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Author Topic: Cost of Living in Moscow  (Read 85696 times)

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Offline mendeleyev

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Cost of Living in Moscow
« on: April 28, 2011, 05:14:57 PM »
From the Moscow Times:

The supply of apartments in Khrushchev-era buildings is dwindling, while demand remains high and prices rise.


Rental rates for economy-class apartments in Moscow surged 15 percent to 25 percent in the first quarter of 2011 as compared with the first three months of last year, fueled by dwindling supply and stable demand, a real estate agency said Monday.

Average rental rates for a one-room apartment stood at 35,000 to 40,000 rubles ($1,250 to $1,428) per month and at 70,000 to 75,000 rubles for a two-room apartment, Penny Lane Realty said.

Demand in the segment grew 7 percent from last year, with some tenants migrating to more expensive business-class apartments because of increasing incomes, said Penny Lane chief executive Georgy Dzagurov.

"The economic situation has improved in 2011. Consequently, some tenants who preferred economy-class lodgings during the crisis have now returned to the business-class segment," he said in e-mailed comments.

According to Penny Lane Realty, economy-class apartments are primarily located in pre-fab buildings or khrushchyovki — the ubiquitous five-story concrete housing blocks constructed during the premiership of Nikita Khrushchev.

Business-class apartments are located in brick buildings with more developed infrastructure or in Stalin-era buildings.

Though demand for economy-class rentals remains high because of the large number of potential tenants from the lower-income segment, the number of affordable apartments is declining, said Maria Zhukova, first deputy director at MIEL-Arenda.

The number of requests in the price range of up to $750 per month was 4.2 times more in late March than the number of apartments offered, she said in e-mailed comments.

She added that there was a similar trend in other price ranges as well, including the one with the highest demand — from $1,000 to $3,000 per apartment per month — which accounted for 52 percent of all requests.

The tenants, most of which are Russians and citizens of the former Soviet Union countries, prefer one- or two-room apartments located within walking distance of a metro station, Dzagurov said, adding that the desirability of the district usually depends on the proximity to the tenant's office.

Moscow's center, as well as the west and southwest parts of the city, is among the most sought-after areas for tenants, but the biggest number of economy-class apartments on offer are located in the south and southeast of Moscow, Zhukova said.

An average monthly rental rate for a one-room apartment in the southeast is now 26,100 rubles, while the rate in the center is 34,500 rubles.

Zhukova expects rental rates to grow 10 percent to 15 percent in May through October, compared with April, due to a seasonal increase of demand.

At the same time the total number of apartments available is likely to grow up to 20 percent compared with the first quarter, Dzagurov said, due to a seasonal increase of short-term rental offerings.


Offline mendeleyev

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Cost of Living in Moscow
« Reply #1 on: December 17, 2011, 09:26:01 PM »
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/zxb_5Mh2qTs" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/zxb_5Mh2qTs</a>


<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/Iylu7vzy9j0" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/Iylu7vzy9j0</a>

Offline mendeleyev

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Re: Life in Moscow
« Reply #2 on: December 17, 2011, 09:27:13 PM »
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/AFWF6KF8SaE" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/AFWF6KF8SaE</a>


<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/yzUy7LfS98s" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/yzUy7LfS98s</a>


Offline mendeleyev

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Re: Home Life in Moscow
« Reply #3 on: December 17, 2011, 09:31:37 PM »
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/IexmrwHXBaM" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/IexmrwHXBaM</a>


<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/A1hwcyAeJs4" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/A1hwcyAeJs4</a>

Offline mendeleyev

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Re: Home Life in Moscow
« Reply #4 on: December 17, 2011, 09:37:48 PM »
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/-3iOmjwR8vE" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/-3iOmjwR8vE</a>

Offline mendeleyev

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Re: Life in Moscow
« Reply #5 on: December 17, 2011, 09:50:24 PM »
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/OkSOA_GaxNc" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/OkSOA_GaxNc</a>


<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/Uyg5IXkE-9o" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/Uyg5IXkE-9o</a>



Offline el_guero

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Cost of living in Moscow
« Reply #6 on: December 04, 2013, 10:30:15 PM »
Pravda wrote an article on the cost of expats living in Moscow - and they point out that there is usually an expat extra cost to live there.

http://english.pravda.ru/society/stories/02-12-2013/126266-cost_of_living_in_russia-0/

I think their basic numbers are not off.  But, I hope their expensive numbers are way off, but knowing how easy it is for expats to pay huge prices, their $15,000 a month in expat communities might be right.

