K-1 went to cr@p and he wants to send her packing is there any way she can stay?

[cufflinks]

Go back and read the OP.

This lady does not want to make life a living hell for this guy.
what do you think DV charges against him will bring?
Bill asked for advice how to help her other than to go this route of Domestic,Abuse,
can anyone come up with something  more than what  Bill already knew on his own before he placed his questions?

As Shakes says she as limited options - she can stay and the methods have been clearly outlined - or -she can go back to where she came from with little or nothing to start over with.

Life is hard some times but she does have a real choice - "be an obedient good girl and GO HOME" or enforce her rights under US law and have a real chance at a fresh start.   

Not wanting to cause her K-1 sponsor fiance any grief is an option and she will then suffer the consequences.  Just letting Bill know she has options - what about the grief being caused to this lady who was brought over here not truly knowing the situation she was walking into.

Normally being a former military hard ass I would say screw it another GCG manipulating the system just send her packing.  According to T2B she is behaving honorably so why not show her a little compassion - she does have an option as discussed previously if she truly wants to stay - perhaps she just wants a sympathetic shoulder to cry on and going back to the FSU to familiar surroundings is not an altogether unappealing option to her. 

Important that she know her rights and options if not a GCG.  I am inclined to think she is not a GCG as the more hard hearted FSUWs I have met here when asked should I bring an FSUW here? Answered quite directly in a cold and matter of fact matter "Why not you will get at least 2 good years out of her" - being the period of indentured servitude the hard hearted ones consider their price to pay for a GC and new life in the land of milk and honey.  In the end it is her choice really which path and options she takes.

[shakespear]

This may or may not help her to adjust her immigration status but not even trying will be even less effective. At worst, it would be a good delaying tactic and she could use the time to make contacts in America. Time is of the essence, though, because out-of-status time in the U.S. works against her. She ought to work with women's groups to report the situation and to do it ASAP.

This may be true if criminal charges are pending and a Prosecuting Attorney needs her presence to testify in a court of law.  But that is not the case. 

[shakespear]

Battered Immigrant Women Project:
Tahirih provides pro bono legal representation to immigrant female survivors of domestic violence seeking to access their right to legal status independent of their abuser under the Violence Against Women Act, so that they are not forced to choose between deportation and remaining in the abusive relationship upon which their legal status depends. 

Tahirih's own web page makes my point.  The K-1 visa is not an immigrant visa.  She is not FORCED to choose between remaining in an abusive relationship and being deported.  The fact that she will not marry within the 90-day period is the reason she can be deported if she overstays her visa.   Basically they're just dating and if his conduct rises to the standard of criminal behavior, he certainly can be prosecuted.  However the lady in question just cannot use this as a legal cause to allow her permanent residence in the USA .

Can you imagine the potential for abuse if this were the case?  Every Ukrainian visa whore in the country would agree to a K-1 visa from the first guy who asked and then within 3 weeks of arrival in the USA, with no intention of marriage, request permanent residence on the basis that her sponsor supposedly lied to her and yelled at her?

Sorry guys, it just doesn't work that way. . . . .  She has a third choice to avoid the abuse, end the relationship and return home.  There is really no point in even fantasizing about any other option. 

[Brasscasing]

Brass, I don't agree.

For example, Tahirih Justice Centre is a guiding force behind much of the federal and state legislation that exists, or is coming down the pike, to limit the freedoms of people seeking a marriage to a foreign person. However, they also do a good and well intentioned job of protecting people from gender based abuse.

I am firmly of the belief that mental abuse is a real issue and my opinion is that in many cases its effects are worse than those from the occasional (or regular) beating, not least because the marks are much harder to see.

The legislation in place to protect abusees is there for all to use. You and I might not be in full agreement with all of the points of that legislation but at the same time I strongly believe that we should use those tools that are made available to us.

The reason why I highlighted Tahirih is that this is what they do. There may be other advocacy groups covering the same ground but I know of none more well known or active. For sure they will be much more likely to have something to offer than dealing with a salesperson trained as a lawyer whose job it is to sift out profitable cases from all those that land on his (or her) desk.

I do not think it is for you, me or anyone else on this forum to say what will happen but for certain, not taking action will have only a single outcome.

And I don't disagree Andrew. Either way, I hope Bill keeps us updated on her progress and journey.

Brass

[andrewfi]

Brad, I tend to agree with you on that, however, I am certain that her only real recourse is through an advocacy group such as this one because they have a different perspective, they also have access to 'levers' that most people do not.

