthesouth.
Does being 29 class as being middle aged these days??? hell that means im 5 years away from mid life crisis!
Sorry i will have to agree to disagree, However i do agree on some of your points, but i think people looking to marry/ date etc, should be looking away from the major cities as in my humble opinion, they attract the type of men and women that lose their core values.........of course there are always exceptions to these rules, so i dont generalise.
Personally my wife is from the west of Ukraine, and although she has been to England (This is how i met her and eventually plucked up the courage to talk to her) this still doesn't detract her from her core values.
I think those that are on these dating sites are caught in an industry where to make a little bit of money they do pro date, scam or whatever, but noit every single person on Dating sites are out to sting you for all your hard earned money.....
Good luck to everyone who is still looking, hang in there, never send money, and go meet these girls!!!! totally worth it!
Simo

[longingforthesouth]

Southern Boy,

Welcome here, you make a few good points and I also agree with the difference of women raised under the Soviet regime and those of say the last twenty years.

But there are many women between the age of 26 to 34 who can make a good partner, not with standing a large age difference. Of course if you do not use due diligence you will experience something expensieve.

So tell us a bit more about your self.

AvHdB

Hi AAvHdB, I know, I have a fsu dating experience.  Not only from 26-34! As I said, my first fsu gf was only a teenager, I was in my late 20's, when we started a 4 years of relationship and in the end we nearly got married. So, there are good fsu women of every age, even among the very young ones!

After that, I've dated other girls of various ages, from teens to late 20's. I had several shorter relatioships and some hmm adventures. Weirdly, some teens were more serious than the women in their late 20's, whom you'd expect to be more mature ("mature", my a$$, but let's not go into details). I also had some unsuccesful dates or met wrong women, which helped me to understand that not all FSU women are angels.

I've never been scammed and I don't intend to be. Also, I've never gone through divorce, dv charges or other extreme stuff some other men went through. But, it doesn't mean that I should not talk about the bad sides of the fsu dating. Been there, done that, I experienced both nice and some bad situations, so I allow myself to voice my opinion.

[upsylon]

I agree with upsylon to a large degree. I'm very curious to know his age (sorry for asking private question, let me explain why)

Maybe my assumption is completely wrong, but I think that the misunderstanding between upsylon and those who disagree with him arises from the following:

Most of the westerners here are mature men (ussually middle aged) and they are courting or are married to more mature FSU ladies (+40). Some of these ladies are divorced mothers, raised on the old soviet values and that's why they are more family-oriented. Younger guys like me rarely come into contact with these mature ladies and when it happens by accident, I see that they are really friendly, educated, we can talk about lots of subjects etc.

I think that these mature gentlemen fail to understand the problems that we, the younger guys are facing. I remember the legendary thread by Cosmo from Finland (hehe , he got lots of good advices from you guys, but they would NOT work for someone dating a 20 and something student.

I'm courting girls in their 20's and early 30's and I must agree with upsylon that there are lot of bad women, such as he described. Blatant materialism, egoism, brutal bitchiness, arrogance, players, timewasters etc... They don't want to make a "cosy home" with you. They want:

Group a) Money, gifts, exotic trips, partying, visa ect. (it's terrible, but I can understand this, who doesn't want?)
Group b) Nothing. Just timewasters - the worst of the worst. They join sites out of boredom. They would reply you without even bothering to check your profile. They consider long letters "boring" and they ussualy communicate only in one-liners, without even asking "how are you" in return. Many of them sit on dating sites for ages cause it's free, obviously not looking for anyone.

There are 1000's of decent american, british, french, italian, german, swedish, dutch and japanese men that they can choose from (or they can choose me, why not, I'm relatively attractive, intellectual and I live quite well), but NO, they "still cannot find the 'adequate' one" among 1000's of suitors. Yeah, sure.

Ussually these girls have boyfriends (there's no reason for a young and attractive girl to be single, she has plenty of locals and non-locals to choose from). Vkontakte, Odnoklassniki and Moy Mir are your friends. Don't be suprised to see photos of them kissing (and much more) with their local boyfriends. No, these women are not just a minority of "rotten apples", they are taking over. The good ones are now a minority of "good apples".