That is serious money, even for all you rich guys.

Wayne

Offline Net_Lenka

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Re: Cost of living in Russia
« Reply #7 on: December 05, 2013, 02:30:28 AM »
Since september 2013 tour buses are avalable in Moscow as well
cost 600 rub- bus only/ 900 rub - BUS + BOAT


http://www.citytour-stolitsa.ru

- А Вы кто такой будете?
-Тьфу на Вас
-А фамилия Ваша как?  -Тьфу на Вас еще раз .. а фамилия моя слишком известная, чтобы я её называл

Offline MrMann

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Re: Cost of living in Russia
« Reply #8 on: December 05, 2013, 04:55:10 AM »
I haven't seen those particular buses but I have seen the City Sightseeing ones (which we also have here in Edinburgh).

http://www.city-sightseeing.com/tours/russia/moscow.htm

In my experience the cost of living in Moscow is high if you want to buy and eat the same kind of things as at home, but can be lower if you opt to "eat local". Which is common sense really. For example here we take for granted year-round non-local vegetables (peppers for example) but they're difficult to find in Moscow in winter, and pricey when you do.

We find bars and restaurants are more or less comparable to Edinburgh price-wise (certainly the ones we visit at least), maybe slightly more expensive but not hugely so.

Travel is generally much cheaper.

Gas and electricity are significantly cheaper in Moscow than here.

edit: I've spent over 6 months in total living in Moscow during the last 6 years.

Offline Danchik

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Re: Cost of living in Russia
« Reply #9 on: December 05, 2013, 06:05:10 AM »
While some of the prices are close in that article, Mercer and companies like that are usually talking about what it might cost a senoir executive's company to pay for his time spent relative to his life in his native country. This means they (Mercer) are taking into account a guy who is making well into a six-figure income back home, not to mention paying for food and things at mostly higher end retail stores for the super rich. And as Ashby's posts suggests, it also will pertain to tourists to some degree as well.

Coffee $8.40usd, yes at Starbucks for a grande, but I had a nice cappuccino today for under 100 rubles ($3.00usd) in a nice cafe at Moscow City.

This is why I cringe when I see articles like this and refuse to debate with people (blowhards) who sit in other countries and talk about how much it costs to live in Moscow (or other facts about Moscow) or Russia, especially when they have never even been here, much less lived here.

Moscow is cheaper than many other cities around Europe (London, Paris, Stockholm, Oslo, Amsterdam, etc.) and major cities in America like New York, San Francisco, and Boston, and about on par with Los Angeles, for instance (I have lived in both LA and Moscow for 10 years or more and know this to be true). Try renting a place in Malibu in the summer and see how much that sets you back, if you can find a place to rent. I know of some places that go for $100,000 a month and the waiting list for these places is a mile long. Stay in Manhattan for a couple of nights and get back to me.

I like this site as far as making everyday comparisons with the cost of living: http://www.expatistan.com/cost-of-living

If the forum wants, and I can find the time, I'd be happy to explain why Moscow is not only one of the best places in the FSU (but not the only place of course) to set up shop and find a wife, but what exactly it will cost, how difficult it will be to find the right place to stay, and a number of other factors that one has to think about before deciding whether they want to relocate for a few months or not.

But, I will only do this if there is enough interest from the board.  Of course anyone can make a case for relocating to another city for whatever reasons they find applicable, but please don't try telling me how things are here in Moscow if you haven't lived here for at least 3 years and know at least 1000 people or more.

Oh, and don't compare Moscow to Bugtussle, Ukraine. Of course it's more expensive in Moscow, just like it's more expensive to live in New York as opposed to Des Moines, Iowa.
 

Tremendously more expensive than Ukraine!
The average salary in Kiev is about $600usd and about $250 nationwide in Ukraine, in Moscow it's about $1800, and just under $1000 nationwide. While it is less expensive to live in Ukraine, let's try to keep things in perspective.