Yes, it may be that they tell her there is no option but to stay with the guy or to leave, but if those people told me that was the case I'd understand that there was no other option. Sometimes it is important to hear a 'no' on good authority. What does it cost her to do this? A phone call and some note taking.

[Crusader]

Guys, this lady is very clever, very personable and if her situation wasn't so emotionally
difficult I would invite her here to say hello.

I told her that I would start a thread and she will sort through the information
and use what she thinks will work best for her.

If you have any other ideas or suggestions please feel free to tell her about them
here.

Thank you,

Bill

Yes, she sounds very clever. She's got you fooled don't she? 

[TomT]

Guys, this lady is very clever, very personable and if her situation wasn't so emotionally
difficult I would invite her here to say hello.

I told her that I would start a thread and she will sort through the information
and use what she thinks will work best for her.

If you have any other ideas or suggestions please feel free to tell her about them
here.

Thank you,

Bill

Yes, she sounds very clever. She's got you fooled don't she? 

There is no call for that because insufficient evidence has been presented to support such a conclusion.

[Crusader]

Guys, this lady is very clever, very personable and if her situation wasn't so emotionally
difficult I would invite her here to say hello.

I told her that I would start a thread and she will sort through the information
and use what she thinks will work best for her.

If you have any other ideas or suggestions please feel free to tell her about them
here.

Thank you,

Bill

Yes, she sounds very clever. She's got you fooled don't she? 

There is no call for that because insufficient evidence has been presented to support such a conclusion.

There is very much a call to get both sides of the story. This man is not here so I will plead his case. And maybe Shaky will chime in his past story. Some here seem ready to swallow her story hook line and sinker. He said that she said...."bla bla bla" Some here even seem to be sugesting filing false abuse charges.
FSU women "hate lie", unless they are the one telling the lie!
Yes, insufficient evidence all around!!!

[TomT]

This man is not here so I will plead his case.

Unfortunately, your defense is built around your prejudicial presumption that the beneficiary is a green card girl and that Bill is a naive fool.

[Crusader]

This man is not here so I will plead his case.

Unfortunately, your defense is built around your prejudicial presumption that the beneficiary is a green card girl and that Bill is a naive fool.

Not unfortunate in the least. This not the liberal court system.
There are just as many smart guys here as there are liberals.
Bill is really not the fool here. She is his "friend" so he thinks. So it is somewhat normal to believe what she says. Bill is not the problem. But some others seem to be ready to hang this man over nothing when they don't know the man or woman at all.
Filing false abuse charges is very serious. It's a crime!
The K1 has rules. Marry or go home. Yes, it's that simple.
He should cut his losses and start over.
She should cut her losses and start over. Yes, back where her family is. If she is a good woman, I wish her better luck next time. Him as well.

[shakespear]

There is very much a call to get both sides of the story. This man is not here so I will plead his case. And maybe Shaky will chime in his past story. Some here seem ready to swallow her story hook line and sinker. He said that she said...."bla bla bla" Some here even seem to be suggesting filing false abuse charges.  FSU women "hate lie", unless they are the one telling the lie!
Yes, insufficient evidence all around!!! 

Crusader, many times your hard line attitude is warranted but I don't think this is the case in this instance.  I think this girl is telling the truth and is just curious about any option she has to stay in her new country legally.  Unlike others, I feel holding out some false hope that his can happen is doing her a disservice.  She deserves factual answers, not fantasy.

I believe Bill is shooting straight about this girl.  My points have been expressed in a logical and unemotional manner.  The law is the law and in the case of a K-1, the sponsored immigrant who wants to follow the law, just doesn't have any rights or options other than to return to her home country unless she marries her sponsor within the 90-day time limit. 

In hindsight, she has obviously misplaced her trust in a man who is not what he appeared to be during courtship.  This case highlights the sacrifice many of these women make and the personal uncertainty they accept when agreeing to a proposal of marriage from a western man and consenting to move to a new country to find love and happiness. 

My suggestion to the lady is to make plans to return home prior to the expiration of the 90-day time limit.  This will document your willingness to comply with US immigration law and keep all your options open for the future.  I would also advise she use the balance of her 90-days wisely by making contacts in the business and social world.  Who knows?  She might even meet her next visa sponsor between now and the time she is required by law to leave the USA.

Too many people from the FSU who find themselves in a similar situation adapt a short term view of I'm already here, let's just ignore the law and stay and hope for the best.  IMHO, this would be the worst strategy possible.     