Forget luckylovers, EM and other sites aimed at western customers. There, they write what you want to hear ("cosy home, likes cooking and babies"). A great depcition of what I'm talking about can be found on the russian sites such as loveplanet.ru (not LPM) or mamba.ru, where profiles are ussually filled with garbage such as: "I'm a stervochka (bitch), you can't have me" (with photos on the verge of pornography) or "Not allowed for foreigners!! no outside Moscow!! no turks, no americans, no caucasians (lists ethnic slurs: churki, hachi)" or "I'd trade for no less than BMW, no less than 185 cm height, no less than 25 cm. penis, no less than a vacation in Seychelles, NO THIS, NO THAT!" or "Send gifts if you want a reply! ect...ect".. Why they became so spoiled, arrogant and decadent?

First, the FSU is no longer an isolated part of the world, they are not immune to the global "bitch" trend promoted by the showbusiness. We live in a time of GLOBALISATION. They don't grow with the Red Ridding Hood but with Lady Gaga and "Sex & the City". Their mothers or grandmas suffered to find a decent husband in a country where there was a disbalance between the female and the male populations, see for example the film "Moscow doesn't believe in tears". But now young women have internet, which helps them to be reached by MILIONS of domestic and foreign men. They are a product placed on a huge market now. They receive too much attention, men buy them gifts, pay dinners and vacations, men travel across the globe to unknown countries and go through various troubles to meet them! Well, I would too become spoiled if I was in a such position!

Only Stalin for such women! What Stalin? Beria! Give them a spade in their hands and let them showel cow shit in a kolkhoz in the freezing Kolyma.

Even russian guys get very frustrated (whom you consider privileged because "they have lots of women to choose from" which is NOT really true, depends on one's situation like everywhere). I'd gladly post you examples. Yes, there are VERY VERY GOOD russian women, GOOD AS BREAD, I KNOW, been there, done that many times. I nearly married one of them! Long story.Though she was just a teenage student when we met, she was very serious and responsible person plus sexy, clever and beautiful, all inclusive!

But such are rare and it's not easy to find one. They don't sit all day on dating sites, they study, work and do other useful things. Or, they are already TAKEN. Many of them don't want to even join a dating site, or they delete their profiles, because those sites become more and more discusting (prostitutes, scammers, fakers, various perverts, vulgar men etc...) and they don't want to be members of a such online community anymore.

The conclusion is, I'm glad that many of you have found happiness, no I'm not envying or anything, I wish you luck (knock on wood against bad spells, 'break a leg'), but you must not be blinded by your own personal happiness.

There's a lot of sh.. in this dating business, lots of false advertisement, lots of myths. And try to understand the younger guys (like Cosmo for example), as I'm trying to understand how you look at things from your perspective of mature men.

Also, a message to the russian ladies, don't always take a personal offence when someone is argumentatively criticizing the bad FSU women. It happens too much on many forums that FSU women unite and kick a foreign guy just for telling the truth. And western men ussualy jump in their support either blinded by their own family happiness or probably hoping to win the ladies' affection or out of pure 'gentlemenism'.

Sorry for my long post and the harshness, no I wasn't frustrated or anything, but once someone has to say as it is. (well, actually, there was nothing on TV)
Cheers to all!

I would like to thank you for this wonderful post which sums up and joins exactly what i think. some here would better read it again and again...

I will reply longer later but i totally agree.

A major part of FSU women are like i described, an increasing part i would say, it doesn't mean "all" because exceptions always are.