How many times have you been to Russia, how long were you here, and when was the last time you were here? It's just 3 simple questions that require simple answers so that we can verify the credibility of your statements. Yes, I'll ask anyone making posts in this thread these questions, so no hissy fits please.
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Offline sashathecat

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Re: Re: Cost of living in Russia
« Reply #10 on: December 05, 2013, 06:33:40 AM »
I like this site as far as making everyday comparisons with the cost of living: http://www.expatistan.com/cost-of-living

Great site for comparisons. I used compared my location to Moscow and although you can nitpick a few of the prices it looks generally correct. Moscow looks to be a bit less expensive and if you throw in the fact that most corporations would cover housing does not look bad at all.

Offline RichyRich

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Re: Re: Cost of living in Russia
« Reply #11 on: December 05, 2013, 06:57:20 AM »
Moscow is cheaper than many other cities around Europe and major cities in America, and about on par with Los Angeles.

I like this site as far as making everyday comparisons with the cost of living: http://www.expatistan.com/cost-of-living
I'd tend to agree with that in regards to it being cheaper than London (in some respects, not all) and on par with LA (with LA it's on par for holiday prices [which is my experience] I'd say).

I'd say it's good but for a lot of the London prices, it's off and quite badly in cases.

Offline Danchik

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Re: Re: Cost of living in Russia
« Reply #12 on: December 05, 2013, 07:06:32 AM »
I thought about how there might be some discrepancies within the system, but generally speaking it's consistent. You know, like a bad bathroom scale, even though the numbers might be skewed it stills gives a relatively good comparison when weighing everything. :)

I also know whenever any of my friends or acquaintances return from a trip to London and I ask them how it was, the first thing they say is "expensive".  ;D
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Offline RichyRich

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Re: Re: Cost of living in Russia
« Reply #13 on: December 05, 2013, 07:22:33 AM »
I thought about how there might be some discrepancies within the system, but generally speaking it's consistent. You know, like a bad bathroom scale, even though the numbers might be skewed it stills gives a relatively good comparison when weighing everything. :)

I also know whenever any of my friends or acquaintances return from a trip to London and I ask them how it was, the first thing they say is "expensive".  ;D
It's expensive due to the dollar, in general it's rather cheap in London.

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Re: Cost of living in Russia
« Reply #14 on: December 05, 2013, 07:54:09 AM »
What Danchik forgets when he talks of his expertise and how one can live for so much less than some survey or other, or even what other posters suggest is this:

He has been living in Moscow, on and off, for quite a few years and his time there has been very tough. When he writes we should not dare to gainsay him until we have lived there for more than three years he has a point but then when he was there for his first three years or more he was living a life that few of us would want to countenance.
Given a free choice we would not have lived as he did. This is important because it takes time to learn to live in a new place. I rather doubt that it takes three years to learn to live in a place, but it may well take that long, or longer, if one has to learn to make a living there and in that regard Danchik is spot on - it took him many years to get to a place where he could afford to live as he reckons others might expect.

So, when we see prices that look high, well, those are probably the prices we will pay (they may even be on the low side until we have localised a little).
If I want to use Starbucks then I will end up paying their prices. Over time I might learn where I can get a decent cup of coffee for much less, but I will also have spent a load of money on crappy coffee in crappy places. In the short term, if not too constrained by money, I will probably continue to use Starbucks - unless I seek adventures in crappy coffee.

The thing is that costs are dependent upon the constraints that one faces. If one is going to a place and one has no choice but to be there in the long term and to make a living then one will accept a standard and style of life that a person who is making a choice to stay for just a while and who is externally funded would quite reasonably turn their noses up at.

When one moves to a new place they find that their outgoings almost always fall off over time as they learn and adjust and that is independent of the reason for the move or the constraints, that is normal learning.

So, is Moscow an expensive place to live? Well, unless the folks at Expatistan and similar sites are all lying their arses off, then yes it is. I'd not argue with the Tallinn prices, I queried the house cleaning prices but, no, they are about right assuming that one has yet to find the granny who will do a job for half the money, then a professional cleaner is going to run at about €12 per hour. So, I believe that I'd be spending about 43% more than I do here for the same stuff. But then London runs at about 150% more than Tallinn. That looks about right too. And my home town, only about 35% more costly than here.

But how much would Tallinn cost if I just arrived here with money in my pocket? LOTS more. Just as Moscow would.

...everything ends always well; if it’s still bad, then it’s not the end!

