Interpreters: The Do's and Don'ts, Misconceptions, Stereotypes, etc.

[Stirlitz]

I feel we lack a thread like that. I will be explaining some points that so many guys fail to realize, even those with a lot of experience. Feel free to ask questions and post your experience but please stay on topic.

So, today’s lesson is:

A. When Talking to Someone Using Interpreter Look at This Person!

It is simple. Just think: who are you talking to actually? The interpreter is NOT part of the conversation. He or she is someone to help but not take part in it. You are talking to someone else, not the interpreter. So, if you normally look at the person you are talking to, just do the same. Fortunately, words can reach your ears even if the speaker is not looking at you. And you do not have to look at someone in order for them to hear you (as long as the conversation is running).

Advantages of this approach:

- you take the interpreter out of your conversation without making them go away. The stay but they only do their job and are not part of your communication.
- it is a good way to break the ice and become closer to the woman as she starts to take you as someone who is talking to her directly, not someone who is there and she is told what you say by someone else.
- you get a chance to feel the other person, estimate/evaluate them and tune to their wave (as you are not distracted).

Disadvantages:

- you may get carried away and forget about the 3rd person and do or say things that you would normally only do privately

B. Don’t Use "Tell her" or "Ask her"!

This is a consequence of part A. If you use silly phrases like this you always bring up the idea that there are 3 of you, and the 3rd person is not someone really close like mother or child, which makes one a bit awkward. By using this you stress that you are not talking directly. Even if the lady does not get it, you yourself would feel aloof from her because you will constantly be reminding yourself it is not eye-to-eye.

So, in a nutshell a professional interpreter is translating at the background. You do not have to look at him and even wait. You just talk and listen to the words. Don’t worry if they sound from aside and not directly from the lady. It does not matter. All that matters is you and her. Interpreters, birds, honking or someone shouting nearby is nothing but background. Don’t let it into your communication too much.

[Manny]

B. Don’t Use "Tell her" or "Ask her"!

This is something I am guilty of. I meet various Russians in Estonia and either my pal Aleksei or my wife translates the complex stuff (depending which one happens to be there). But I do tend to look at the Russian speaker and say "Tell him this..........." which kind of excludes the person you are talking to from the conversation a little, and is probably quite rude.

Its a habit that can be hard to break. I was brought up to "look at the person talking to you"; when using an interpreter, you need to look at the subject of the conversation and not always the one talking.

[Vinnvinny]

Has anyone actually met a lady with whom the initial meetings were conducted via an Interpretor and the relationship eventually proceeded to marriage?

[erudite]

I have and I will be married next year to my fiancee from Kharkov. The translator is giving English lessons in addition to some heavy studying on the lady's part on her own. The progress is quite remarkable and all of this began with a translator that you are not so much in favor of in Kharkov.  I will leave Dallas on November 22 for Kharkov.

And I have a friend from Texas who also met his fiancee the same way in Kharkov and used the same translator. She is now with him in El Paso and they will be married on Saturday, November 20. I was invited to thier wedding but cannot attend since I am preparing to leave on Monday.

[dbneeley]

Has anyone actually met a lady with whom the initial meetings were conducted via an Interpretor and the relationship eventually proceeded to marriage?

I was one. As it's coming up on nine years, I think it may last...

David

[mendeleyev]

Stirlitz, what a great topic idea!

A question...if a guy isn't certain that his meaning is being correctly translated (based on his lady's body language or facial expressions, etc) what should he do? Are there any clues for a man to know that his conversation is being correctly translated?

[erudite]

If you know your translator well or have verified their veracity, they will be accurate for you in my experience.  I guess she is and was because my relationship has flourished.

[mendeleyev]

You've been fortunate and congrats by the way on your relationship.  

I've sat in many interviews where an official translator is in use and have politely rephrased something, or asked the translator to rephrase, because I knew the first translation had missed something in the idea being communicated.

You can see this often with politicans who speak multiple languages. President Medvedev is more than capable in English but diplomatic protocol calls for use of an official translator(s). He is not afraid to rephrase or restate something that a highly trained translator has missed. Knowledge of both languages is an advantage that is missing for guys who don't understand much Russian and are therefore dependent on an Interpreter to get it right.