category A is about materialism.. garbage girls who don't even respect themselves, how can they respect you and have interest in you. For your cateory B, very true:
They can't see differences between serious men and bad ones because they don't even try to find out WHO they are, after "how are you, what do you do" your discussion is over meaning they don't care of knowing deeply the person, not curious in his person in itself, his values, they have nothing to say, nothing to ask, you are always obliged to ask they barely reply and of course never ask anything about their interlocutor except pictures. they absolutely don't care of the inside of men, his qualities, intentions, character, views, degree of seriousness in his search, values, features, eventual similarities... NO they even don't look at your profile! it's useless to fill a complete profile they are not interesting in anything.. are like empty bottles who think they are the best and we should even be grateful to a beginning of reply!, they are unable to love, unable to have emotional involvement, unable to transmit attention, unable to go in people's soul and mind, often arrogant, unable to be interested in the inner richness and man's content and not curious of his life.  They just want to feel by men the high esteem they have of themselves already , nothing more. "Look what you should deserve how wonderful i am do you think you will achieve to attract my intention?" hey we are equals. personally i always focus on my interlocutor's content, who is she and if she has simple, pure and heart and soul. But it is difficult to know because they don't have necessary basic and elementary good sense, too based on egoism and selfishness. personally for long term relationship i won't care of a doll if she is empty, boring, uninteresting, not curious, cold, vanitious, superficial, egoist, stupid... i won't say her what she only expects (and heard thousands of times already anyway) ''oh you have very beautiful eyes, you are so pretty" i will try to know the person she is, but often for her all what matters is receiving attention and compliments (while she could be the worst evil) from dozens of men . Developping deep dialogue, building , process of reciprocal interest is quite impossible with these women. They love themselves first of all, and love what the man can bring or do for her, not the man himself. "Tell me i'm a goddess and give me your car, i will study then your case"... they behave often as pests, most of them have zero human quality, they think make up and a good dress make her the best while they are the worst.
as you said on dating sites plenty are there coz it's free and is entertainment for them, not looking for anyone and waste time of serious men, the sites are happy to welcome them to have greater data base to attract more fishes... but soon you notice these girls are there for nothing and not for serious relationship, how loving without heart, after all no man deserves my intention, i'm too good for them..

i don't understand men who buy them gifts, you can't buy a heart, especially bad and perverted... if a woman feels interest to a man, she doesn't need flowers, jewels or cars, she needs to know more about him and to go furtherin the discussion... but it's already too much asked. they are too drown in their emptiness and superficiality.

ps: to answer your question, under 30

[longingforthesouth]

@ longingforthesouth.
Does being 29 class as being middle aged these days??? hell that means im 5 years away from mid life crisis!
Sorry i will have to agree to disagree, However i do agree on some of your points, but i think people looking to marry/ date etc, should be looking away from the major cities as in my humble opinion, they attract the type of men and women that lose their core values.........of course there are always exceptions to these rules, so i dont generalise.
Personally my wife is from the west of Ukraine, and although she has been to England (This is how i met her and eventually plucked up the courage to talk to her) this still doesn't detract her from her core values.
I think those that are on these dating sites are caught in an industry where to make a little bit of money they do pro date, scam or whatever, but noit every single person on Dating sites are out to sting you for all your hard earned money.....
Good luck to everyone who is still looking, hang in there, never send money, and go meet these girls!!!! totally worth it!
Simo

Hi Simo!

In the very beginning of my post, I said "maybe my assumptions are completely wrong" (I'm not saying that I'm always right, tho I ussualy am) and "most of the westerners here are middle aged..." (not all of them, but I assume most of them are)

I'm very very glad for your success, but one swallow does not a summer make

Now I will be a little bit ironic. You say "go and meet those girls, it's worth it" and you even suggest searching in smaller places, outside of the major cities, though you were lucky enough to meet your girl in England I assume she was a student of english, so even the language was not a problem.

As far as I can see, you didn't have to travel to an uknown country for the first date somewhere in a god-forgotten town such as Stakhanov, Novoshakhtinsk or whatever, where absolutely no one speak english, risking various troubles?

I have dated in both major cities and in some small towns which most people can't find on a map. I even communicate with girls from restricted cities in Russia, tho it's immposible to get there.

In a small industrial or mining town, you can get a really hot girl... extremely! the women there are fantastic.

However, what if the girl does not show up? Or what if there's no mutual sympathy?

If she's a bitch (and many, esspecially the most attractive ones, unfortunatelly, ARE such), she will tell you goodbye and leave you without even saying "thank you for the dinner", let alone saying "thanks Simo for flying to me 1000s of miles all the way from London to my native Muhosransk".

You my friend, will be stucked in an completely unattractive grey industrial city of like 30.000 people, with nothing to do, no sightseeing, no nightlife, nothing. Chernobyl.

And you know why she can get away with such behaviour? Because, thanks to the internet, her village is now a "GLOBAL VILLAGE" by Marshall McLugansk (c) So, after you are gone, the next day, she'll meet some spaniard, then the day after some german, then some pole, then some uruguayan... Thanks to the internet (Every village idiot has internet now) she can be reached by milions of men from all around the globe, who are spoiling her with gifts, dinners, trips ect. Please don't thionk that if she's from a smaller town, then she's necesarily "uncorrupted" by the "big city". It's not really so. depends on the person of course.

