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Author Topic: My First Trip to Kiev - Professional Dater Or Not That Is The Question  (Read 6542 times)

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Offline Donhollio

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 VSSKI, I have a very difficult time understanding why some guys allow themselves to be fleeced when they would never allow that to happen if they dated locally.  For those who post about avoiding Odessa, upon further reading you will find that some of them have yet to ever go to that city. Another point is that all these scams seem to be agency girls/prodaters from AWEB or HRB.  Any internet search will uncover the issues with these companies.
 I can only think the reason why as Manny suggests is that its the Kiev/Odessa girls that are all dishonest, is because most men don't travel to Russia. I'm fairly comfortable saying that AWEB/HRB girls do scam men in Russia much the same way VSSKI got fleeced. Maybe the mindset of the Russian traveller is the type who doesn't type and tell, I really don't know. But they scam, don't think the country changes the situation.

Offline TomT

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Maybe the mindset of the Russian traveller is the type who doesn't type and tell, I really don't know.

That's a pretty weak theory, Don.
"Get away from the keyboard little man. I know where you live." (Message left in my facebook mailbox by our resident psychopath.)

Offline Donhollio

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Maybe the mindset of the Russian traveller is the type who doesn't type and tell, I really don't know.

That's a pretty weak theory, Don.

 :innocent:   I'd like to think a poor effort distracted by the nightly news on TV.  Anyway guys who go to Russia get scammed too. That can't be denied.


Offline TomT

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Occam's Razor applies, Don. If there are more reports of professional dating in Ukraine than in Russia, the simplest explanation is that there are more cases of it. If we were to hypothesize about explanations, the most obvious is that a greater percentage of the female population considers it to be acceptable behavior. This should not be taken to mean that there aren't plenty of honest, ethical girls in Ukraine; I know quite a few personally. Unfortunately, I know more scammers. 
"Get away from the keyboard little man. I know where you live." (Message left in my facebook mailbox by our resident psychopath.)

Online andrewfi

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Andrew, hold your horses.  Here is the intro to my post above:

Quote
  When I read your story I immediately thought of a parody post I wrote about a pro dater from Odessa:

It was only a parody.  Never happened in reality.

HAHAHAHA! Shoot me!  :-[
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Offline Donhollio

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This should not be taken to mean that there aren't plenty of honest, ethical girls in Ukraine; I know quite a few personally. Unfortunately, I know more scammers.

 I guess that's where our search was quite different. While I did come across some scammers in Ukraine, the honest ones I met far outweighed the kind that you and others came to know.

Offline TomT

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I guess that's where our search was quite different.

That's what happens when men chase the crème de la crème. (The percentage of scammers increases exponentially.)
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Offline kievstar

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TomT you have proof the best women are scammers or just a random statement?

Offline VSSKI

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TomT-
I think you hit it on the nail, for the scam to have worked the interpreter needed to be in on it because whenever I showed doubts it was her who was the "helping" hand.
This is actually what makes it even more disheartening. In my job I deal with people's careers and lifes all the time and a recommendation from me can mean someone is out on the street, so I am accustomed to people not being all that honest with me and playing games, but at the same time and because of my job I try to be very honest and treat anyone as fairly as I possible can, so seeing this level of sophistication and dishonesty is very unusual for me and made me too naive here.
But again I think you are correct, this dating industry has become a huge and very profitable business and whenever fast money is to be had it attracts all kinds of undesirable elements especially when vast income disparities are at play.

The point I don't fully agree with you is not to date a woman if she insists on an agency interpreter. If I put myself in the woman's shoes someone who she never met comes to see her and he insists on meeting her at some cafe or street corner and brings an interpreter along the girl knows even less about. If I were a woman, I would feel very uncomfortable with this scenario and so I can't blame them for trying to have at least one familiar face with them that they know from the agency. However, if the interpreter is not good (for whatever reason) I do agree that after a first meeting that presumably has gone well, it is best to take a different person that one trusts.

But I also have to say that my second visit to Ukraine, which is still on-going, is very different and quite positive both from a perspective of the women I meet, even in Odessa, as well as the interpreters - actually 180 degrees different, so by now the positive experience outweighs the negative. But I do admit that I come to understand more and more why you and others on this board advise to be careful. I have dated women from all over the world and indeed this is different here.

Thanks for the feedback!