Therein lies my question to Stirlitz: If you suspect something was missing or misunderstood, are there any clues for a man to know that his conversation is being correctly translated?

[dbneeley]

If you know your translator well or have verified their veracity, they will be accurate for you in my experience.  I guess she is and was because my relationship has flourished.

If you don't understand the language, how can you possibly know how accurate they are being?

I have had correspondence with a number of professional translators regarding the finer points of English, for example, when they have asked for better explanations for a word or, more often, a phrase, than they have found. This is because my university degree is in English and I spent many years as a writer and editor--beginning with my first professional writing job when I was hired a couple weeks after my 16th birthday to write commercials for a radio/TV station.

Even those translators who are highly trained and very talented are occasionally at a loss, especially if they have not lived for substantial periods in the society of those for whom they are translating. There are many colloquial terms that are especially difficult to translate.

(I am not referring to Stirlitz, by the way,with whom I have not corresponded off-list. Obviously, his written English is superb. Since we have not spoken, I can only assume his spoken English is equally good.)

I was watching a couple of Youtube clips just yesterday of interviews with Hugh Laurie--who does an incredible American accent in his role as "House M.D." In one of these in particular he was comparing colloquial expressions common in Britain with some from America in an interview on a talk show. He had no clue about those particular American slang expressions, and Ellen deGeneris had no idea about the British ones.

This illustrates why men who use translators---either human or machine based--do well to avoid colloquialisms as much as possible and stick to standard words and simple grammar.

At the Donetsk airport a couple months ago, I met a  young Ukrainian lady who had a phenomenal command of English with what sounded like a purely British accent. She was taught by English teachers schooled in Britain, as it happens, and she appeared to have a terrific ear for accent. I spoke with her for five minutes before I tumbled on to the fact that she is, in fact, Ukrainian. That is exceedingly rare, as you might imagine.

David

[erudite]

If you know your translator well or have verified their veracity, they will be accurate for you in my experience.  I guess she is and was because my relationship has flourished.

If you don't understand the language, how can you possibly know how accurate they are being?

DB Neeley:
You obviously miss the meaning of my posting. I state if you KNOW the translator or have verified their veracity. Which is meant to convey that you have worked with them previously and had good experiences OR you have done your homework with making sure that they have done good work with someone else. 

[Link]

In my personal limited experience I will heavily recommend to learn as much Russian as possible (if possible try to master it) in order to get rid of translators because when dealing with translators besides it is an uncomfortable situation to not be able to communicate without his help you can also end in a very vulnerable situation is the "translator" is not a decent person. For example some cases involve a Soviet girl hiring a male Soviet translator to speak with her western "friend" when in reality the translator is the local "boyfriend" of the Soviet girl trying to leech as much cash and gifts out of that poor Western naive fool. Other less nasty but equally not ethic behaviors from part of the translator would include to translator in an incorrect way or miss some red flags in order to encourage you to keep talking to a particular girl so you will need to continue hire his/her services.

It is true Russian language is not that easy but neither is impossible to learn, so any Chap or Fellow who might get involved in those endeavors (from any nationality or country) might have to accept the fact he will have to learn some Russian sooner or later. The first mistake I made when I entered in such dynamics was to approach the f. Soviet Union without knowing some of the local language, a lot of pain situations and red flags I could have avoided if back then I had the small but valuable knowledge of both Russian culture and Russian language, despite that I still need to continue to learn as much as possible at every opportunity because despite I made an impressive progress in the last few years (I do not need a translator anymore to talk to Soviet girls) still I cannot match a native speaker in particular things that only a person who is a native Russian speaker and had lived several years in the f. Soviet Union know.

There may be some ethical and professional translators out there in there in the f. Soviet Union but the problem is where to find them? as in the meantime the average western fellow might be expose to a LOT of abuse from local unethical Soviet women and/or Western Service Providers related to the MOB industry (agencies, translators, gift sellers, etc) who will try to get advantage of his vulnerability and naiveness.  

