The Value of Names, E-Mail Addresses and Photos

[ScottJaySplendid]

In trying to determine if a correspondent is a scammer (do not assume the correspondent is a woman), what is the value of "her" name, e-mail address or photo?

E-MAIL ADDRESSES
All of these are fungible.  The value of the second -- an e-mail address -- lies in whether it has been used before.  If it has been, by a known scammer, then that is who you are writing to.

NAMES
As for names, it's not as easy.  A lot of women in the FSU, a group of countries with a population approaching that of the US, share similar names.  And there are variations when transliterating those names from Russian or Ukrainian, or another native language, to English. 

In Russian, for example, everything is spelled "WYSIWYG" -- i.e.,phonetically.  That's not the case in the English language.  (Indeed, the "spelling bee" is an almost unique American and British institution.  Every other language rather consistently spells its words.  The French, of course, consistently spell and pronounce their words, but do so inscrutably.) 

Since lots of women may share the same name, a person who is a scammer may use a name that a legitimate woman will also use.  So, if you get a Google hit on a name, that's only preliminary.  Addresses coupled with names are better, but remember the problem of "identity fraud" in the west.

PHOTOS
Photos are often stolen.  There are a few poor FSUW whose photos are being passed off by scammers as them.  So it's possible that a woman, whose photo has been identified as that of a known scammer, is actually real.

But as soon as a photo (or suite of photos) is used enough, it will be discarded and a new photo or suite of photos will take its place.

CONCLUSION
None of these tools is very useful in determining if your correspondent is a scammer, since as soon as a scammer is identified, he moves on to his next identity.  Thus, the sites that feature thousands of photos, e-mail addresses and names are pretty unmanageable.  The names are pretty much a worthless resource.  The photos generally impossible to get through in a coherent fashion.  The e-mail addresses, though, may be searchable in Google.  (See my post on Google as your best friend in this section.)

What is best is to understand what you are doing and what your correspondence is supposed to be doing -- getting to know each other.  If your correspondent wants to meet you before you get to know "her" (from telephone calls, exchanges of candid photos, and lots of well-translated letters), or expresses an emotional attachment to you before a face-to-face meeting, the odds are you are writing to a scammer.  If it's too "good" to be true, it's not true.  On the other hand, who would want to join up with a woman (on a permanent basis), who is so casual about serious things?

If the letters from your correspondent appear to be monologues that "she" is having with "herself," then you've probably gotten a scammer.  This may not be true for a letter to two, since many women will have "canned" introductory letters, too, but pretty soon you can tell if "her day," "her friend," "her family," "her job," "her musings," etc. are just him talking about his imaginary Internet persona.

In the end understanding what you are doing, what your correspondent is doing, and using Google is the best way to proceed.

[kyivtrip]

Hi everybody,

I've had e-mail correspondence with about 200 women in Ukraine and Russia for a little over two years.  I am no expert, but I have observed a few things.

Most of the women I have determined to be "legitimate" seem to use their real name in their e-mail address.  My correspondence with women who have made up names - like "gentledream" or "sexybabe" or "flower4u" have all deteriorated as it became more and more apparent that the letters from them were form letters and often failed to respond to direct questions.
The "legitimate" women I have written - and I have met a couple of dozen on my trips - respond diligently to my thoughts.

Even an e-mail address in English might be suspect.  It is an e-mail address designed to be used with foreign men. 
My time in Ukraine with real women has led me to believe that the average woman there would not "invent" a name for herself unless she has some compelling reason to.  Even if it is just an amateurish attempt at anonymity.

The "real" women I have met never heard of yahoo or gmail.  Their addresses are from Russian mail sites.  mail.ru; rambler.ru, etc
Almost all women who write to you first have an agenda.

My MO (and by no means my recommendation - it is just my method and mileage may vary)
Don't put all your eggs in one basket.  I use a mix of agencies and Internet sites.  In 2005 it took me about 6 weeks to compile a list of 30 potential "to visits".  I did this in the Spring and went to Kiev in September.  By September I had weeded the group down to 6.  3 wanted to get married.
I did the same thing in 2006 and "clicked" with the 3rd woman I met.  She was from Nikolayev and traveled 9 hours to come meet me in Yalta.  I went back in December and spent 3 weeks with her and we got engaged.  A tragic end, though - on February 1 she had a debilitating stroke and has still not recovered, fully.