Offline VSSKI

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Let me address some other comments here:

No I didn't put up this post because I'm looking for sympathy votes, after all I'm calling myself stupid here, I put this up because I know I'm not the only one something like this happened to and because I don't have the experience you guys have - maybe you are all a lot smarter than I am, but I bet not many people want to post here and tell everyone how dumb they were, but I'm hoping it helps others to avoid the same mistakes.

Also, because of having lived in numerous countries around the world I do have experience dating women from vastly different cultures than my own, but have to admit that I didn't expect this - yes it would have been great had I known all of this beforehand, but I didn't, and frankly neither does the vast majority of men that do this

And when I read Andrew's comment of learning to play in my own sandbox at home before hitting the big league, I have to say two things, thank you but it's not been a problem playing at home in so far as getting dates is concerned, but finding someone I truly consider interesting (which is far beyond a pretty face) is difficult for me - at least were I live at the moment-, and two if playing the major leagues means to dodge bullets at every corner, suspect everyone I meet is out to get me and I only succeed by outfoxing the fox I'm not interested in playing - dating should be fun and not some strategy game

I realize that the crowd on this board has a lot of experience, but it is also my perception that you are a very analytical and methodic bunch, i.e. id a girl, exchange the minimum amount of letters, get her personal contact info, cut out the agency, assess she is no scammer and only then consider really dealing with her. Obviously some of you have been successful with this approach and I commend you for it, but at least for me, this sounds like I'm making a decision on a financial investment and not on someone I may want to spend the rest of my life with. And while I have no statistics, I bet that most men see a pretty face on one of these sites and then start chatting and eventually meeting and frankly there are a lot of happily married men out there that are not on this board and I'm sure they have not all taken the approach here outlined.

I for one can say that I'm back in Ukraine, have met three women, same agency, same approach and all three turned out to be serious about their search, very nice and decent, not a single expensive dinner or any other money requests, just all around nice meetings and all with agency interpreters - and tonight I'm going on my third date with one of them

But I am taking your feedback to heart and if I will come back here I will go about this very different and somewhat more methodical, as I can clearly see the benefits of it.

Thanks everyone for the great replies.

Offline TomT

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TomT you have proof the best women are scammers or just a random statement?

I didn't write that the best women were scammers.
"Get away from the keyboard little man. I know where you live." (Message left in my facebook mailbox by our resident psychopath.)

Offline TomT

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SKI,

Consider a woman who aspires to marry a foreign man. By far, the best opportunities for her are in an English-speaking country. Yet, instead of learning English, she totes her favorite interpreter around with her on dates.
"Get away from the keyboard little man. I know where you live." (Message left in my facebook mailbox by our resident psychopath.)

Offline el_guero

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Unless VSSKI is scamming us (I am always surprised how quickly we point to 'them' being scammers and we are just victims here), I would hazard a guess that this girl actually thought she had found the mother load, that truly rare "Prince Charming."

Can you imagine a young woman reading articles in Edinstvennaya about how many young women have found their rich Ukrainian man.  No doubt the articles point out that this is a risky endeavor, because there are very few super rich and the women are sometimes replaced by a younger model when she hits a certain age. 

And as she continues to read Edinstvennaya, she reads of those privileged few women who find a foreign prince charming.  A man who caters to her every whim ..... marries her and loves her forever.  He would even love if she was fat ..... and he would provide for his family.

And then this guy takes her on a world class shopping spree.

Why wouldn't she think he is the perfect Edinstvennaya man?

Why would she cry for an hour if she was a fake.

Oh it's possible she hoped to take the dupe for another ride, but I think it is much more likely she thought he was for real.  And he was rich, and he was a Prince Charming.

Offline Chris

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The point I don't fully agree with you is not to date a woman if she insists on an agency interpreter. I

So the best thing to do is concentrate on ladies who have at least some English skills, that way the terp question never crops up and you are not having to communicate through a third party.

I for one can say that I'm back in Ukraine, have met three women, same agency, same approach and all three turned out to be serious about their search, very nice and decent, not a single expensive dinner or any other money requests, just all around nice meetings and all with agency interpreters - and tonight I'm going on my third date with one of them

When you finally meet proper women with true intentions, the difference is obvious.


Online B.B.

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And when I read Andrew's comment...

As you are a new poster, I will point out that judicious use of the ignore function often enhances the newbie experience at RUA....that is all.

B/B
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