Yes, there are VERY GOOD WOMEN IN THE FSU, but do you understand the risks after this story? You, Simo, were lucky to meet the girl in England. Some don't have such opportunity.

That's why, instead of saying "guys I'm happily married to an ukrianian wife, so I recommend you to go to some small ukrainian town and meet one for you", I'd say "guys, hold on! dont rush! think about everything, get yourself informed, there are lot of dishonest or unreliable women. Where are you going? whom are you meeting? Prepare "plan B" in case things get wrong and so on..."

 Please excuse me if I was too harsh. You seem to be a great guy, cheers!

[chelseaboy]

Rasputin,

               Could you speak fluent Russian when you were having such great success with the women of the FSU ?

If so,maybe that would account for the fact that you had no problems with your appeal to them,and all of them were so sincere with you ?

I'm sure you're aware that most men in this endevour do NOT speak Russian.

Or maybe you are very wealthy and look like Brad Pitt ?

I ask this because your ease in finding many decent women in their twenties to date in the FSU goes against what the vast majority of men,regardless of their age, are experiencing.

[curiogeo7]

 In 3 + years I have found all that upslon, 'south say to be true. IMHO
 Have a Russian GF, here local, and she would point out her daughter as a prime example of type A. ( so would I, but just do not say it;)).
 Notice they state clearly, general cultural characteristics of FSU women, heck some things in common with women all over the planet.
 I am no expert by any means, but to wit. Russians in general are:
 Very direct, do not apologize, very concerned with image, do not back down even when totally wrong.
 These are cultural characteristics. Generalisations for sure. But these characterisations can be found through out the threads here on RUA.

[Bruce Lee]

Is it me or do the last few replies on this thread represent the most baloney I've ever read on this forum? FWIW I'm not insulted because my wife is Russian I'm actually insulted because what is being said is complete overally generalistic stereotyped rubbish from a bunch of guys who have/are clearly making bad choices!!!

Seriously if you can't do it fellas don't go around blaming everything and everybody else, you know what they say about a bad workman - yep, he's always blaming the tools he's got for the job! Of course its everybody else's fault but your own, FYI I've heard that mirrors can be purchased quite cheaply nowadays, failing that a darkened window can provide the same affect, try looking in it - the person with the answers to your problems will be the one looking back at you!

Feel free with the insults guys, as with all fairness I've heard them all before

[curiogeo7]

Is it me or do the last few replies on this thread represent the most baloney I've ever read on this forum? FWIW I'm not insulted because my wife is Russian I'm actually insulted because what is being said is complete overally generalistic stereotyped rubbish from a bunch of guys who have/are clearly making bad choices!!!

Seriously if you can't do it fellas don't go around blaming everything and everybody else, you know what they say about a bad workman - yep, he's always blaming the tools he's got for the job! Of course its everybody else's fault but your own, FYI I've heard that mirrors can be purchased quite cheaply nowadays, failing that a darkened window can provide the same affect, try looking in it - the person with the answers to your problems will be the one looking back at you!

Feel free with the insults guys, I'm not the one with the inadequacies and with fairness I've heard them all before

Funny guy BL, that is about all you should take so personal, remember we all have differant experience's, out looks and life styles.
 Yours is only one of millions. But thanks for your opinion also.

[Bruce Lee]

Funny guy BL,

I know

But thanks for your opinion also.

You're welcome

[Dogsoldier]

More than the wallet they are all superficial. They care only on outside aspects, the surface but are not interested in the inside, the content, the inner world. Who you are is not interesting for them, how you look like is their only matter and if possible with You can be a man with golden heart, with values, many qualities, depth of soul and mind, respectful, caring, with serious intentions, they are not curious nor interested in the person in themselves. They prefer empty men with poor content but attractive and if possible who can blindly say and do what they want, like a pet. It seems more complicated for them to fall in love than western women, eastern women like themselves before all, on dating sites they want to be complimented and do not have real process of seeking great love and don't intend to know the interlocutor deeply.  They behave as if they should be deserved. they want to "receive" but never give nor show.

If this post is the sum of your lifes experience with the opposite sex I truly pity you.

[Rasputin]

Longing, I am fluent in Russian. Again, continue on with your generalizations... You made bad choices and are bitter. I get it!