As to pictures - they can be old or ...  Send flowers and get fresh pictures.
Best $50 you will ever spend if you are starting to get serious.

I ask for contact info right away.  Scammers will not give you a telephone number, as a rule.  I call women who can't speak English all the time ... and I can't speak Russian !!!  But ... we can hear each other's voice and verify that each other exist.  The phone call is, usually, the subject of their next e-mail.  Comforting, yes ?

David

[Chris]

Most of the women I have determined to be "legitimate" seem to use their real name in their e-mail address.  My correspondence with women who have made up names - like "gentledream" or "sexybabe" or "flower4u" have all deteriorated as it became more and more apparent that the letters from them were form letters and often failed to respond to direct questions.
The "legitimate" women I have written - and I have met a couple of dozen on my trips - respond diligently to my thoughts.

I agree with most of that, although like most things it is not something you can set in stone. But most women who I know are legit do use at least part of their whole name.

The "real" women I have met never heard of yahoo or gmail.  Their addresses are from Russian mail sites.  mail.ru; rambler.ru, etc

Sorry I don't agree I have met plenty good quality women from the FSU who have Yahoo/Hotmail etc accounts. Some because they have visited Western Countries, but not all of them.

Almost all women who write to you first have an agenda.

I strongly dissagree, I have communicated, spoken to and even met lots of good ladies who have written to me first. None of them were scammers. It depends on what sites you use and what you put in your profile and how you go about advertising yourself to them in general.

My MO (and by no means my recommendation - it is just my method and mileage may vary)
Don't put all your eggs in one basket.  I use a mix of agencies and Internet sites. 

Good advice.

I did the same thing in 2006 and "clicked" with the 3rd woman I met.  She was from Nikolayev and traveled 9 hours to come meet me in Yalta.  I went back in December and spent 3 weeks with her and we got engaged.  A tragic end, though - on February 1 she had a debilitating stroke and has still not recovered, fully.

I am very sorry to hear about this Kievtrip.

As to pictures - they can be old or ...  Send flowers and get fresh pictures.
Best $50 you will ever spend if you are starting to get serious.

Can depend on when the flowers are delivered, it is not foolproof as a lot of women don't always look their best first thing in the  morning.  Photos can be very misleading, good and bad.

I ask for contact info right away.  Scammers will not give you a telephone number, as a rule.  I call women who can't speak English all the time ... and I can't speak Russian !!!  But ... we can hear each other's voice and verify that each other exist.  The phone call is, usually, the subject of their next e-mail.  Comforting, yes ?

Great advice, something I always do after the 2nd or 3rd email if I like them. Never met a scammer yet who would give you a phone number. As you say, even if you cannot communicate it is amazing how sometimes you can spend an hour on the phone to someone when she doesn't speak any English.

[TomT]

I have spoken to a number of scammers on the telephone. In the past, telephone communication has been their Achilles’ heel but many have corrected this shortcoming.

[LoyalMan]

Hi everybody,

I've had e-mail correspondence with about 200 women in Ukraine and Russia for a little over two years.  I am no expert, but I have observed a few things.

Most of the women I have determined to be "legitimate" seem to use their real name in their e-mail address.  My correspondence with women who have made up names - like "gentledream" or "sexybabe" or "flower4u" have all deteriorated as it became more and more apparent that the letters from them were form letters and often failed to respond to direct questions.
The "legitimate" women I have written - and I have met a couple of dozen on my trips - respond diligently to my thoughts.

Even an e-mail address in English might be suspect.  It is an e-mail address designed to be used with foreign men. 
My time in Ukraine with real women has led me to believe that the average woman there would not "invent" a name for herself unless she has some compelling reason to.  Even if it is just an amateurish attempt at anonymity.

The "real" women I have met never heard of yahoo or gmail.  Their addresses are from Russian mail sites.  mail.ru; rambler.ru, etc
Almost all women who write to you first have an agenda.

My MO (and by no means my recommendation - it is just my method and mileage may vary)
Don't put all your eggs in one basket.  I use a mix of agencies and Internet sites.  In 2005 it took me about 6 weeks to compile a list of 30 potential "to visits".  I did this in the Spring and went to Kiev in September.  By September I had weeded the group down to 6.  3 wanted to get married.
I did the same thing in 2006 and "clicked" with the 3rd woman I met.  She was from Nikolayev and traveled 9 hours to come meet me in Yalta.  I went back in December and spent 3 weeks with her and we got engaged.  A tragic end, though - on February 1 she had a debilitating stroke and has still not recovered, fully.