Offline sashathecat

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Re: Re: Cost of living in Russia
« Reply #15 on: December 05, 2013, 08:19:34 AM »
Yes, you bring up some good points Andrew. For a single man moving who does not speak the language I would think the costs would be exponentially higher. Someone who may decide to make the jump with their SO who knows all the ins and outs of the city would be able to avoid some of these "tourist taxes" and costs.

Online andrewfi

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Re: Re: Cost of living in Russia
« Reply #16 on: December 05, 2013, 09:39:11 AM »
Yes, you bring up some good points Andrew. For a single man moving who does not speak the language I would think the costs would be exponentially higher. Someone who may decide to make the jump with their SO who knows all the ins and outs of the city would be able to avoid some of these "tourist taxes" and costs.

Yes, I went through the process when I was in Finland as a student, well funded and supported and later in Estonia, unfunded and unsupported. The experiences had some similarities and some differences, pretty much as noted above. I was fortunate though, when I arrived in Estonia I had skills that enabled me to do that which I have recommended to others over the years since - use skills to make a living from 'the world' rather than having to try to earn a living as a local (or in most cases - worse than a local). In that regard Danchik gets respect for having gone from nothing to something but he forgets the process and years that went into getting to wherever he is now and that forgetfulness is often reflected in his advice and sharing.

One thing is absolutely true, life would have been much harder for me had I gone to Moscow rather than Tallinn. Moscow was, at the time, much tougher than Tallinn, a place that I used to refer to as FSU Lite.
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Offline Danchik

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Re: Re: Cost of living in Russia
« Reply #17 on: December 05, 2013, 11:23:29 AM »
Still smarting from the virtual bitch slapping I gave you about your Russian language skills, are we fifi?

The fact is you have absolutely no idea what my life here is like, none. Not from the beginning, not after 3 years, not now. Have you even been to Moscow? Ah, no. Matter of fact you haven't been to Russia in almost 10 years. But hey, keep googling, keep spinning, and keep telling us how you know our lives better than we do, I certainly believe you (:).

You're a "weenie" that's it. That's your game here. It's rather sad that at your age you still are trying to prove yourself to others, and that you behave in a such an adolescent way on an internet forum of all places. Pathetic. But, when one has such low self esteem as you, what do you expect. Certainly anyone whose comfortable in his/her own skin would never post the things you do. 

I'll deal with your silliness just this once as I basically ignore your nonsense, because I simply don't have time for your games and you're such a bore, but later when I have time, not now. That is if the mods will let me and not protect you. No, I'm not going to stoop to your weenie level, just facts. 

Gee, who'd of thought you'd respond any different though? Still need me to help with your rent? :ROFL:

Andrewfi, my hero. :chuckle:

Yes, you bring up some good points Andrew. For a single man moving who does not speak the language I would think the costs would be exponentially higher. Someone who may decide to make the jump with their SO who knows all the ins and outs of the city would be able to avoid some of these "tourist taxes" and costs.
Sasha, fi doesn't know what he's talking about. 

As I said, I'll explain later when I find the time. Cheers

P.S. I wonder if this post will look the same when I wake up tomorrow tiphat.
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Offline sashathecat

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Re: Re: Cost of living in Russia
« Reply #18 on: December 05, 2013, 11:58:34 AM »
Yes, you bring up some good points Andrew. For a single man moving who does not speak the language I would think the costs would be exponentially higher. Someone who may decide to make the jump with their SO who knows all the ins and outs of the city would be able to avoid some of these "tourist taxes" and costs.
Sasha, fi doesn't know what he's talking about. 

As I said, I'll explain later when I find the time. Cheers

I would agree he may not know much about your personal situation, but I have lived in many countries overseas (not the FSU) and I have an advantage just speaking the local language fluently or knowing not to go such and such restaurant because they charge gringo tax, or are 30% more than the hole in the wall that serves much better food at half the cost. From my experience it takes time to get to know a new location unless you have your network in place.

If I were to move to Odessa alone my expenses would be much more to start than moving over with my wife as an example. I do not know the language, I would need to use a rental agency (at inflated rates) geared towards Westerners, and I would most likely not know that x food chain charges more for produce than the open air market. Of course some people are able to adapt and go native quicker than others.

Is it a practice in the FSU to charge foreigners more for certain things? I did not notice this while in Ukraine, but was only there for brief periods. For example in Latin America they have the gringo tax at certain eateries where the prices are not advertised and locals pay one price while gringos pay 30% more.