[dbneeley]

If you know your translator well or have verified their veracity, they will be accurate for you in my experience.  I guess she is and was because my relationship has flourished.

If you don't understand the language, how can you possibly know how accurate they are being?

DB Neeley:
You obviously miss the meaning of my posting. I state if you KNOW the translator or have verified their veracity. Which is meant to convey that you have worked with them previously and had good experiences OR you have done your homework with making sure that they have done good work with someone else. 

"Working with someone before" or "having done good work with someone else" are fine as far as they go--but you still cannot know how accurate their translations were--in the end  you must just trust them.

I know several translators whom I believe are absolutely top notch, including the lady my wife used originally. She is now an English teacher in Kiev--and based upon some extremely subtle and detailed queries over the years on some very fine points of English, she has an interest in continuously upgrading her understanding.

On the other end of the spectrum, there are many translators who lack much subtlety in English, and who make fairly pedestrian mistakes even in public posts on English language RW lists. I am sure they are probably fine for routine translation tasks for the average person--but I would not vouch for their command of the language for the most sensitive or delicate translation tasks.

The first one, I have known for ten years so I have a rather extensive understanding of her mastery of the language. I cannot imagine a translation task outside of some highly technical things where she has no experience that would present a challenge for her.

Your description, though, seems to expect a much lower level of experience and where you may have little true ability to go on more than a general idea that things were okay with the service you have received.

Still, you did not say "skill" or "knowledge"--you keep referring to "veracity"--which is truthfulness. Personally, I have not heard of any professional translator however skilled who has had much of a problem with telling the truth. A few employed by agencies, rightly enough--but the bulk of them I would hardly class as "professional" as, say, Stirlitz is.

Meanwhile, we'll see how your situation develops. If you are fortunate, it may go well.

David

[Stirlitz]

A question...if a guy isn't certain that his meaning is being correctly translated (based on his lady's body language or facial expressions, etc) what should he do? Are there any clues for a man to know that his conversation is being correctly translated?

Try to elaborate. For example, if you suspect something that you say was poorly translated, translated with mistakes or not translated at all, start speaking more about this topic referring a lot to what you just said what you think was missed. You will see the confusion of the translator and the woman.

For example some cases involve a Soviet girl hiring a male Soviet translator to speak with her western "friend" when in reality the translator is the local "boyfriend" of the Soviet girl trying to leech as much cash and gifts out of that poor Western naive fool. Other less nasty but equally not ethic behaviors from part of the translator would include to translator in an incorrect way or miss some red flags in order to encourage you to keep talking to a particular girl so you will need to continue hire his/her services.

Is it your actual experience or are you speculating?

[B.B.]

(I am not referring to Stirlitz, by the way,with whom I have not corresponded off-list. Obviously, his written English is superb. Since we have not spoken, I can only assume his spoken English is equally good.)

N.B.  I have met Stirlitz personally, as he and I had lunch together one day a few years ago when I happened to be in Odessa.  His spoken English is excellent.  As I recall, he did not even have much of an accent (although this was a few years ago, so I am unlike to remember, either way).

B/B

[B.B.]

There may be some ethical and professional translators out there in there in the f. Soviet Union but the problem is where to find them? as in the meantime the average western fellow might be expose to a LOT of abuse from local unethical Soviet women and/or Western Service Providers related to the MOB industry (agencies, translators, gift sellers, etc) who will try to get advantage of his vulnerability and naiveness.  

This is an excellent reason to utilize translators used and recommended by fellow board members.

B/B

[Link]

For example some cases involve a Soviet girl hiring a male Soviet translator to speak with her western "friend" when in reality the translator is the local "boyfriend" of the Soviet girl trying to leech as much cash and gifts out of that poor Western naive fool. Other less nasty but equally not ethic behaviors from part of the translator would include to translator in an incorrect way or miss some red flags in order to encourage you to keep talking to a particular girl so you will need to continue hire his/her services.

Is it your actual experience or are you speculating?

Personal experience from myself and other friends/ members in similar related forums

[nicknick]

Even those translators who are highly trained and very talented are occasionally at a loss, especially if they have not lived for substantial periods in the society of those for whom they are translating. There are many colloquial terms that are especially difficult to translate.