As to pictures - they can be old or ...  Send flowers and get fresh pictures.
Best $50 you will ever spend if you are starting to get serious.

I ask for contact info right away.  Scammers will not give you a telephone number, as a rule.  I call women who can't speak English all the time ... and I can't speak Russian !!!  But ... we can hear each other's voice and verify that each other exist.  The phone call is, usually, the subject of their next e-mail.  Comforting, yes ?

David

You are an expert!!!

Your stat is the same as mine: only 1/10 of women is sincere!   

[Rasputin]

You are an expert!!!

Your stat is the same as mine: only 1/10 of women is sincere!   

I don't know. To be honest, I never once encountered any woman who was a scammer, and I probably contacted over a thousand women (i.e. sent them a quick message even if they did not reply). However, I did not use any agency sites or any sites where women were specifically looking for foreigners.

[b.j.]

The "real" women I have met never heard of yahoo or gmail.  Their addresses are from Russian mail sites.  mail.ru; rambler.ru, etc

I have written to and then met several girls with yahoo and gmail accounts.  Most of what you wrote is on target, but not this observation.

[anjutka]

The "real" women I have met never heard of yahoo or gmail.  Their addresses are from Russian mail sites.  mail.ru; rambler.ru, etc

I have written to and then met several girls with yahoo and gmail accounts.  Most of what you wrote is on target, but not this observation.

i have more than 5years  only yahoo, hotmail....no any .ru.....am i not real?))))))))))))))

[mobyone]

The "real" women I have met never heard of yahoo or gmail.  Their addresses are from Russian mail sites.  mail.ru; rambler.ru, etc

I have written to and then met several girls with yahoo and gmail accounts.  Most of what you wrote is on target, but not this observation.

..Hmm, just as well I corresponded with my Wife within Lucklovers.net's internal system first.

She has a yahoo.com email account,  as does her Mum, her mates, etc !! .. some of their emails addys are more than five years old..

Sorry, your advice is WAY off the mark.. you'll need to go deeper than an email address !

[Shadow]

Regarding names:

Last names in the FSU are something that tells a lot about the people's heritage. Russian names differ from Ukrainian, Georgian and other FSU state names. Another thing to notice is the use of male/female name versions.
Finally I have learned that of a Google search leads to a local celebrity, this may be an indication.

[mobyone]

Regarding names:

Last names in the FSU are something that tells a lot about the people's heritage. Russian names differ from Ukrainian, Georgian and other FSU state names. Another thing to notice is the use of male/female name versions.
Finally I have learned that of a Google search leads to a local celebrity, this may be an indication.

Hmm - OK Shadow.. I managed to date two women with names ending in "O" ( Ukrainian) - one of which is my wife - and she was in Siberia .. the other lady was also Russian, living in Russia - their ex-husbands had Ukrainian names but neither of them could tell me of UA heritage... in recent history

The FSU split up less than 20 years ago, and folk moved all over the place ... my wife's friends on her Russian equiv of "friendsreunited" ( finding old school mates) span 7 times zones !!

I don't think surnames give much of a clue, sorry. 

May be not first names either .. my wife's name is Italian - def. not Russian in origin ...her Dad just liked the name !

To the OP .. I don't think one needs to send flowers @ $50 / throw to test a woman's id / address or looks.. example

When I sent flowers to my wife -we were apart for our aniversary- the company delivered the flowers to her Mum's house -as that is where my wife was.. they didn't question the change of delivery address .. and I know my Wife would HATE for a stranger to take her photo... and might have refused to allow it .. would that make her a scammer ?!

There is no substitute for a good gut feeling - if you have "clicked" the lady will be pleased to hear from you, and politely explain WHY, if she can't talk ...

[Shadow]

msmoby, interesting that neither took their original name back after divorce, as they could have opted to do.
Remember that nothing is written in stone, but in several cases names have provided clues.
One of the listed scammers used a name that said for Russians 'I want your money'. Translated it looked like a normal name.