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Re: Re: Cost of living in Russia
« Reply #19 on: December 05, 2013, 02:15:08 PM »
Danchik, of course I know the about your difficult early years and, while on a personal level I dislike you and recall that it was you who changed my hospitality policy in respect of Russian living guys on visa runs, I also give you credit for sticking it out over there.

I think that you need to remember where you were during those early days because when you choose to disremember this stuff you do anyone who heeds your words a significant disservice.

There is no slapping as you fondly imagine because I have never claimed anything other than I have written. It is a shortcoming that I am not as fluent as I'd like and that knowledge gap provides context for posts I have made.

Be honest with yourself because you have much to share but when you try to polish the turd that was your early life in Moscow you discredit yourself and mislead those who might want to, in some degree, follow a part of your path.
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Offline ashbyclarke

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Re: Re: Cost of living in Russia
« Reply #20 on: December 05, 2013, 04:07:15 PM »
Since september 2013 tour buses are avalable in Moscow as well
cost 600 rub- bus only/ 900 rub - BUS + BOAT


http://www.citytour-stolitsa.ru



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Offline ashbyclarke

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Re: Re: Cost of living in Russia
« Reply #21 on: December 05, 2013, 04:13:14 PM »
I thought about how there might be some discrepancies within the system, but generally speaking it's consistent. You know, like a bad bathroom scale, even though the numbers might be skewed it stills gives a relatively good comparison when weighing everything. :)

I also know whenever any of my friends or acquaintances return from a trip to London and I ask them how it was, the first thing they say is "expensive".  ;D
It's expensive due to the dollar, in general it's rather cheap in London.

Rich, i think both cities are quite comparable from a tourist point of view, central london vs central moscow.

Sure if you know where you're going and can be bothered to make the effort to travel you can find things cheaper, but if you're in the moment and in the heat of tourist excitement you tend to stick to what's local, and that tends to be overpriced.

As for cost of living, it really depends on the quality of lifestyle and the type of lifestyle you require, surely!!    :hidechair:
I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're gonna feel all day - Frank Sinatra

Offline Mikeav8r

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Re: Re: Cost of living in Russia
« Reply #22 on: December 05, 2013, 04:22:25 PM »
I think it is a given, whether one has lived there or not, that Moscow and St. Petersburg are more expensive than Kiev and Odessa.  It really makes no difference what the salaries are to a foreigner traveling to visit one or more of the cities as they will not be living there.  Relatively speaking, to a person with a fixed income from the west, travel to Moscow will set you back further than to Kiev.

I noticed St. Petersburg was on par with San Francisco as far as cost goes and will get a feel for Moscow in a few weeks.  Granted, this thread is on the topic of living in Russia, but as others have mentioned UT, the first few months, or more, other than housing, would pretty much be on par with tourist prices until you get a feel for the lay of the land so to speak.

Anyone that wants to start listing the "non-tourist" establishments, I have a pen and paper at the ready  :)
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Offline molly35ru

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Re: Re: Cost of living in Russia
« Reply #23 on: December 05, 2013, 09:05:31 PM »
One of the reasons Ukraine appeals to me is that the people, at least the western Ukrainians, are not mindless automatons, used to kowtowing to authoritarian leaders since the invasion of the Mongols followed by the rise of the Duchy of Muscovy, morphing into the centuries long fascistic-style rule of Tsars and soviet commissars and Putin.

Bravo, CC3. Insulting the population of the whole country?  Good job! :thumbsup: Almost made me speechless.
Words that are said in anger can rarely be taken back so be mindful what you say.

Online andrewfi

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Re: Re: Cost of living in Russia
« Reply #24 on: December 06, 2013, 05:17:33 AM »
Foreigners paying extra is pretty normal across the world. Actually in Russia doing so, with certain limited exceptions, is illegal.
El Guero mentioned some of the techniques used around the world and just as around the world, over time those 'tourist taxes' tend to decrease.

How many Florida residents pay the same price to go to the theme parks as incomers from out of state? I doubt that there are many, certainly not if they live in the locale of the parks. There's all sorts of discount programs, coupons and giveaways that only locals are likely to pick up on (and a very few 'educated' tourists). Same for restaurants and other attractions.
...everything ends always well; if it’s still bad, then it’s not the end!


 

 

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