I was watching a couple of Youtube clips just yesterday of interviews with Hugh Laurie--who does an incredible American accent in his role as "House M.D." In one of these in particular he was comparing colloquial expressions common in Britain with some from America in an interview on a talk show. He had no clue about those particular American slang expressions, and Ellen deGeneris had no idea about the British ones.

This illustrates why men who use translators---either human or machine based--do well to avoid colloquialisms as much as possible and stick to standard words and simple grammar.

At the Donetsk airport a couple months ago, I met a  young Ukrainian lady who had a phenomenal command of English with what sounded like a purely British accent. She was taught by English teachers schooled in Britain, as it happens, and she appeared to have a terrific ear for accent. I spoke with her for five minutes before I tumbled on to the fact that she is, in fact, Ukrainian. That is exceedingly rare, as you might imagine.

David

I had a similar experience with an interpreter that I had the first time that I had a work assignment in Russia.  She spoke English with such a real American accent, at least to my ears, that initially I thought she was actually American.

Although she was, of course, Russian she had lived and studied in America for a few years.  The real problem for me was that she used a lot of American colloquialisms that I had no idea what they meant , as you mention above about Hugh Laurie and Ellen deGeneris.  Even down to very basic things like simple words for different foods we had problems, for example when I said that I wanted to buy some spring onions we ended up having a long conversation about this and it turned out that the American word is scallions - at least I think it is.

On another occasion we were visiting a small city just north of Moscow and she said that we were just going to go into the downtown.  I thought to myself, what on earth is that.  Is it some sort of South African type shanty town area.  But it turns out that it's just an American phrase meaning something like city centre.

I think that I had more problems translating American into English than anything else on my first visit to Russia.

[2tallbill]

I feel we lack a thread like that. I will be explaining some points that so many guys fail to reali
A. When Talking to Someone Using Interpreter Look at This Person!

Yes I agree look at the person you are trying to communicate with. 80% of communication
is non verbal, so looking at the person when you say something or when she answers can
greatly help with communication. Stirlitz is a good enough looking guy but wouldn't you rather
look at a cute girl ?

The time to look at the translator is when you are asking the translator a question.
Like Stirlitz how are we doing on time? etc. but I would recommend asking the girl
most of the questions and letting the translator translate the answers. Just because
the translator knows the answer doesn't mean you shouldn't give the girl a crack at
it.

Just my two kopecks

Bill

[Stirlitz]

Thank you B/B. I am afraid I still have a heavy accent. It is difficult to get rid of it when you live here. I have never been to an English-speaking country not to mention living there.

Link

That sounds a bit unusual to me. Not impossible but I am used to stories about dating agencies and their poor "interpreters" the ladies are 'comfortable with'. That’s the usual scam or set-up or whatever you call it. It would be interesting to hear your story in detail.

[Link]

Thank you B/B. I am afraid I still have a heavy accent. It is difficult to get rid of it when you live here. I have never been to an English-speaking country not to mention living there.

Link

That sounds a bit unusual to me. Not impossible but I am used to stories about dating agencies and their poor "interpreters" the ladies are 'comfortable with'. That’s the usual scam or set-up or whatever you call it. It would be interesting to hear your story in detail.

Well I do not want to dig out a lot about that since it happened a couple of years ago, the trip report is here in RUA called "Report from Penza Russia" it was the first time I've went to Russia so I did not spoke the language and I was very naive regarding f. Soviet Union endeavors. You can read it in order to have a background of the situation, I've left it incomplete in order to not cause polemic after the result I've got but summarizing the aspect related to the local Soviet translator:

That girl arranged/hired a local male Soviet translator to help to communicate with her and the family

The guy overall did apparently more or less a good job at first impression but......