[mobyone]

msmoby, interesting that neither took their original name back after divorce, as they could have opted to do.
Remember that nothing is written in stone, but in several cases names have provided clues.
One of the listed scammers used a name that said for Russians 'I want your money'. Translated it looked like a normal name.

Hi Shadow

good reasons for that:

1/ This is Russia .. have you ANY idea of the paperwork/ time involved - my wife will not change the name on her Russian passports until they are near expiration - only one name change will be necessary - not two.

2/ They both have children - they wanted the child to have the same surname- while at school  My ex-wife has kept my surname, for the kids sake !

[mobyone]

Hi everybody,

I've had e-mail correspondence with about 200 women in Ukraine and Russia for a little over two years.  I am no expert, but I have observed a few things.

Most of the women I have determined to be "legitimate" seem to use their real name in their e-mail address.  My correspondence with women who have made up names - like "gentledream" or "sexybabe" or "flower4u" have all deteriorated as it became more and more apparent that the letters from them were form letters and often failed to respond to direct questions.
The "legitimate" women I have written - and I have met a couple of dozen on my trips - respond diligently to my thoughts.

Even an e-mail address in English might be suspect.  It is an e-mail address designed to be used with foreign men. 
My time in Ukraine with real women has led me to believe that the average woman there would not "invent" a name for herself unless she has some compelling reason to.  Even if it is just an amateurish attempt at anonymity.

The "real" women I have met never heard of yahoo or gmail.  Their addresses are from Russian mail sites.  mail.ru; rambler.ru, etc
Almost all women who write to you first have an agenda.

My MO (and by no means my recommendation - it is just my method and mileage may vary)
Don't put all your eggs in one basket.  I use a mix of agencies and Internet sites.  In 2005 it took me about 6 weeks to compile a list of 30 potential "to visits".  I did this in the Spring and went to Kiev in September.  By September I had weeded the group down to 6.  3 wanted to get married.
I did the same thing in 2006 and "clicked" with the 3rd woman I met.  She was from Nikolayev and traveled 9 hours to come meet me in Yalta.  I went back in December and spent 3 weeks with her and we got engaged.  A tragic end, though - on February 1 she had a debilitating stroke and has still not recovered, fully.

As to pictures - they can be old or ...  Send flowers and get fresh pictures.
Best $50 you will ever spend if you are starting to get serious.

I ask for contact info right away.  Scammers will not give you a telephone number, as a rule.  I call women who can't speak English all the time ... and I can't speak Russian !!!  But ... we can hear each other's voice and verify that each other exist.  The phone call is, usually, the subject of their next e-mail.  Comforting, yes ?

David

You are an expert!!!

Your stat is the same as mine: only 1/10 of women is sincere!   

Sorry to differ, guys... but .. my wife, mother-in-law. mother, sister, sister in law, ALL use emails that don't include their names ..

If you conclude only 1/10 FSUW are serious - I respectively suggest you may be looking in the wrong place or your search criteria need reevaluation.

There are many happily married guys whose FSU wives are aware of serious FSU women looking for a serious guy...

[Excedryn]

I am thinking the OP is listing some of the generalities that exist when dealing with the dreaded question of whether you are dealing with a scammer or not. It is not a secret I have used agencies and the women I have been contacted by through the agency I use predominately have not been scammers to my knowledge. The staff I think, which I believe has a decent track record dealing with this type of motive, does a very good job weeding out suspected scammers, GDs, and GCGs.
None of what he posted is rule of thumb but they are his observations. I can't dispute anything he said since I am not him but I can offer that most of the scammers I have encountered that have contacted me first have come from the major US connection websites like Match.com, eHarmony, and those of that ilk. The only thing I can say is from those contacts that the email addresses I received from those "ladies" all included names but who is to say whose name  Back then I did not have the insight to look up emails on Google much less "form letters" and I did use my gut feeling which definitely saved my wallet from some underhanded abuse!

Either way, from a newbies perspective attempting to get into the ballgame, so to speak, it can be quite daunting and having guidelines, if you will, can be quite helpful. It is when you apply them "guidlelines" like they are letters of law that you can become misguided and perhaps ruin something that might have been a fruitful endeavor. I will take "Gut Instinct" for $1000 Alex!

[Paul]

I am thinking the OP is listing some of the generalities that exist when dealing with the dreaded question of whether you are dealing with a scammer or not...