[cufflinks]

Knowing Bill now for years I will always give him the benefit of the doubt.  A review of facts: NO ONE has suggested filing FALSE or FRAUDULENT abuse claims and that idea is a jumping to conclusions - however EMOTIONAL abuse is a long accepted form of DV and the most important thing as Andrew suggested is for her to get competent and experienced legal immigration counsel with those intimately familiar with the Violence Against Women's Act - if she wants to truly stay this is likely her best option save for Shakes sage advise to network for new business and social contacts to find her next visa sponsor...  A "battered women's" type group also has a network of extensive resources they can bring to bear in her physical, legal, emotional, health/medical and monetary support. 

[TomT]

Andrew's advice is, by far, the best in the thread:

"She might want to contact these folks: http://www.tahirih.org/services/  "

[Steamer]

Several revelations came to light and everything has gone to crap. He has told
some obvious lies, and told her that she is not allowed to travel except to go
back forever. It seems he has several issues with control, anger etc.
HE HAS NOT HIT HER and she wouldn't lie and say that he did. She doesn't
want to cause him any additional grief or problems but would prefer to stay
here in the US.

Can you be more specific about the issues involved? What are the lies and what is the nature of the control and anger issues? The scale on this could be anywhere from normal adjustment disputes to constant berating.

[2tallbill]

The K1 has rules. Marry or go home. Yes, it's that simple.

Some of us, me for example don't know every visa rule, law, exception etc.
I posted this thread to help my friend find out if there were any other options
for her. I think you are reading malice in between the lines where none exists.

As for she has me fooled, obviously you don't know enough to make that statement.
You are just flapping your self important cyber gums.

Lastly all the words posted here were mine. I summarized the events as I understood
them. The "Blah, blah, blah" reference is my words not hers. I used it for the purpose 
of being brief, and not giving unnecessary personal information that might somehow
identify the couple in some way.

Udachi

Bill

[andrewfi]

To those who are saying, in different words, that this woman should just pack her bags and go home and suggesting that there is nobody who can help her I'd say this:

If one of you guys approached me, told me that you had committed some heinous crime and needed my help I'd do this: I'd point you at the best lawyer/advocate/whatever that I knew about. I'd do that whether I thought you were guilty or not.
I'd do it because, as far as I am concerned, the law and its provisions are placed there for the benefit of all, regardless of what you may or may not have done.

Now, I do not know this woman, I have no opinion upon whether she should stay in the US or not BUT she deserves the best assistance that the Home of the Brave can afford those harbored within its borders.
To the best of my knowledge Tahirih is the best that the Land of The Free can offer - heck, they even helped  frame some of the laws we are discussing and about which I was commenting in a less favorable light in the Death of a Russian Bride docs many moons ago.

In truth, none of us here are qualified to pass a judgement upon this woman and her situation, all we can do as fellow humans is to do the best we can do to point her in the right direction, a direction that enables her to attain her chosen goals - not more and not less.

[2tallbill]

Can you be more specific about the issues involved? What are the lies and what is the nature of the control and anger issues? The scale on this could be anywhere from normal adjustment disputes to constant berating.

No, she can tell you more if she wants to (she knows about this thread).
I don't want to tell any tales out of school.

I appreciate the responses, even the bickering since it helps bring all points out
on the table.

[Boris]

Shakes right on in his comments. She really has no legal standing to stay. Also, we don't really know both sides of the story. It would be interesting to hear how it all plays out. 

[Anteros]

Anyone who is physically present in the U.S., legally or not, is afforded many protections under the law. (This issue went to the Supreme Court some years back.) If a crime or crimes have been committed, telling the victim to suck it up and to go home is wildly out of synch with the applicable ruling.

This may or may not help her to adjust her immigration status but not even trying will be even less effective. At worst, it would be a good delaying tactic and she could use the time to make contacts in America. Time is of the essence, though, because out-of-status time in the U.S. works against her. She ought to work with women's groups to report the situation and to do it ASAP.

In what state does the girl currently reside?

You're making a gigantic assumption that this woman deserves to stay in our country and has the right to drain our resources dry while trying to do so.  For all we know she is a very good liar who has been preying on the gullibility of men who empathize with women who make allegations that they have somehow been mistreated.

[Anteros]

Knowing Bill now for years I will always give him the benefit of the doubt.  A review of facts: NO ONE has suggested filing FALSE or FRAUDULENT abuse claims and that idea is a jumping to conclusions - however EMOTIONAL abuse is a long accepted form of DV and the most important thing as Andrew suggested is for her to get competent and experienced legal immigration counsel with those intimately familiar with the Violence Against Women's Act - if she wants to truly stay this is likely her best option save for Shakes sage advise to network for new business and social contacts to find her next visa sponsor...  A "battered women's" type group also has a network of extensive resources they can bring to bear in her physical, legal, emotional, health/medical and monetary support.