The translator and the girl were constantly steering to each other's eyes and sometimes laughing in a suspicious way situation that I did not like and made me uncomfortable, I've used the services of the translator the first day only

The second day I dismissed the services of the translator, when I've arrived to the girl's house, the girl was very upset and angry because I did that.. I did not paid attention though and I thought it was normal since the guy was apparently well known by her

Some months ago after the incident a friend in Vkontakte who had watched and followed my situation at the time, told me to take a look to some photos of that girl, situation that I've refused because I wanted that to be "case closed " anyway she heavily insisted because according to my friend, that Russian girl was in photos making out and hold by a particular guy that was the local Soviet translator, I've watched the photos of the girl with the guy and indeed the guy was the local Soviet translator she hired to me.

In those photos she was making out (kiss mouth to mouth, holding herself with the guy and stuff like that) with the local Soviet male translator, and I am pretty sure those photos were taken with a particular "digital camera"  she leeched from my stupidity and naiveness.

I've have a friend from the UK and another from Netherlands who had considerable more difficult and dramatic experience regarding Soviet women in Ukraine that used local translators who were actually their boyfriends/lovers in order to leech as much cash and gifts laughing at the same time of the naiveness of their poor western fools. I've also read similar unpleasant experiences of Americans in forums like this one regarding similar issues in Ukraine, Russia and the f. Soviet Union.

There's nothing that replaces the knowledge of the local language (Russian) and the skills to be able to defend ourselves on our own without the need of intermediaries.

[AvHdB]

Link,

It would seem common sense would dictate that the translator is found by you and works for you. What you say earlier if you are linguistically gifted than learning the language is a huge benefit.

As for Stirlitz's skills his spoken English is quiet balanced as far as accent and his translations, (I have checked twice) are accurate. Plus he has a sense of humour which helps when doing this sort of work.

For a non native speaker to become fluent in a language is a gift. I have helped two professional members here with translations plus two other translators one in Czech Republic and one in Croatia. In one case they were asking about a colloquial Australian expression where I had no idea. The other was amusing, shall we say Brahmin manner against the wildcatters "style".

On a different web site it has lead to a ongoing discussion; what is English?

AvHdB

[Brasscasing]

There were several off topic comments on this thread that have been moved in to the Off-Topic room.

Thanks.

Brass

[Stirlitz]

That girl arranged/hired a local male Soviet translator to help to communicate with her and the family

I did not even need to read further. Here comes another important point of this thread:

ALWAYS hire your own translator.

Do not use a translator suggested or arranged by someone you are going to meet. It is OK to use a translator recommended by a person who has nothing to do with your trip and is disinterested. In fact, it is actually best to have it this way. But it should not come from a person who you are seeing or who is making other arrangements (a dating agency, etc.). This way, at least, if you have trouble or suspect something with a certain party here in the FSU you know that your translator is most likely not part of this network or scam and can be more or less trusted. It's like not putting all the eggs in one basket. This also helps to deal with a situation when a dating agency fakes up letters and the woman is just a dummy who has not written a letter to you and has not read yours. If you use the agency interpreter you never know. If you use a third party translator you may get an idea of what's going on from another perspective.

Unfortunately most dating agencies do their best to thrust their interpreters on you. The interpreters do have an advantage of being cheap. But I fail to think of one more advantage. There are more disadvantages. Besides what's mentioned in the previous paragraph I can tell you from my experience that most agency interpreters are not professional. Of course, it depends on what you call professional. If you are OK with translation software that makes many people laugh you are probably happy with an interpreter who can speak a little in broken English and cannot translate many things properly. This is not surprising as ALL the agency interpreters are young girls, usually students, who do not make a living by this. This is a side income, they like an opportunity to practice their English and make some pocket money, so they can afford working for a low payment. It is even lower than you think, I will explain later. But you must realize that a true professional would charge much more. However, many professionals do not take this kind of work seriously while agencies take too much of the fees, so it is next to impossible to meet a real pro in a dating agency. Thus many men think that the going fee for an interpreter should be $10 or 15 an hour and jump when they learn how much another interpreter charges. But let me ask you: when you need to fix a tooth do you go to a dentist with all the degrees and certificates or do you invite a college student? However, it is just a tooth, and when you date you are looking for an entire person to spend your life with, and extracting this person from your life if it does not work out would be much more painful than pulling out a tooth that an amateur failed to stop properly. It is up to you eventually but I am surprised to say the least!!!