Splendid was one of the most intelligent men to ever grace any of these boards, and it is a pity that he no longer posts here. Exedryn, you will be doing yourself a huge favor if you try to find everything Splendid has written on this website and read it over a few times.

[nunya]

Paul you are correct about Jay (splendid). Why did he stop posting here?  Do you know where he is posting?  Feel free to send the info by pm.

[Manny]

Paul you are correct about Jay (splendid). Why did he stop posting here?  Do you know where he is posting?  Feel free to send the info by pm.

I like Scott Jay a lot. We still exchange e-mails occasionally. He decided that he was not going to pursue RW further from what I gather. He requested he be de-modded but remain as a member. He still looks in occasionally, I saw him online a few weeks ago actually.

[shakespear]

I like Scott Jay a lot. We still exchange e-mails occasionally. He decided that he was not going to pursue RW further from what I gather. He requested he be de-modded but remain as a member. He still looks in occasionally, I saw him online a few weeks ago actually.   

He was a crotchety old curmudgeon wasn't he?

[mendeleyev]

Sol, somewhere buried in RUA are a couple of threads which Chris and I put together regarding names. It doesn't hurt to know a little about how names are given and how they're used in Slavic cultures.

Just a quick example:

Svetlana. That is a real girls name. As you become more acquainted that will become more relaxed (the lady is the one who gives permission to change--don't take it upon yourself) to various nicknames such as Sveta, Lana, Svetochka, and any other 'intimate' name she gives you to use...Tochka, Svetka, Lanka, etc.

A girl who gives you the name Natasha might be a sincere lady, but at some point she should inform you that her name is really Nataliya as Natasha is a nickname. Same with Katya, a nickname for Ekaterina (Catherine) and there are lots of other examples.

Sometimes a guy will ask about a girls name and I'll see that the girl is using her middle name (it's always the female form of her fathers name) and the guy thinks its her first name or her family (last) name. Her middle name is called the Patronymic. In most cases the man has given his real name so she should "pony up" as well and give the man her real name: Saint (first) name-Patronymic name (middle)-family name if they're serious about getting to know each other.

If she doesn't either she is not yet ready to trust his intentions and that is a valid concern for a lady up to a certain point, or something is amiss. A common tactic by a scammer is to use a nickname as first name and a patronymic as last name because Western men are typically unaware of how Slavic names work.

But for goodness sake don't accuse a lady of being a scammer if she is simply exercising her right to be cautious about her personal information very early in a relationship with a foreign man who for all she knows could be a stalker or serial killer.

[alenika]

Sorry I don't agree I have met plenty good quality women from the FSU who have Yahoo/Hotmail etc accounts. Some because they have visited Western Countries, but not all of them.

Most who speak english use hotmail or gmail or yahoo mails. Speaking this about emails is equal to say that all RW who know English are scammers.

It can be true as a rule for women who don't know English though. That is, if man communicates only with women who speak only Russian he may get this impression about emails. This shows how valueable impressions or opinions of one man are. As every man has his own unique exprience and choice of women.

[alenika]

May be not first names either .. my wife's name is Italian - def. not Russian in origin ...her Dad just liked the name !

About names - I heard on tv today about some Misha didn't hear surname) froms omewhere abroad, from West. It was name for woman there. That is, someone there liked this Russian name and gave it to daughter :-) While Misha is male actually :-) Short from Mikhail = Michael.

[alenika]

Sorry to differ, guys... but .. my wife, mother-in-law. mother, sister, sister in law, ALL use emails that don't include their names ..

If you conclude only 1/10 FSUW are serious - I respectively suggest you may be looking in the wrong place or your search criteria need reevaluation.

I guess he was looking on type of mail used and on names used with emails - that's why found so many "scammers"  As it was his criteria for identifying scammers and rest 9 from 10 real RW used yahoo or gmail and don't use real name in email addresses

[alenika]

: Seems I replied to posts made 2 years ago :-)
Then I can only add that yes SCtottJay was a good contributions, hope he doesn't come because his real life is so nice and exciting that he has no time for forums :-)

[mike64]

scammer or not? I just got a few letters from a girl and  the 1st letter had 3 photos  of her  I shot a few emails back to her and just asked her for another photo and I got back a semi nasty reply and a refusal to send more pics ...... what do you all think I think scammer let me know your opinions please !