A cheap way to undermine someone's opinion: "you're bitter", "sour grapes". The next will probably be: "look yourself in a mirror", "get laid" ect. So predictable.

Nope, sex won't help you. Finding a good woman is not hard. Look for the women who worked hard to finish their studies. Looked at the women who strived in their jobs. Look at the women who have goals and ambitions and thinks more than what shade of lipstick they will wear tomorrow. The problem is that you certainly pursued a certain type of woman and now that you have not succeeded with those women you want to blame all Russian women or at least many/most/whatever for your failings.

I concentrated on the dark side, cause this thread is started by an ukrainian who wanted to share his or her knowledge on the bad sides of the fsu dating. I'd gladly share my positive experiences, but not here

You want to avoid the dark side? Easy. Simply don't sign up for the A-Webs or other such agencies. Then remember that if it seems to be too good to be true, it almost certainly is...

[upsylon]

If you want to avoid the dark side, avoid russian and ukrainian girls. as simple as that.

[Rasputin]

Could you speak fluent Russian when you were having such great success with the women of the FSU ?

Yes, I did, and yes it helped. More important, was knowing what kind of woman would make a good wife and pursuing those types of women.

I'm sure you're aware that most men in this endevour do NOT speak Russian.

Yes, but it is not the lack of Russian that is the impediment, it is unrealistic expectations.

Or maybe you are very wealthy and look like Brad Pitt ?

Nope and well maybe on a good day with the right camera angle 

I ask this because your ease in finding many decent women in their twenties to date in the FSU goes against what the vast majority of men,regardless of their age, are experiencing.

Yes, if the vast majority of the men are trying to date the stunning photoshopped to perfection images of women in the pay-per-letter agencies then yes they certainly won't have much success dating women in their early twenties. Likewise, if they choose women solely for their looks and are willing to pay whatever it takes to date them, then yes the majority will meet women who are only interested in them for their money....

[Rasputin]

If you want to avoid the dark side, avoid russian and ukrainian girls. as simple as that.

Then, do that. Nobody is forcing you to date internationally. Go apply your dating strategies to the local women, and then report back on your success 

[simo82]

@ longingforthesouth.
Does being 29 class as being middle aged these days??? hell that means im 5 years away from mid life crisis!
Sorry i will have to agree to disagree, However i do agree on some of your points, but i think people looking to marry/ date etc, should be looking away from the major cities as in my humble opinion, they attract the type of men and women that lose their core values.........of course there are always exceptions to these rules, so i dont generalise.
Personally my wife is from the west of Ukraine, and although she has been to England (This is how i met her and eventually plucked up the courage to talk to her) this still doesn't detract her from her core values.
I think those that are on these dating sites are caught in an industry where to make a little bit of money they do pro date, scam or whatever, but noit every single person on Dating sites are out to sting you for all your hard earned money.....
Good luck to everyone who is still looking, hang in there, never send money, and go meet these girls!!!! totally worth it!
Simo

Hi Simo!

In the very beginning of my post, I said "maybe my assumptions are completely wrong" (I'm not saying that I'm always right, tho I ussualy am) and "most of the westerners here are middle aged..." (not all of them, but I assume most of them are)

I'm very very glad for your success, but one swallow does not a summer make

Now I will be a little bit ironic. You say "go and meet those girls, it's worth it" and you even suggest searching in smaller places, outside of the major cities, though you were lucky enough to meet your girl in England I assume she was a student of english, so even the language was not a problem.

As far as I can see, you didn't have to travel to an uknown country for the first date somewhere in a god-forgotten town such as Stakhanov, Novoshakhtinsk or whatever, where absolutely no one speak english, risking various troubles?

I have dated in both major cities and in some small towns which most people can't find on a map. I even communicate with girls from restricted cities in Russia, tho it's immposible to get there.

In a small industrial or mining town, you can get a really hot girl... extremely! the women there are fantastic.

However, what if the girl does not show up? Or what if there's no mutual sympathy?

If she's a bitch (and many, esspecially the most attractive ones, unfortunatelly, ARE such), she will tell you goodbye and leave you without even saying "thank you for the dinner", let alone saying "thanks Simo for flying to me 1000s of miles all the way from London to my native Muhosransk".

You my friend, will be stucked in an completely unattractive grey industrial city of like 30.000 people, with nothing to do, no sightseeing, no nightlife, nothing. Chernobyl.