If emotional abuse is a crime of DV then why aren't hundreds of thousands if not millions of American women in jail or prison for committing this awful act??  I cannot tell you how many times I have witnessed a shrill abusive woman brow beat and emotionally abuse her husband in public because he just does not measure up for her in the financial department or some other "issue" with these type of women.  I have also witnessed countless "mothers" be very verbally abusive with their little boys, while little susan who was all sugar and spice and everything nice could do no wrong.  One little boy was trying to get away from his monster of a mother who was abusing him at a department store on a busy weekend.  It was so bad that I seriously considered calling the police but because she did not actually physically beat the poor boy I knew they would not do anything.  She just made the poor little boy cry and it was obvious that he wanted to be with a different "parent" than her.

[cufflinks]

Knowing Bill now for years I will always give him the benefit of the doubt.  A review of facts: NO ONE has suggested filing FALSE or FRAUDULENT abuse claims and that idea is a jumping to conclusions - however EMOTIONAL abuse is a long accepted form of DV and the most important thing as Andrew suggested is for her to get competent and experienced legal immigration counsel with those intimately familiar with the Violence Against Women's Act - if she wants to truly stay this is likely her best option save for Shakes sage advise to network for new business and social contacts to find her next visa sponsor...  A "battered women's" type group also has a network of extensive resources they can bring to bear in her physical, legal, emotional, health/medical and monetary support.

If emotional abuse is a crime of DV then why aren't hundreds of thousands if not millions of American women in jail or prison for committing this awful act??  I cannot tell you how many times I have witnessed a shrill abusive woman brow beat and emotionally abuse her husband in public because he just does not measure up for her in the financial department or some other "issue" with these type of women.  I have also witnessed countless "mothers" be very verbally abusive with their little boys, while little susan who was all sugar and spice and everything nice could do no wrong.  One little boy was trying to get away from his monster of a mother who was abusing him at a department store on a busy weekend.  It was so bad that I seriously considered calling the police but because she did not actually physically beat the poor boy I knew they would not do anything.  She just made the poor little boy cry and it was obvious that he wanted to be with a different "parent" than her.

Use your smartphone video camera and record the episode and then post it anonymously with a dire headline on YouTube and where the incident occurs and see how long before child protective services visits the TCCFM mother.  Abusive crap our parents generation got away with is not tolerated today.  Conversely if you behave like a jerk in public it will likely wind up on youtube.

[Anteros]

Knowing Bill now for years I will always give him the benefit of the doubt.  A review of facts: NO ONE has suggested filing FALSE or FRAUDULENT abuse claims and that idea is a jumping to conclusions - however EMOTIONAL abuse is a long accepted form of DV and the most important thing as Andrew suggested is for her to get competent and experienced legal immigration counsel with those intimately familiar with the Violence Against Women's Act - if she wants to truly stay this is likely her best option save for Shakes sage advise to network for new business and social contacts to find her next visa sponsor...  A "battered women's" type group also has a network of extensive resources they can bring to bear in her physical, legal, emotional, health/medical and monetary support.

If emotional abuse is a crime of DV then why aren't hundreds of thousands if not millions of American women in jail or prison for committing this awful act??  I cannot tell you how many times I have witnessed a shrill abusive woman brow beat and emotionally abuse her husband in public because he just does not measure up for her in the financial department or some other "issue" with these type of women.  I have also witnessed countless "mothers" be very verbally abusive with their little boys, while little susan who was all sugar and spice and everything nice could do no wrong.  One little boy was trying to get away from his monster of a mother who was abusing him at a department store on a busy weekend.  It was so bad that I seriously considered calling the police but because she did not actually physically beat the poor boy I knew they would not do anything.  She just made the poor little boy cry and it was obvious that he wanted to be with a different "parent" than her.

Use your smartphone video camera and record the episode and then post it anonymously with a dire headline on YouTube and where the incident occurs and see how long before child protective services visits the TCCFM mother.  Abusive crap our parents generation got away with is not tolerated today.  Conversely if you behave like a jerk in public it will likely wind up on youtube.

Good strategy and I agree with you 100%.  At the time I did not even own a cell phone much less a smart phone but I have since entered into the tech age!!

[2tallbill]

She didn't want me to elaborate which is why I didn't.
She is back in the FSU and appears that she will be able
to get her job back.

Thank you for all the responses.

Bill