There is a question though boiling in many's minds I am sure: why am I involved in this business then? To be frank, I am not sure. For some reason it happens this way. The majority of my clients are looking for a wife in Ukraine. I do not like this situation. But I do not dislike it either. I just take it as it is. My motto is never refuse a job if it is not utterly illegal, is paid well and not too hard (like unloading a truck full of stones with bare hands). So whatever is required I see how much I can make, then I see if I can carry out this job and then… unless it implies murder, for example, I am game for anything. I used to fix furniture many years ago, I was a guard, a driver, etc. Now English and my other skills of searching and arranging work better for me. So, if I have a potential client who is looking for women, if he agrees to pay my fees, I am happy to work for him. And, as I am professional, I do not give a damn how much students at dating agencies charge. If they charge this, OK. But these are my fees and they are the same for everybody: businessmen, tourists, people searching for relatives and ancestry here, wife seekers, anyone.

Also, I translate a lot of texts so interpreting is not my only income.

But I digress. Now let's return to agency interpreters. Once again I stress that it is important to hire your own interpreter. As some of the agency 'interpreters' confessed when you pay their fee they have to share it with the agency (you expect this) and with the girl you are dating (this may come a little less pleasant to many). So, if you pay $15 an hour your 'girlfriend' is also paid by you for dating you. Whether or not you like it and are OK or happy with it is up to you. Personally I would not be dating a girl who is paid for each hour she spends with me simply because I do not know for sure if she is there because she likes me or because this is her job and 'nothing personal'? So, always HIRE YOUR OWN INTERPRETER.

[2tallbill]

erudite and dneely,

ALWAYS hire your own translator.

+1

I know that a lot of people hire a college girl to be a translator
because she is cheaper and often times not too bad on the eyes.

I recommend NOT doing that. The last thing you need to be doing is
get caught checking out the popka on your translator while you are
trying to see if you have chemistry with the girl you are meeting.

Next few college girls have much real world translating experience.
They were taught English by non Native English speakers and as a
result know very little about slang and translating difficult topics.

The only way for a translator to learn these various things is through
experience. A 20 year old college girl unless she lived abroad simply
doesn't have it.

Just my two kopecks,

Bill

[AvHdB]

My thoughts and experiences; I worked with one college 21 year woman translator in Nikolayev. This was interesting when we set up the initial meeting the woman who I had planned to meet was to shy and did not arrive. I spent about an hour with her. Her English was in fact perfect, she spoke in addition to English both Russian and Ukraine as well as very good French and was a native Armenian speaker. So how come her French and English were so advanced she was aupair in both France and LA and had seen a fair amount of the United States in two years.

I did eventually meet the woman but nothing developed and I spent a fair amount of time with the translator T. and even had return to Nikolayev and the Vereschaggin museum. Where T. helped with a loan to Groningen.

When I was in Sumy I worked with the woman translator for the woman that I wrote to there. She was kind but I also think naive and could not understand the difficulties and ghosts that the woman I was writing to had/has.

With these two experiences I am strongly of the opinion the man should organize and pay for the translator.

But now I come to the question is it better to work with a male or a female translator?

Will the woman that you are interested in be more honest to a person of the same sex?

I have been told that Slavic woman will feel very uncomfortable in a meeting with two men.

There are women in the former Soviet Union who for what ever reason want to leave, (mostly on sites such as Elena's Models, Russian Woman and A Foreign Affair) but there are also many women who just want to sushi or worse the man.

And there others that you write to on sites such as Mamba or Love Planet who have not considered a relationship with a man from a different culture. My guess is and I would see the translator as some one who is helping you present and sell a product namely your self. I realize this might offend some but this is my opinion. But in fact if you go out to church dressed piously or if you go to the local pub having a few pints at £ 2,60 each or an trendy bar where the mixed drinks are € 20,= & combine pear juice with champagne and Cointreau you are none the less searching for something. What you get depends on luck and your skills.

But if you have some one helping and assisting in your quest I believe your chances of success increase. So my advice pick your translator wisely and hope for the best.

AvHdB