And you know why she can get away with such behaviour? Because, thanks to the internet, her village is now a "GLOBAL VILLAGE" by Marshall McLugansk (c) So, after you are gone, the next day, she'll meet some spaniard, then the day after some german, then some pole, then some uruguayan... Thanks to the internet (Every village idiot has internet now) she can be reached by milions of men from all around the globe, who are spoiling her with gifts, dinners, trips ect. Please don't thionk that if she's from a smaller town, then she's necesarily "uncorrupted" by the "big city". It's not really so. depends on the person of course.

Yes, there are VERY GOOD WOMEN IN THE FSU, but do you understand the risks after this story? You, Simo, were lucky to meet the girl in England. Some don't have such opportunity.

That's why, instead of saying "guys I'm happily married to an ukrianian wife, so I recommend you to go to some small ukrainian town and meet one for you", I'd say "guys, hold on! dont rush! think about everything, get yourself informed, there are lot of dishonest or unreliable women. Where are you going? whom are you meeting? Prepare "plan B" in case things get wrong and so on..."

 Please excuse me if I was too harsh. You seem to be a great guy, cheers!

No she wasnt studying English, and Her English speaking was next to non Existant.....(Hopefully you understand the circumstances she was here in U.K.)
The first time i travelled alone to Ukraine, and was met at the Railstation in Kiev, i spoke no Ukrainian / Russian, i used a guide book and phrase book. and my Ukrainian sucks lol

Of course if a person is stupid enough to chat with a girl online and meet her in Ukraine or where ever in a few dates or letters, then you do need shooting, i never said go meet them right away, that goes without saying that you must check double check and triple check, ergo near illiminating the possibility of being scammed etc etc...yes i totally agree have aback up plan.....
also men need to date within their league or slightly higher, nothing wrong with that....but you must ask yourself would a girl of this calibre be interested in you in your own country.....highly unlkikely and if she was i bet it would be for your wallet....
I stick by what i say, as for the lady being less than desirable, that is what skype is for, chat talk and you will soon get an understanding.
If i can survive in a small Ukrainian Village with next to no practical Russian / Ukrainian then im sure others will be fine.

[Anteros]

Let's see, when I met my wife she was 26, never married, no children. I was 36 then and had no problem finding decent women to date. Continue on with your generalizations longing, but I will simply say that it comes across as sour grapes to me...

How many years ago were you 36 Rasputin?  If it has been 10 years or so which I suspect it has you should be very aware that the world has changed very very much since then.  If you like to be Pollyanish that is your choice however those of us on our quest currently know that lookingforsouth has spoken 99.9% the truth.

[Chris]

Yes, but it is not the lack of Russian that is the impediment, it is unrealistic expectations.

and its that statement alone which is why so many continue to fail over and over again and run across so many so called scammers 

[BlueSky]

Has there been changes in the game in the past 10 years?
Yes, of course there have. Standard of living has improved. Western Culture is more prominent. Access to inet.

But do those changes mean it is harder to find someone in the FSU, or should I say Ukraine/Russia?
No.

The Struggling Men searching.
I have met and witnessed many WM in Ukraine who are very deluded in their quest. They have this strange belief that just because they come from the UK, US or wherever, they are automatically a good catch for the local woman. Or they think by throwing the cash around like confetti, they will attract, what they think, they want. Instead all they get are the ones being talked about on here, the Good Time Girl/Gold Digger and Time Waster. These same men will also drone on about how all women in there own country are fat, soulless blah blah blah. More often than not, they have self esteem issues (probably other issues too), will sometimes have a Victim Mentality or they can be incredibly arrogant and controlling. Often won't except any responsibility for their own failings. Then they moan at how difficult it is to find a good woman.

Those Money Grabbing, GTG Women
I know some of these type of women. Often have a sense of entitlement, everything evolves around them and often will take zero responsibilty for themselves. Often think that all men love them and want their bodies. Complain they can't find a good man. In effect, they are just the Female version of the struggling Man. Oh and you can find these women in any country, anywhere in the world.

Is it no small wonder that these Men and Women have a habit of finding each other.

This leaves the normal stable men and woman to find each other. The type of people who can work out if your any of the above, way before any meeting, usually through a bizzare concept known as communicating.

It does surprise me though that any FSUW would want to go through this search after witnessing some of the c p they have to go through from men or should I say boys.